My friends and I often try to outwit each other with crazy situations in baseball to see who knows the correct call.

Tonight at a Little League game we had one I still don't know answer for.

One out runner on 1st when batter hits a "swinging bunt" between pitcher and first baseman. Pitcher makes good play and batter is out and runner on first advances to second.

Two outs now, but batter who was out at first does not go back to dugout and now occupies first and umps and our team doesn't notice.

Next batter hits ball to SS who then flips to second for the 3rd out. Meanwhile runner who was at second rounds 3rd and on to home. Batting teams coach then comes on field to point out that the force at second is not valid because that runner was out at first. Basically saying he can't be out twice...once at first and again on next play at second.

What's the proper call at this point?

Play was never live I would think.

Umps messed up. The pitch, hit, and run made after the other batter (who stayed on first) was out never should have occurred and since it did, was basically practice throws, if the player refuses to leave the field they would throw him out of the game in any other context (high school-college-etc).

In the end, that's what happened.

Moved runner who was on second back to second, batter back up and runner that was on first went back to dugout.

Then batter goes on to hit a double and run scores and then next guy gets a single and another run scores.

Lesson learned, but umps were completely confused and opposing coach never said a word until the out at second was a disadvantage to him...pretty shady if you ask me.

Delete umpires. Ban game.

I don't know the exact rule to back what I am saying, but the play just can't be live. Reset the base runner to how they should be, no pitch, and start from there.

On a much more transcendental note - and I am not trying to not come off as holier than thou but just have to say it - the fact that the other coach seems like he may have been angling for anything other than that is not a good example for little leaguers.

Well I might not be saying the right thing either, but after a play (consisting of a pitch that is either hit or not) and the resulting throws) the field of play is dead, I believe as signaled by until the pitcher has the ball and the home plate ump signals that "play is live" or something to the pitcher.

So all the infield throwing that occurs after an out isn't live play, if they throw the ball away during that time a runner cannot steal - I believe.

If the ump doesn't signal to the pitcher that play is live then other parts of baseball can not occur - bases can't be stolen, runners can't be tagged out. That's why the hidden ball trick doesn't really work.

That's what's odd about this. Play was dead and nobody noticed that batter out at first didn't go back to dugout, he simply stayed at first like he was safe. He was quiet about it and nobody noticed on our team or the ump.

Play then resumes with next batter and then the runner at first (who was out on previous play) is then out again on a force to second.

Do over. It's the only logical solution.

If there was an adult first base coach, he's likely getting ejected.

It's not a do over. And since time was never called between batters, there was never a dead ball situation that was wrongly put back in play.

Look at Rule 7.09(e) of your LL green book. It sounds like you have a retired runner who hindered or impeded a play being made on another runner. That other runner can be declared out because of the interference of his teammate.

No doubt, this typically happens during the same at bat, and not a following at bat.

Absent the runner who wrongly stayed at first, the fielders would have attempted to get the batter/runner out at first base on his batted ball, and not through a fielder's choice force out at second. So call the batter out. And if less than two outs, return the other runner to his base TOP.

I am still ejecting an adult base coach.

It was a bizarre situation and I can't tell if the runner and/or first base coach did it on purpose.

I've seen opposing coaches behave this way in the past, during optimist baseball games. Most coaches are honest great guys. Some, on the other hand, are aholes, no matter what they choose to do in life. I've decided that about 10% of the folks out there in the world are. Sometimes they decide to coach.

Wife who has more baseball knowledge than me (and I'm not ashamed of that) agrees that it was never actually a dead ball play, but instead batter interference.

Seems the same to me, but as the poster 2 above me said it's in the book.

I would not do anything to help the protesting coach. He caused the problem, his guy got out. I'm doing what's fair in that situation.

I saw something this weekend that I don't remember ever seeing. We play 12U and our 5 hole is a big strong kid who hit a rope back to the pitcher only it didn't hit the pitcher(thank goodness), but it hit the mound then bounced off the rubber and flew back over the catchers head and one hopped the back stop.

They continued the play(bases were loaded and everyone moved up a base), but in my head I'm thinking that if I'm in the other teams coach I may and try and claim that is a foul ball, which I believe based on the rules it would be. Does anyone see that scenario differently?

And here I thought it was only youth basketball coaches that acted shady!

Nevermind, I googled and the answer should have been Foul Ball.

No. The rubber on the mound is the only object between the foul lines that a ball can hit and still go foul.

What? Really?

What's the logic behind that?

Ball must stay in fair territory or establish itself in fair territory after passing first or 3rd Base. If it doesn't pass first or third base and goes foul without touching a defensive player, it's a foul ball.

Is it "pass" 1st or 3rd, because by that logic it could hit the front edge of either base and go into foul territory and still be foul.

If it hits the base it's fair...the base is in fair territory.

Similar to pylon marking the end zone in football.

The bump is in fair territory...

Yes it is, but if ball then rolls foul without touching anything else, it's foul.

The base is considered part of the foul line (which should actually be called the fair line)

I've seen lots of baseball in my life and I saw a situation this past spring I had neve seen before.

Bases clear. Kid walks and the 4th ball got past the catcher. The batter runs full speed to first, steps on the bag and runs past it just as if he had hit a ground ball in the infield. He make no attempt to run to second. He just turns around and is walking back to first base. The catcher throws the ball to first and the first baseman tags the runner before he gets back to the bag. The umpire calls him out.

Correct call?

Was the 4th pitch a ball or a strike?

If it was a strike, then yes, because the batter "stole" first... I think.

OBR: can over run on a walk without liability to be put out
FED: can over run on a walk but with liability to be put out
Rule set that game was under: ?

Here is a link with a post (Memphis's post at the bottom) citing the MLB Umpire Manual and the FED rules.

http://www.baseball-excellence.com/sbaseballforums/printthread.cfm?Forum=2&Topic=7246

It was a high school game here in Texas. Have no idea what rules they were playing under. Some of the parents on the hitting teams side (my side too) were going crazy. Since I had never seen that situation come up and had no idea, I didn't say anything even though I do express my opinion to umpires who make "bad" calls from time to time. One of the parents did a quick rules search and said he found that it was the correct call. In all my playing and watching, I had never seen that come up.

BBGigem said:

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I've seen lots of baseball in my life and I saw a situation this past spring I had neve seen before.

Bases clear. Kid walks and the 4th ball got past the catcher. The batter runs full speed to first, steps on the bag and runs past it just as if he had hit a ground ball in the infield. He make no attempt to run to second. He just turns around and is walking back to first base. The catcher throws the ball to first and the first baseman tags the runner before he gets back to the bag. The umpire calls him out.

Correct call?

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The better question is.....why did he run past the bag?

It's called a hard 90, not a hard 105!!!

I think it is the right call. His walk gets him to the base, not beyond. I don't think it is any different than the catcher throwing it to the pitcher, and the pitcher throwing it to first prior to stepping on the mound to get the runner who is leading off, out.

I think in that situation the batter should still be safe. The play is dead and doesn't resume until pitcher steps on rubber with the ball.

Depends on the rules.