So, it's the x's and the o's, not the Jimmies and the Joes" plan. It'll be fine. Fine is good. Can't win without shooters, imo. So that's a new box being checked.

Hope the young man is as likeable 6 years from now by "the group". If so, he succeeded.

bobinator said:

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I mean we could put some kind of parameters if people want. What would you suggest is a good bar for "working" here?

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Its your thread but the criteria for a successful coach should be the same for any basketball coach. Winning 2 tournament games in 6 yrs is not successful. Winning record in conference and making the tournament 2 of the first 4 yrs would be a good successful/not successful bar in my opinion.

bobinator said:

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I disagree a little bit here. Highest bid matters but you want a coach who can get a guy without being the absolute highest bid, whether that's because of rep of getting guys in the league, style of play, or whatever else.

Recruiting ability still matters.

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Bob, you've got to do more research. If you list out the college players NIL $ by player, you'll see that the best teams are spending the most. There's a reason the Yankees, Dodgers and Astros are always good every season. It's because they pay the royalty tax. We don't even have a royalty tax. We could drop 20M in NIL and be a dominant force. We have that kind of money too. That's the crazy thing with all of this. We have tons of money and still can't field competitive sports programs.

t - cam said:

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Sq 17 said:

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I agree with your assessment but thought my hypothetical was an interesting thought experiment.
Like I said in another thread I think it is very likely Buzz' agent was in discussions for a raise and an extension mid season
And when we decided that we were ok with Buzz leaving this is the kind of hire we should have expected
I am definitely a tourist on this board I lfollow college basketball about 3 months year and like engaging on Texans starting about 2/1 every year

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Most of TexAgs, not necessarily the basketball board posters, would rather sneak into the tournament and win a couple games than hover around the top 10 all year and crash out of the tournament early.

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Speak for yourself here. Not true from me and I've been a die hard since 2004 sitting front row every single game during my tenure in Aggieland. I go to every single home game still from Houston. Even the midweek games. It sucks to think that we won't have a dog in the fight for years now.

My only hope is that hopefully we didn't pay Buck too much and were holding $$$ for players.

justsomeguy said:

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t - cam said:

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Sq 17 said:

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I agree with your assessment but thought my hypothetical was an interesting thought experiment.
Like I said in another thread I think it is very likely Buzz' agent was in discussions for a raise and an extension mid season
And when we decided that we were ok with Buzz leaving this is the kind of hire we should have expected
I am definitely a tourist on this board I lfollow college basketball about 3 months year and like engaging on Texans starting about 2/1 every year

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Most of TexAgs, not necessarily the basketball board posters, would rather sneak into the tournament and win a couple games than hover around the top 10 all year and crash out of the tournament early.

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Speak for yourself here. Not true from me and I've been a die hard since 2004 sitting front row every single game during my tenure in Aggieland. I go to every single home game still from Houston. Even the midweek games. It sucks to think that we won't have a dog in the fight for years now.

My only hope is that hopefully we didn't pay Buck too much and were holding $$$ for players.

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I wasn't speaking for you.

I'd offer this as criteria for coaching success at A & M at this time . Subject to change as the program advances

-Makes ncaa tourney at least 3 out of every 5 yrs
-Top quarter of conference at least 2 of every 5 yrs
- No convicted felons on team or staff
- Hard to put a metric on ncaa tourney wins imo but I'd say incentivize coach and staff with bonuses for each round they get to past the first round… like x for sweet 16, 2x for elite 8, 3x for final four , 4x for championship game , and 5x for national title . I dunno what x would be but it's More for the hc and less for assistants . Maybe x is 25k for head coach and 25k split among the assistants as the coach deems appropriate?

Something else that some people complain about around here is coach/team engagement with fans to generate interest / attendance . Jmo winning generally solves this problem but I have to say not being full for the Auburn game does lead one to question if this is true . How much of this is on the coach and how
Much on the pr or Ad… I dunno? What I get out of the Bucky podcasts I have seen is he does this organically but maybe there is some component that should be a part of the contract? Perhaps some sort of attendance incentive?


Thoughts?

I like your list
Regularly in the Big Dance
Having guys that don't get arrested
& not being concerned with tourney wins because if We do the first two the third will happen

bennyboobooboo said:

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We were a top 5 program in the best conference in basketball. That's pole position.

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And yet we still had a head coach that couldn't or wouldn't run a legit offense.

OwensTX said:

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DukeMu said:

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Ags #1 said:

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It may work but define working? If he makes a sweet 16 or elite 8 he probably bounces.

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Only to another SEC school. The SEC is now the premier basketball league and will probably remain that way in the NIL era.

It's a gamble, but I did not have a MikeSyracuse CM Newton's son recommendation on my bingo card!

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It's been one year that the SEC has been the best, and if an SEC team doesn't win the natty it will have a question mark.

Plus, coaches don't think like that. If Auburn/Bama/UF etc stay as good as they are coaches will be open to the ACC or another league since it's an easier path. The Big Ten and Big 12 both would offer a slightly easier path while still having tons of Q1 opportunities, so to a coach wanting to win it all they might look like better options.

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The SEC has far better coaches up and down than the ACC today. That could change, but it will take about 5 years.

Ag-Yoakum95 said:

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CapCityAg89 said:

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Covid year aside, Buzz's first three full years were nada, NIT runner up, 1andDone. I expect better than that and Buzz inherited a pretty talented team (Bucky inherits McDermott … maybe). Consider that "works".

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You can send Buzz a thank you note for the current roster status. That was all him.

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Buzz looked around and said, "Dayum, not much talent left next year here. See ya!"

Glutoness pigs. That is all we are now.

I think you said plenty right there. You proved something for sure … just probably not what you think you proved.

bennyboobooboo said:

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Me. No chance this works. By works I mean he won't get further than Buzz did in his 5 years. I'll eat cow dung if we win a natty within the next 5 years.

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Natty?

How about if we make it past the sweet 16, something this school had never done?

justsomeguy said:

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Bob, you've got to do more research. If you list out the college players NIL $ by player, you'll see that the best teams are spending the most. There's a reason the Yankees, Dodgers and Astros are always good every season. It's because they pay the royalty tax. We don't even have a royalty tax. We could drop 20M in NIL and be a dominant force. We have that kind of money too. That's the crazy thing with all of this. We have tons of money and still can't field competitive sports programs.

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You rambled into my whole point. If it were as easy as just spending the most money we'd have playoff appearances in football, our baseball team wouldn't be terrible and the Yankees wouldn't be without a World Series championship in however long.

I also said it's not ALL about highest bidder. Obviously you still need to have money. But you need to spend it on the right guys, and you need to find ways to attract some players when maybe you aren't the absolute top bidder. You're not going to get a player if you're paying half of other teams, but if you're close but you've got a coach who can sell the program or prove he can make you a better player or put you in a style of ball where you're going to be featured that can be the difference.

There's still some skill and strategy to recruiting.

bu hired drew in a "no lose" situation. Hopefully this turns out the same (with the same long leash). He is similar in that he won't rock boat and fits.

I've been actively watching A&M basketball since BCG's first year so I've seen it all. So I really hope it works!

Knew you were a little skeptical on some other posts, what changed your mind?

BasketballCoach2015 said:

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Knew you were a little skeptical on some other posts, what changed your mind?

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anybody *****ing at this point is just pissed we let Beard get away. this is not our typical basketball hire though. seems completely different than Buzz, BK, or BCG (more defensive oriented coaches).

Even the Turd was more defensive minded

BasketballCoach2015 said:

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Even the Turd was more defensive minded

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Yeah, I forgot about him.

True though it is very similar to what Pitino has run and what Huggy Bear ran at Press Virginia.

Yeah I don't think it's a gimmick either I'm just saying it's a lot more rare.

No we'd prefer if you said less

dixichkn said:

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bennyboobooboo said:

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Me. No chance this works. By works I mean he won't get further than Buzz did in his 5 years. I'll eat cow dung if we win a natty within the next 5 years.

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Wow. Really going out on a limb with that last one.

With this total ground-up reset we're gonna have to do I'll be shocked if we even make the dance by year 3. Much less a natty. That said, I'm not disappointed in the hire at all. He's gonna have to pull a couple of hidden gems out of the portal immediately to help convince kids that BuckyBall is gonna work. It'll be like the tariffs going on right now. Ugly at first. But in the long run, don't be surprised if it works

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If it is the like the tariffs, there is a tiny chance it succeeds but most likely fails miserably destroying our program.

justsomeguy said:

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bobinator said:

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I disagree a little bit here. Highest bid matters but you want a coach who can get a guy without being the absolute highest bid, whether that's because of rep of getting guys in the league, style of play, or whatever else.

Recruiting ability still matters.

---

Bob, you've got to do more research. If you list out the college players NIL $ by player, you'll see that the best teams are spending the most. There's a reason the Yankees, Dodgers and Astros are always good every season. It's because they pay the royalty tax. We don't even have a royalty tax. We could drop 20M in NIL and be a dominant force. We have that kind of money too. That's the crazy thing with all of this. We have tons of money and still can't field competitive sports programs.

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I know this is a throw away line, but the Astros have (barely) exceeded the luxury tax threshold twice, paying less than 10 million in tax for the two seasons.

The Yankees and Dodgers have close to 30 years exceeding it between them, and north of $700 million in penalties. Last season alone the Dodgers and Yankees had $103 million and $62 million dollars respectively in luxury taxes levied upon them. 9 teams faced fines for living too well (the Astros at $6 million).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_luxury_tax#Teams
(Through 2021)

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/43082037/dodgers-mets-yankees-top-mlb-record-9-luxury-tax-offenders

I'll go on the record saying it won't work, even though I of course hope that it does.

Turgeon was an exciting hire that got asses into seats.

BK was BK. Not particularly exciting but better NCAAT results than Buzz

Buzz was an exciting hire who didn't get asses into seats.

Hard to think a mid major will be able to take a school/fanbase that doesn't prioritize basketball to the promised land.

I hope I'm wrong, but not really holding my breath