I'm not saying Kirk was bad. He was obviously good. I just don't think he's quite as good as some people seem to act like when we're doing a "remember some guys" type thread. But Law was that good. I'd probably argue that Law was even better than most people seem to remember.

Dude had Taylor's scoring average with Caruso's assist average and shot 6% better from 3 than even CJ Wilcher.

This Aggie team has been very clutch. People forget that others on that 2007 team were clutch as well. Also, that team would foul quite a bit. Would this team be the decent FT shooting team or the awful one?

bobinator said:

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I'm not saying Kirk was bad. He was obviously good. I just don't think he's quite as good as some people seem to act like when we're doing a "remember some guys" type thread. But Law was that good. I'd probably argue that Law was even better than most people seem to remember.

Dude had Taylor's scoring average with Caruso's assist average and shot 6% better from 3 than even CJ Wilcher.

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Yep. Senior year 18.1 ppg on 50/45 shooting and five assists per game. He was so good.

2006-2007 had a better back court and shooting.

IMO 2024-2025 has the better front court and better overall athleticism.

2006-2007 the better offensive team. 2024-2025 the better defensive team, but the gap between 2006-2007's offensive efficiency numbers a bit bigger than the gap between those two team's defensive efficiency numbers.

Both teams led by an excellent veteran college PG, but one of them (Taylor) is 'merely' a first team all-conference level player while the other (Law) was an All-American college player who got drafted at the end of that season 11th in the NBA draft.

Over a 7 game series, I think Law being a bit better than Taylor in the 'clutch' scorer role (and that is no disrespect to Taylor but Law was simply that good) and a higher confidence in the 2006-2007 team to more consistently manufacture some points against a great defense, I went with the 4-3 series win for 2006-2007 team in my OP.

Did anyone account for Buzz doing a great job on Acie, but letting Carter hit 7/9 3s?

I think a few of the games might stay in the 20s. Lots of hard nosed defense.

Carter's too much a known quantity. It would be Kirk or AK that lit us up.

bobinator said:

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Carter's too much a known quantity. It would be Kirk or AK that lit us up.

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Or Joe Jones could hit a three okay if you left him wide open.

Is the younger Buzz on the 2006-2007 staff going to be dropping hints via sign language to his older self about whatever play BCG has just drawn up? Does the older Buzz try to coerce his younger self for such insider advantages? How do we think the younger and older Buzzes would navigate this from an ethics standpoint?

And wouldn't it be cool to ask Buzz this thread's question over a beer somewhere, given he intimately knows both these two teams? Listen to him for a few minutes parse through the hypothetical matchups? Would Buzz chuckle at the suggestion BCG would have a notable coaching advantage or would he do his 'awe shucks, I'd have no chance against Coach' humble speech?

He'd get super hung up on which three point line was going to be used and start breaking down shot charts from 2007 to try and figure out if the shooting percentages would hold up.

bobinator said:

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I'm not saying Kirk was bad. He was obviously good. I just don't think he's quite as good as some people seem to act like when we're doing a "remember some guys" type thread. But Law was that good. I'd probably argue that Law was even better than most people seem to remember.

Dude had Taylor's scoring average with Caruso's assist average and shot 6% better from 3 than even CJ Wilcher.

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That shot that Acie made against tu was crazy because of how far he shot it. Flash forward to the present and it looks just about at the current 3 point line. Wade makes those kinds of shots regularly.

Wade has a quicker first step against most guards in the league right now. I really doubt BCG would have made Acie guard Wade; he would have put Kirk to guard Acie.

2007 didn't play the same type of defense that we do now. Carter might have a field day if they were able to get the ball to him.

2007 doesn't have anyone remotely as athletic as Solo except maybe Pompey.

Joe Jones could shoot better than any of our current bigs except for maybe Andy.

The benches would be a push: Sloan could score and maybe BD could too, but Solo/Andy/Carter are better defenders.

And Henry would get his shot blocked by just about everyone from the 2007 team.

Maybe a better sub-question is: are we grading the 2007 team high because of how far they went in the NCAAT?
We have good memories because they could compete against any one and because of how close we were to going to the Elite 8 and beyond. I'm sure Ohio St would have beaten us anyway but it would have been a fight nonetheless.

What if this team goes to E8, would that change anyone's mind?
I think it would. I wouldn't say that we'd forget about the 2007 team especially when a lot of us followed the team from those years, but this team would be the team to compare all other teams to in the past and future. They would become the new barometer.

If we took out the NCAAT results and judged them on the regular season, who wins?
This years team would win if anything because it will be more proven than the 2007 team. First team to score 50 wins and whoever wins the free throw contest, wins the game.

I remember feeling good back then for some reason about a matchup versus Ohio State.

But nobody was beating that Florida team that year. Nobody.

I did until I went to their game against Memphis and saw them in person.

we'll never know. I'd probably give the edge to this yrs version based mostly on Solo's defensive presence. There also wasn't an exact Andy Garcia analog on that team imo. Maybe some recency bias in there .

Someone brought up the 79-80 team which was my all time favorite and I felt like had a serious chance of winning the whole thing, however, I must regretfully admit that team was not as deep and athletic nor as consistent as this one. Today's cbb teams are so much more athletic imo.

Pumpkinhead said:

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I remember feeling good back then for some reason about a matchup versus Ohio State.

But nobody was beating that Florida team that year. Nobody.

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Then you were insane in the membrane

2007 Team would win that most nights
Law was way better than Taylor or phelps. He didnt have the stupid turnovers or dumb fouls.
Davis, Elonu, & AK. Jones that team actually ran an offense and if we leave Josh Carter open he wouldve hit 6 3's a game.
Both fun teams and the best two since 79-80.
Thats my opinion that team took care of the ball, just a fluke missed layup from final 8. I hope this team has that chance or deeper.

I think the AK/JJ high low game would own this team.
Would be fun to watch though

Man the years have been really good to Kirk and AK….

DaShi said:

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Man the years have been really good to Kirk and AK….

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I think AK is one of our more underrated players of all time, just only really was a major player for one season. 11.9 points, 6.3 rebounds, shot 56% from the floor. Excellent passer. Didn't shoot many threes but could hit them when he did (38%.)

Those are better single-season numbers than Bryan Davis, Chin Elonu, David Loubeau.

The only big men we've had who I'd say were definitely better than AK in the last 20 years are probably Joseph Jones, Tyler Davis and Robert Williams. You could probably make a case for Josh Nebo but I'd argue that AK's numbers would have been better if he was on a worse team like Nebo was.

Yeah, I think there is a bit of nostalgia effect going on here. It would be a very close game. Two great teams.

I think Payne is a better player than AK was. Better athlete, reasonably skilled on offense and a legit rim protector on defense. Then you got Andy, Coleman, and Solo.

Looking at front court stats, that 2006-2007 front court rotation was primarily Jones, AK, & Pompey…with a little bit of freshman Davis and Elonu sprinkled in.

2024-2025 gets the edge in the front court rotation IMO. Deeper in quality experience and generally more athletic.

On the otherhand, I'd rather have 2006-2007's primary backcourt and wing. Law, Kirk, Carter.

I think it's a toss up if it's one game. I'd probably even give the edge to this team because of how unconventional we are. But the OP said a 7 game series and I think that team just had way more options on offense than this team does and they'd open it up after they lost the first game.

Now again, the three point line is a little more than two feet further back than it was in 2007, but if we're just throwing that out and pretending like the 2007 team can shoot just as well under current rules, here's a simple stat that sums up my thoughts.

Everyone (assuming we're only talking heavy rotation players, more than about 10 mins per game) on the 2006-2007 team except Donald Sloan shoots threes better than everyone on 2024-25 team except CJ Wilcher. Even if you add Sloan in at 33% the only player other than Wilcher that shoots better than that is Taylor.

That's five players shooting AT LEAST 37.5% from 3 (Antanas' percentage) compared to only one shooting better than 35% (Wilcher.) We think of Wilcher as a sharp shooter at 40%, that team had Dominique Kirk at 39%, Joseph Jones at 40%, Law at 46% and Josh Carter at an absolutely insane 50%.

I think at his best Payne is better, no question. But you have to do it for at least a whole season to get full credit right? We can't just take Payne's recent highlights and compare that to AK's full season numbers.

AK could stretch the floor better and was a much better passer. Put another way AK was better at playing power forward provided you have a true center which that team did in Jones, Payne is better at playing center.

Memphis game AK left it all on the court he was awesome that game. My memory is bad but I thought he had 20 and 10 he was our best player that game.

Give me AK and Jones over Coleman and Payne 100/100. Not even close. Those guys passing and awareness on the offensive end is light years better than what we have now.

06-07 wins 4-1 in a seven game series. Much better offensive team and a push on defense. I see this years team turning to the ball over way too much against the old bcg defense.

fatdad84ag said:

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I think this team would not have much of a problem. The 06-07 players are all pushing 40 right now.

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It still doesn't feel like it was that long ago. But my knees ache every time I work out, so I guess it is.