Why cant Buzz recruit?

12,502 Views | 113 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by Aggie0956732
GrayMatter
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NowhereMan said:

Because making players into role models is more important here than making the final four.

Players go where they get watched.
I don't buy the first statement; Buzz gets guys that are coachable not knuckleheads nor guys who are one and done players. He needs to know that he can push them beyond their limit so that he can mold them into players. The videos that you see are when he's teaching life skills, but I guarantee you that he pushes them that much more on the court. Buzz maybe stubborn to a fault but don't mistake all his speeches and tweets as him solely focusing on those areas to win. He is smarter than he lets on.

Your 2nd statement: I don't think that is the sole reason players go to a certain program anymore. The NIL has changed that a little bit just as the portal. The chance that a player starts at one school and goes to another one after the first year is pretty high. High school recruits do what is in their best interest because there isn't a single road to get to the NBA these days.

One thing to add... I like that he recruits their families just as much as the player. He's fully aware that mom, dad, brother, sister, etc have a say in where that recruit choose to go. I think that builds a better foundation and a family type of environment where players won't want to leave.
bobinator
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Nope. Buzz doesn't care about winning. We're just a leadership academy.
frenchtoast
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Final Four is aiming too low. Anything less than championships is loser talk.
t - cam
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frenchtoast said:

Final Four is aiming too low. Anything less than championships is loser talk.


Than your issues are with the trev alberts and the donor base more so than buzz.
Aggie92ss
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Basketball rankings have always been tough and weird
bobinator
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One championship? Anyone can do that. Back to back or why even have a program.
frenchtoast
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I used the plural
AggByMarriage
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MarcAg said:

Quit looking at recruiting rankings. Start there

EXACTLY
If there is not a T-shirt for it, then it's NOT important.

Let's see:
Could I find a "NCAA Championship" T-shirt? Check that's important
Could I find a "Final Four" T-shirt? Check that's important.
Could I find a "SEC / ACC / Big East … Conference Champion" T-shirts? Check those are important.
Could I find "#1 Recruiting Class" T-shirt? Nope, never because it's NOT important.

MarcAg
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That made me laugh. But at the same time somebody from Aggieland Outfitters is reading this and now is mocking up ideas for recruiting ranking shirts as they will make any shirt they can think of.
85AustinAg
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I think common sense tells us where basketball NIL money is for Texas A&M. Somewhere behind Football and Baseball. I mean how many BMA's are basketball guys?
carl spacklers hat
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awschux said:

You are missing context. A poster replied to me to "stop looking at recruiting rankings". Thats why I said if someone would rather look at other metrics than rankings, then we can look at:

Draft picks (as a measure of quality of recruiting rather than 24/7 rankings).

OR

Sweet 16 appearances (as a measure of quality of recruiting rather than 24/7 rankings).

Regardless of the metric, recruiting service rankings, or number of draft picks produced, or number of sweet 16 appearances, Texas A&M does not recruit at a high enough level to achieve significant or long term success.


Lets reframe this as the question is sincere. What is needed for Buzz to be able to compete with Baylor, or Texas, or Alabama, or Georgia, or Houston for top 10-20 basketball recruits?

Is it money paid to recruits via NIL? Is it facilities? Is it money for top tier staff to nurture these relationships with players, families, and AAU coaches over a multi year period?

If I am a booster ready to write a check year over year to give Buzz what he needs to land two top 20 talents every year from either the portal or out of high school, then can Buzz actually execute on that?


Where does the money need to go?
The answer is NIL. It was stated previously that A&M's NIL doesn't compare to the elite schools'. So, if you are a booster ready to write a check, make sure it goes to NIL. Elite transfers run from $200-300k. But, as others have also said, it takes a kid that will fit Buzz, his style of coaching, style of play, etc.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
MarcAg
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carl spacklers hat said:

awschux said:

You are missing context. A poster replied to me to "stop looking at recruiting rankings". Thats why I said if someone would rather look at other metrics than rankings, then we can look at:

Draft picks (as a measure of quality of recruiting rather than 24/7 rankings).

OR

Sweet 16 appearances (as a measure of quality of recruiting rather than 24/7 rankings).

Regardless of the metric, recruiting service rankings, or number of draft picks produced, or number of sweet 16 appearances, Texas A&M does not recruit at a high enough level to achieve significant or long term success.


Lets reframe this as the question is sincere. What is needed for Buzz to be able to compete with Baylor, or Texas, or Alabama, or Georgia, or Houston for top 10-20 basketball recruits?

Is it money paid to recruits via NIL? Is it facilities? Is it money for top tier staff to nurture these relationships with players, families, and AAU coaches over a multi year period?

If I am a booster ready to write a check year over year to give Buzz what he needs to land two top 20 talents every year from either the portal or out of high school, then can Buzz actually execute on that?


Where does the money need to go?
The answer is NIL. It was stated previously that A&M's NIL doesn't compare to the elite schools'. So, if you are a booster ready to write a check, make sure it goes to NIL. Elite transfers run from $200-300k. But, as others have also said, it takes a kid that will fit Buzz, his style of coaching, style of play, etc.


Elite transfers run a lot more than 200-300k.
Mikeyshooter
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Agreed about elite transfers but we aren't exactly in on elite transfers. We're typically 2-3 tiers below.


FTAG 2000
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Try 500k to a million.

The big time prospects want to get paid. Period. And focus on basketball. Not thank you notes.
carl spacklers hat
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Good to know. Reinforces the need for NIL $
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
94chem
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Gap said:

Is high school recruiting super important anymore if the player isn't of the calibre to produce significantly in year 1?


UNC grad here. I watched Elliot Cadeau all season long. Good speed, good handle, good passer, 5 star recruit, immediate starter. However, the kid can't shoot. Pretty much can't shoot at all. And in the Sweet 16 against Alabama, he was on the bench in the second half when the season went down the tubes. At the end of the day, even most 5 stars are projects, with lots of rough edges. And when you do get that generational player like Durant or Zion, they only stay a year, and the team doesn't make a deep run. Carmelo was an exception. Recruiting established players from the portal just makes more sense.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Method Man
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"I don't buy the first statement; Buzz gets guys that are coachable not knuckleheads nor guys who are one and done players."

Nor does he usually get his first choices. Sometimes. We gotta figure out how to get him his first choices more.
t - cam
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Mikeyshooter said:

Agreed about elite transfers but we aren't exactly in on elite transfers. We're typically 2-3 tiers below.


We are in on the guys we can afford. Coaches don't really impact recruiting much anymore because honestly all these guys can coach.
94chem
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Probably more important to pay marginal pro players to stay 4 years than to pay NBA guys big bucks. Guys like Bacot make more a UNC than they would slumming around Australia.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
bobinator
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I think the idea that coaches don't really impact recruiting is pretty wild. We think every player is just going to whoever will pay the most with no other factors involved?

Of course the coach matters.
t - cam
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bobinator said:

I think the idea that coaches don't really impact recruiting is pretty wild. We think every player is just going to whoever will pay the most with no other factors involved?

Of course the coach matters.

I guess assuming everything else is pretty equal than sure the coach matters.
halfastros81
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What's the outcome of good recruiting ? To me the outcome is a good team . It's not how many players move on to the NBA, or how many are All Americans or All conference but rather those are byproducts . I feel like Buzz recruits fine for the most part . Has he been able to put the team in a position to be competitive with just about anyone - I'd say the Iowa St and Tennessee wins indicate yes . Are we UH or UConn level… no but I'd argue maybe this yrs team was only one or 2 guys short and one of them was an unplanned and unpredictable preseason loss. I think he's building a sustainable winning program that will eventually break thru in some years and to me that is what the expectation should be.
OKC~Ag
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bobinator said:

Nope. Buzz doesn't care about winning. We're just a leadership academy.
I suspected that...that is his dang book reading
GrayMatter
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Method Man said:

"I don't buy the first statement; Buzz gets guys that are coachable not knuckleheads nor guys who are one and done players."

Nor does he usually get his first choices. Sometimes. We gotta figure out how to get him his first choices more.
Well yeah that's the key, but I feel like they will come the more success we have in postseason play. Having a healthy NIL also helps and I think we're heading in that direction either with NIL and winning or both.
Pumpkinhead
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Tuesday Buzz lands Payne - Buzz can recruit! We must have some NIL money!
Wednesday Buzz does not land Pope - Buzz can't recruit! We don't have enough NIL money!
Roller coaster week!
Pumpkinhead
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bobinator said:

I think the idea that coaches don't really impact recruiting is pretty wild. We think every player is just going to whoever will pay the most with no other factors involved?

Of course the coach matters.
Coach matters, playing time matters, who the other players will be on the roster matters, school location matters, the school and which conference it plays in matters, and money matters

This is no different than all of us in our own work careers. We are not necessarily just going to change or pick jobs solely based on how much the salary is.

Now, a few schools may have so much money they can throw Brinks trucks at a key target that is significantly more than any other offer out there, to try to overwhelm all the other factors, and sure like any of us who might be enticed to do a pure money grab, I'm sure that is happening in some cases. But skeptical that is anywhere close to the majority of cases.

AggByMarriage
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halfastros81 said:

What's the outcome of good recruiting ? To me the outcome is a good team ...

Coach Calipari recruits well and his players have gone on to have prolific NBA careers, but he could NOT coach himself out of a paper bag.

I think Coach Williams does very well with what he has. And the players he has seem to be solid.

I think one aspect that measures a coach is how well his players like him and visa versa. Buzz seems _extremely loyal_ to his players and they love him.

I guess I'm one of the Coach Williams homers. If poster here are frustrated at the performance of the team, they should focus on A&M, not Coach Williams.


BuzzFan24
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All that matters is NCAA tournament wins - who cares about recruiting?....at least that's what has been shoved down this board's throat for the last few months.
zgolfz85
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AggByMarriage said:

halfastros81 said:

What's the outcome of good recruiting ? To me the outcome is a good team ...

Coach Calipari recruits well and his players have gone on to have prolific NBA careers, but he could NOT coach himself out of a paper bag.

I think Coach Williams does very well with what he has. And the players he has seem to be solid.

I think one aspect that measures a coach is how well his players like him and visa versa. Buzz seems _extremely loyal_ to his players and they love him.

I guess I'm one of the Coach Williams homers. If poster here are frustrated at the performance of the team, they should focus on A&M, not Coach Williams.



we all love buzz. While I'm personally sometimes a little frustrated with losing out on top recruits and transfers, he does prove that he can do more with less and it's impossible not to love how he meshes with his players and their love for him. The main frustration for me is knowing that he is a hell of a coach and the continual wonder of what he could do with just a bit more talent. If our roster could level up even just a tad, I think Buzz is easily capable of getting us back to the Sweet 16 and further. Maybe there's a big fish coming. Maybe Mills will be everything he was in HS and more. It's just frustrating knowing that we do have a good coach (with room to grow in defensive scheme and inbounds plays haha) and knowing that a school of our size isn't going deeper when it matters.

Hopefully NIL helps there a bit. Impossible not to root for the guy. I just dream of a day when making the tourney is a given in the vast majority of seasons and Sweet 16 being a decent season and not a once in a half decade to decade type season.
Schrute Farms
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I'm believing that Mills and Turkson will be contributors.

Buzz has developed Wade, Solo, and Manny (ish) as HS recruits. He also has an experienced group that gets the culture. It's a prime time for fish to enter the system and develop.
FTAG 2000
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I see the resident Buzz homers have made an appearance. Y'all are a sensitive bunch.

We are whiffing on primary targets to replace Boots, it's fair to question what our twelfth highest paid coach in D1 is doing on the recruiting front.

AggieCrew44
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FTAG 2000 said:

I see the resident Buzz homers have made an appearance. Y'all are a sensitive bunch.

We are whiffing on primary targets to replace Boots, it's fair to question what our twelfth highest paid coach in D1 is doing on the recruiting front.


Im not sure how it is hard to question that we aren't paying enough. It's pretty cut and dry
Gap
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AggieCrew44 said:

FTAG 2000 said:

I see the resident Buzz homers have made an appearance. Y'all are a sensitive bunch.

We are whiffing on primary targets to replace Boots, it's fair to question what our twelfth highest paid coach in D1 is doing on the recruiting front.


Im not sure how it is hard to question that we aren't paying enough. It's pretty cut and dry


As we must have been Payne's highest bidders, did we pay too much there? Should we have saved some of that $ for Pope?
AggieCrew44
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Gap said:

AggieCrew44 said:

FTAG 2000 said:

I see the resident Buzz homers have made an appearance. Y'all are a sensitive bunch.

We are whiffing on primary targets to replace Boots, it's fair to question what our twelfth highest paid coach in D1 is doing on the recruiting front.


Im not sure how it is hard to question that we aren't paying enough. It's pretty cut and dry


As we must have been Payne's highest bidders, did we pay too much there? Should we have saved some of that $ for Pope?
This is not what I said. Money isn't everything to everyone, but to think it doesn't greatly hinder Buzz is being oblivious
Gap
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AggieCrew44 said:

Gap said:

AggieCrew44 said:

FTAG 2000 said:

I see the resident Buzz homers have made an appearance. Y'all are a sensitive bunch.

We are whiffing on primary targets to replace Boots, it's fair to question what our twelfth highest paid coach in D1 is doing on the recruiting front.


Im not sure how it is hard to question that we aren't paying enough. It's pretty cut and dry

As we must have been Payne's highest bidders, did we pay too much there? Should we have saved some of that $ for Pope?
This is not what I said. Money isn't everything to everyone, but to think it doesn't greatly hinder Buzz is being oblivious
If money is the problem, then we likely need to talk about this.

Lots of great basketball coaches making $1 million, even $2 million per year than Buzz's $4,487,215 last year. Are we paying a head coach way to much of our school and fan's dollars allocated to men's basketball? An extra million or two to basketball NIL of our total allocation would do wonders.

Examples of the coaches I reference above:

Shaka Smart (Marquette) at $2.2M
Greg McDermott (Creighton) at $2.3M
TJ Otzelberger (Iowa St.) at $2.5M
Hubert Davis (North Carolina) at $2.6M
Mark Few (Gonzaga) at $2.7M
Grant McCasland (Texas Tech) at $2.9M
Rodney Terry (Texas) at $3.0M
Porter Moser (Oklahoma) at $3.1M
Chris Beard (Ole Miss) at $3.35M
Matt Painter (Purdue) at $3.68M

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
 
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