It does depend. Everything always depends on everything else. I probably would call to fire any coach who went five years here without making the NCAA Tournament. But I absolutely would not make it some hard and fast "rule" like you seem to be demanding I have. I think it would be dumb to make a decision to fire a coach solely on the number of times the team made the Tournament with no other thought. It would be like deciding ahead of time that you're going to fire a football coach based on a hard number of years that they finished in ranked in the top 25.

I would have fired Billy Kennedy in year 3. I might not fire a coach who in four years didn't make the tournament at all if he was otherwise a good coach, if the team was just barely not making it or obviously improving. A coach who hadn't made it in 4 year, and the 4th year was not even close, I would want them fired.

Anyway that's as good as I can give you. So I guess the closest thing I can give to a hard and fast answer is 5 years. Is that an adequate answer to your question? What's your answer to the same question?

The situation I just gave you, in bold above so I can refer to it again here, also means that I would apparently have fired Scott Drew before he ever even had a career at Baylor based on it. But at no point have ever felt like Baylor should fire Scott Drew in real life.

Will you give your ranking?

As for "whats the point?" its a message board, if we don't talk about anything, or analyze anything, then nobody has fun. Or at least that's how I look at it.

The Baylor situation might make Prop Joe's rare threshold for considering outside factors

JimLong50 said:

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Consider Greg McDermott of Creighton.

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In today's climate, Creighton is one of the best basketball jobs in the country.

bobinator said:

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The Baylor situation might make Prop Joe's rare threshold for considering outside factors

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Should we ask him if he would have fired Scott Drew after making the NIT in 2008-9?

I should also post, just in case it doesn't go without saying, that I also don't care if a coach makes it 4 times in four years, if year 5 and year 6 are in an epic collapse down to where you're one of the worst teams in all of college basketball, you're getting fired for that too regardless of the 4 trips in a row. Basically, I don't think boiling down someone's performance at a program to "Tourney Berths/Yr" is a particularly useful stat to use to evaluate them.

So missing the tourney 5 years in a row but making it in the 4th year and losing in the first round would be OK.

But making the tourney 4 years in a row but having 2 really bad years would be cause for firing?

Mind you in the former's 5 years, Year 2 we're completely tossing out because "covid" and Year 5 is looking like taking a step back despite a very experienced squad.

It really seems like you just play things by the eye test. You think Buzz is a good coach, so anyone who thinks we should be considering other options just doesn't know basketball.

Eventually you're as good a coach as your results show.

Quote:

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Basically, I don't think boiling down someone's performance at a program to "Tourney Berths/Yr" is a particularly useful stat to use to evaluate them.

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If you don't think how often you have your team among the Top 50 in the land and able to at least have a chance at a title is a useful stat to look at, then I'd question what exactly you think the whole point of our program is? Because it ain't coach of the year awards, and it ain't finishing 2nd in the conference.

The idea of using something besides "making the Tourney" in an evaluation really blows your mind, huh?

You couldn't be further off course if you think I rely on the "eye test." Although it obviously does tend to color my opinions between coaches who have coached for us, because I've seen them coach so many games, that you tend to see it all. But "eye test" almost could never tell you whether you think Buzz Williams is better than Steve Prohm. I've only ever seen Prohm coach, I dunno, 10+ games? out of his whole career.

JJxvi said:

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The idea of using something besides "making the Tourney" in an evaluation really blows your mind, huh?

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Over the sample size of 4+ years, yes.

Because if you're doing all of the other things you should be doing, then that will result in... making the Tourney.

Now, if I were to say "getting out of the first round" or the like, you might have a point.

But if you aren't "making the Tourney", you haven't produced a Top 50 team. If you haven't produced a Top 50 team over a decent sample size, then all those other things you think are more important for evaluation than making the tourney aren't adding up to success.

And if you're 51st, you're last.

You discount someone's whole career as not being relevant , but boil a season down to one data point, out of which you think "4" is a "decent sample size"

If you saw JJ Reddick miss three out of four free throws you'd tell me that he sucks and then refuse to name someone better.

JJxvi said:

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You discount someone's whole career as not being relevant , but boil a season down to one data point, out of which you think "4" is a "decent sample size"

If you saw JJ Reddick miss three out of four free throws you'd tell me that he sucks and then refuse to name someone better.

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If JJ Reddick missed 75% of his free throws over a 5 year period, I'd tell you he was a bad free throw shooter.

You'd tell me I don't understand free throws and sign him long-term as a free throw specialist.

Buzz Williams
Greg McDermott
Fred Hoiberg
Steve Prohm

I give up.

Shouldn't have even entered the debate with someone that stated "Sweet 16 appearances aren't accomplishments" and told everyone we should be happy with Buzz because other fanbases think that's the best we could hope to do.

I mean you're kind of late to the party. Technically, I said (something similar to that) 6 years ago.

I haven't watched USF this year, but Kennesaw was really impressive last year under him. At only 42, he'd be a great young coach if we decide to move on from BW

Dawn Staley. Half serious.

Plus, give WBB an easier path through conference without her at SC.

JJxvi said:

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Buzz Williams
Greg McDermott
Fred Hoiberg
Steve Prohm

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