_lefraud_ said:

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Absolutely no reason to extend at this time. These discussions need to happen a year from now.

Buzz was a splash hire but it just hasn't worked out. A&M will never fire a coach that just made the tournament, but what is the decision if he doesn't win a tournament game in 2024?

With that said, he'll likely get a 4yr extension sometime next month.

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By history standards, if we make it next year, it would begin to start the second tourney streak in school history.

Texas A&M said:

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Can we start an official list for how Buzz has gotten screwed since being here, and why his lack of of performance shouldn't be held against him in regards to getting a contract extension.
1 - Covid
2 - Should have been in last year
3 - Should have been a better seed this year.

I'm sure I've forgotten some, so please feel free to add any.

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Points 1 & 2 are a decent argument. Having trouble with point 3 after last night's awful performance.

Buzz met the bar this year. Had we missed the tournament I think we should have moved on because even though he is a good coach with a good background, it just wasn't happening here for whatever reason.

Now I would like to see it happen again before we back the truck up. Certainly if we've got a coach that is getting to the tournament most years and WANTS to be here we should keep him forever.

t - cam said:

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TJaggie14 said:

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Texas A&M said:

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Can we start an official list for how Buzz has gotten screwed since being here, and why his lack of of performance shouldn't be held against him in regards to getting a contract extension.
1 - Covid
2 - Should have been in last year
3 - Should have been a better seed this year.

I'm sure I've forgotten some, so please feel free to add any.

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Points 1 & 2 are a decent argument. Having trouble with point 3 after last night's awful performance.

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Point 3 is honestly the easiest one to understand. We were bad last night but I'm not sure how that game changes what you did for a whole season and what you earned.

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I think I understand what you mean by point 3 now. You are right, this year A&M finished strong and did great in SEC play. Based on lots of diff metrics they should have been a higher seed.
At the same time, I struggle with the idea/argument after last night's embarrassing lost that we should have been a better seed.

I don't see how you take how we played last night and match up against a diff team and we get a diff/better result. We turned the ball over so often, and at critical times. We looked lost of defensive rotations. Shooting 34% from the field won't win many games in the tourney .

Clearly Arizona shouldn't have been a 2 seed.

amercer said:

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Clearly Arizona shouldn't have been a 2 seed.

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Losing by 4 (you know, getting upset in the tourney) is very different that losing by 17 and being dominated.

TJaggie14 said:

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amercer said:

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Clearly Arizona shouldn't have been a 2 seed.

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Losing by 4 (you know, getting upset in the tourney) is very different that losing by 17 and being dominated.

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That still has nothing to do with the seed you earn during the season.

Buzz just needs to hire an offensive coordinator.

JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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Would love to hire a young guy who's proven himself at a lower level. Give him a two year deal with performance incentives.

HoopsAg said:

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JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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Would love to hire a young guy who's proven himself at a lower level. Give him a two year deal with performance incentives.

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why would anyone be dumb enough to take that deal?

I'm a big pro-Buzz guy.

I wouldn't extend right now.

We need a better showing next season, he dug himself a hole with the results years 1 & 2. I get the COVID thing.

We need a good SEC record and an NCAA Tourney win next season.

TyperWoods said:

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I'm a big pro-Buzz guy.

I wouldn't extend right now.

We need a better showing next season, he dug himself a hole with the results years 1 & 2. I get the COVID thing.

We need a good SEC record and an NCAA Tourney win next season.

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Year 2 was COViD. Year 1 was a pretty good coaching job. Last year and this year are good years.

bobinator said:

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HoopsAg said:

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Would love to hire a young guy who's proven himself at a lower level. Give him a two year deal with performance incentives.

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This absolutely never happens. What even remotely proven coach is taking a two year deal?

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People say stuff like this with football too..."hire a big time up and comer and give him a $2MM base with 10+MM in incentives...all he has to do is beat Saban, Kirby, etc. and he can be the highest paid in all the land" and then the response to "nobody will do that" is something about how some coach who truly believes in himself would LOVE to be underpaid up front or some such.

TJaggie14 said:

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t - cam said:

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TJaggie14 said:

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Texas A&M said:

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Can we start an official list for how Buzz has gotten screwed since being here, and why his lack of of performance shouldn't be held against him in regards to getting a contract extension.
1 - Covid
2 - Should have been in last year
3 - Should have been a better seed this year.

I'm sure I've forgotten some, so please feel free to add any.

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Points 1 & 2 are a decent argument. Having trouble with point 3 after last night's awful performance.

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Point 3 is honestly the easiest one to understand. We were bad last night but I'm not sure how that game changes what you did for a whole season and what you earned.

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I think I understand what you mean by point 3 now. You are right, this year A&M finished strong and did great in SEC play. Based on lots of diff metrics they should have been a higher seed.
At the same time, I struggle with the idea/argument after last night's embarrassing lost that we should have been a better seed.

I don't see how you take how we played last night and match up against a diff team and we get a diff/better result. We turned the ball over so often, and at critical times. We looked lost of defensive rotations. Shooting 34% from the field won't win many games in the tourney .

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I think losing to one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country because they had an obscenely hot hand - even for them - is kind of the definition of a situation where swapping out the opponent probably makes a difference.

Texas A&M said:

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JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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No, his pay is relevant. We're paying him a top ten salary and he hasn't delivered so far. It doesn't mean we fire him today, but we sure as hell shouldn't give him an extension this year.

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it's more complicated than that. Usually when coaches get paid more even if they haven't won for what they are paid for it's more of a supply and scenario. Market price and what our alternatives would be.

No dammit! Stop extending coaches who have not done Jack s*** here!

BQ_90 said:

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t - cam said:

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If you're upset with buzz at A&M I don't know what to tell you. He's had 3 very good coaching years. You can't all agree the committee screwed us then blame buzz for getting screwed.

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3 good years, with zero tourney wins?

You forgot to blame covid too.

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Zero tourney wins is not a true statement. We made it to the finals of the NIT and lost by a point in the championship game last year. We had the resume to get into the Big Dance, but got hosed. It would have been easy to shut it down and fold it up, but we showed that leaving us out was unjustified.

I get that the NIT is not the NCAA Championship Tourney, but by advancing to the NIT championship, we won more post-season games last year than all but the final four teams in the NCAA and 1 team in the NIT.

Am I sunshine pumping? Sure. But despite the disappointment of the last 2 games, I'm a Buzz supporter and I think he is a good coach that we would be stupid to even consider getting rid of. If we are such a good job, why hasn't anyone since Shelby Metcalf been able to maintain any long-term success?

Booma94 said:

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BQ_90 said:

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t - cam said:

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If you're upset with buzz at A&M I don't know what to tell you. He's had 3 very good coaching years. You can't all agree the committee screwed us then blame buzz for getting screwed.

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3 good years, with zero tourney wins?

You forgot to blame covid too.

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Zero tourney wins is not a true statement. We made it to the finals of the NIT and lost by a point in the championship game last year. We had the resume to get into the Big Dance, but got hosed. It would have been easy to shut it down and fold it up, but we showed that leaving us out was unjustified.

I get that the NIT is not the NCAA Championship Tourney, but by advancing to the NIT championship, we won more post-season games last year than all but the final four teams in the NCAA and 1 team in the NIT.

Am I sunshine pumping? Sure. But despite the disappointment of the last 2 games, I'm a Buzz supporter and I think he is a good coach that we would be stupid to even consider getting rid of. If we are such a good job, why hasn't anyone since Shelby Metcalf been able to maintain any long-term success?

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nobody wants to play in the NIT. The only tourney that matters is the NCAAs.

we got hosed because we put our fate in the committees hands because of poor OOC games and losing streak during conference play.

We did maintain success with BCG and Turgeon.

Also I never said fire him, that a tactic you pumpers use to attack anyone that doesn't drink the koolaid.

I replied to a poster that said we had 3 VERY GOOD years. That's just bull***** If those are good years then we should extend Buzz another 5 years and not expect any better results.

TJaggie14 said:

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amercer said:

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Clearly Arizona shouldn't have been a 2 seed.

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Losing by 4 (you know, getting upset in the tourney) is very different that losing by 17 and being dominated.

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Last night was rough no doubt, but 7 is a lot closer to 10 than 2 is to 15.

StinkyPinky said:

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JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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Someone gets it

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Is he saying Buzz Williams is the only coach we can get and so we should just be happy with what we have? Or am I reading it wrong?

I think he is saying buzz is the only coach with skins on wall we could possibly get to come to A&M, so be happy we have someone like that willing to come to A&M

fieldtrailer said:

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StinkyPinky said:

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JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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Someone gets it

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Is he saying Buzz Williams is the only coach we can get and so we should just be happy with what we have? Or am I reading it wrong?

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He's saying that you are going to have to overpay a guy like buzz to come here. The line forms to the left if he's made available.

BQ_90 said:

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t - cam said:

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fieldtrailer said:

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StinkyPinky said:

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JJxvi said:

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What he gets paid is irrelevant. Buzz Williams is literally the only coach in the country who could conceivably command a top 10 salary that would actually take the job at Texas A&M. Pretty much the only reason he's here is because he wanted to be here. Firing or letting Buzz Williams walk doesnt equal hiring Mick Cronin or some nonsense, it means taking a flyer on someone else who hasnt done anything yet and hoping and praying or doing something dumb (and yet would have been lauded by this message board a few years ago) like hiring a guy like Avery Johnson and wasting a **** ton of money.

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Someone gets it

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Is he saying Buzz Williams is the only coach we can get and so we should just be happy with what we have? Or am I reading it wrong?

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He's saying that you are going to have to overpay a guy like buzz to come here. The line forms to the left if he's made available.

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we can pay far less for the same results. Why is the assumption we have to overpay.

I think we've learned you can't buy wins in football and MBB

But it's moot point, he's not getting fired. The question at hand is he getting extended

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I'm sure we we understand the question. But we don't have enough information if someone else is trying to pick him up, if he wants to start looking around etc. This is an average basketball stop as of right now so do we risk losing him? I don't have the answer and we've had some idiotic contracts in the past but we likely don't have enough info

BQ_90 said:

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nobody wants to play in the NIT. The only tourney that matters is the NCAAs.

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I don't think that's a true statement either. There are 352 D-1 programs. 68 make the dance, another 4-8 are on the bubble and are pissed that they didn't make the dance. That makes about 276 programs that would like to be in the NIT.

We finished 2nd in what is arguably the toughest basketball conference in the country, and have made it to the championship game of the conference tourney 2 consecutive years. While I admit that not winning an NCAA tourney game is frustrating, and the manner in which we lost our last 2 games is maddening, it's obvious that the program is making progress. While I question whether a raise is warranted, I don't think there is any question that Buzz should be extended.

Booma94 said:

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BQ_90 said:

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nobody wants to play in the NIT. The only tourney that matters is the NCAAs.

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I don't think that's a true statement either. There are 352 D-1 programs. 68 make the dance, another 4-8 are on the bubble and are pissed that they didn't make the dance. That makes about 276 programs that would like to be in the NIT.

We finished 2nd in what is arguably the toughest basketball conference in the country, and have made it to the championship game of the conference tourney 2 consecutive years. While I admit that not winning an NCAA tourney game is frustrating, and the manner in which we lost our last 2 games is maddening, it's obvious that the program is making progress. While I question whether a raise is warranted, I don't think there is any question that Buzz should be extended.

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The NIT is the equivalent of just above a participation ribbon. While I don't think he should be fired, there's no reason to extend him this offseason. What's he going to do, go someplace else?