Hop said:

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bdp514am said:

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Well let's not forget how incredibly difficult making the NCAA tourney was during much of Shelby's career. For 11 of those seasons only 1 school per conference qualified. The tourney didn't expand to 32 teams until 1975. Heck, USC went 24-2 in 1971 and didn't play in the post season because both of those losses were to conference rival UCLA.

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If you would like to use post-1975 data, thst's fine. He went to two NCAA's in 15 years including 1987 when A&M was the 8th seed ( in an 8 team tournament) in a really bad league and win the conference tournament despite a losing record in conference play.

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And with a 64 team field likely would have had 2 maybe even 3 more teams qualify

wacarnolds said:

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Kennedy has 2 sweet 16s, the most impressive NCAAT win in school history, one of the greatest wins in NCAAT history, and our only conference title since whenever.

Any formula you use that doesn't put him at #2 is crap

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Dude. It was a great game and we all enjoyed it, but let's not get carried away here. We thumped a team that already had 10 losses. Great, but that's probably not one of the 50 best wins in NCAAT history.

maybe our NCAA tourney history.

Ranking Kennedy really depends on how you weigh the regular season against the post. People remember the tournament, but at the same time, I think single elimination tournaments are a very bad tool for judging coaches. Basketball reminds me of blackjack in that you can count cards + do everything correctly and still get creamed over a short time window. Likewise, you can be a great team and lose early if the other team is hot when you're cold (Virginia) or you can be a mediocre to bad team, get hot, and make a run.

Before our 5-1 run to the Sweet 16 (with the 1 loss being an LOL-L to Alabama), we were on the cusp of missing the tournament. Given that, I just can't call this one of our best seasons ever. It was a largely disappointing season that featured a pair of nice wins at the end (they're the ones that count the most, but still).

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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wacarnolds said:

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Kennedy has 2 sweet 16s, the most impressive NCAAT win in school history, one of the greatest wins in NCAAT history, and our only conference title since whenever.

Any formula you use that doesn't put him at #2 is crap

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Dude. It was a great game and we all enjoyed it, but let's not get carried away here. We thumped a team that already had 10 losses. Great, but that's probably not one of the 50 best wins in NCAAT history.

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I'm talking about UNI comeback

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Ranking Kennedy really depends on how you weigh the regular season against the post. People remember the tournament, but at the same time, I think single elimination tournaments are a very bad tool for judging coaches. Basketball reminds me of blackjack in that you can count cards + do everything correctly and still get creamed over a short time window. Likewise, you can be a great team and lose early if the other team is hot when you're cold (Virginia) or you can be a mediocre to bad team, get hot, and make a run.

Before our 5-1 run to the Sweet 16 (with the 1 loss being an LOL-L to Alabama), we were on the cusp of missing the tournament. Given that, I just can't call this one of our best seasons ever. It was a largely disappointing season that featured a pair of nice wins at the end (they're the ones that count the most, but still).

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This season wasn't without some major low points, but it is still tied for the 5th best seed we've ever got, so in at least one way it's a top 5 regular season ever. And it's tied for the best postseason we've ever had. Add that together and I don't see how it's not one of the best seasons ever, even with all the disappointing moments.

UNI comeback was great against a team we should've beaten by about 12 going into the game.

Hop. You get my point. The vegas line wasn't the point. The miracle comeback was amazing. One for the ages. Should it have been that close?

I also get your point that we won and in the tourney that's what it's all about.

Oh right, of course.

(refuses to make eye contact)

Method Man said:

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Hop. You get my point. The vegas line wasn't the point. The miracle comeback was amazing. One for the ages. Should it have been that close?

I also get your point that we won and in the tourney that's what it's all about.

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I wouldn't trade that UNI ending for us to have set the record against them for the worst NCAA tournament beat-down. Sometimes things happen that make you glad you didn't win by 30.

The experience was better but that doesn't mean the coaching was as good as it could have been. Obviously, it's a historic event in our history that probably shouldn't have been.

GE said:

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Method Man said:

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Hop. You get my point. The vegas line wasn't the point. The miracle comeback was amazing. One for the ages. Should it have been that close?

I also get your point that we won and in the tourney that's what it's all about.

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I wouldn't trade that UNI ending for us to have set the record against them for the worst NCAA tournament beat-down. Sometimes things happen that make you glad you didn't win by 30.

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I'd rather had won by 30. Amazing win for the story but also gave me no confidence going into OU.

Bunk Moreland said:

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GE said:

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Method Man said:

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Hop. You get my point. The vegas line wasn't the point. The miracle comeback was amazing. One for the ages. Should it have been that close?

I also get your point that we won and in the tourney that's what it's all about.

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I wouldn't trade that UNI ending for us to have set the record against them for the worst NCAA tournament beat-down. Sometimes things happen that make you glad you didn't win by 30.

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I'd rather had won by 30. Amazing win for the story but also gave me no confidence going into OU.

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the confidence from beating UNC by a bajillion didn't seem to help against Michigan

wacarnolds said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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the confidence from beating UNC by a bajillion didn't seem to help against Michigan

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It didn't help BK & the team, but it helped the fanbase a lot imo.

It helped the fan base? If anything it's made the divide wider. From those who cherry pick a few examples ignoring the majority of data vs. those who have seen enough and won't be swayed by outlier games.

I'm not talking about pro or anti BK or cherrypicking games. I'm literally saying from the end of round 2's game to the sweet 16, that week felt like a chore after UNI because the fanbase knew what was coming.

Beating the dog out of the defending champs this year gave the fanbase confidence and made the leadup to Michigan in the S16 much more enjoyable.

Every conversation on here isn't always about the big picture or BK's ability to coach

I know I'll get blasted over my stance. But I felt like the Michigan outcome was an easy call. Game went totally as I expected. But yea I guess after UNC it was house money and who cares.

Show me where you only predicted a blowout loss to Michigan. No qualifiers like "equally likely to win as get blown out"

I thought that giving John Beilein a few days prep vs. the leave people open defense wasn't a recipe for hope. Thought it was a bad matchup.

Double Diamond said:

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I thought that giving John Beilein a few days prep vs. the leave people open defense wasn't a recipe for hope. Thought it was a bad matchup.

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They shot well in one game in the tournament. They had people open in all games in the tournament. We were to them as unc was to us.