Williams needs another year here

6,481 Views | 92 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by SACR
Pumpkinhead
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In reply to StanGundy • 6:10p, 3/19/17
AG
StanGundy said:
Name some certain lottery picks who came back Hickory.


Blake Griffin!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Griffin

Said that he returned to the Sooners in 2008 for his sophomore season despite being a certain lottery pick to 'further mature physically and try to win an NCAA championship'.

He kicked major ass his sophomore season sweeping all the major national college Player of the Year awards. Was then the #1 pick in 2009 NBA draft.

And Griffin's S&C coach at Oklahoma was.....current A&M S&C coach Darby Rich......hmmmmm....I'm feeling it! Deja Vu Baby!
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Aggie09Derek
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In reply to Hickory High • 6:22p, 3/19/17
AG
Hickory High said:
Just off the top of my head, I can think of James McAdoo, Ben Simmons (could've just stayed in Australia an extra year), Alex Poythres, the Harrison twins, probably Justin Jackson, and Perry Jones.


Aaron Harrison went unddrafted and Andrew was drafted mid 2nd round.
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StanGundy
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6:36p, 3/19/17
Perry Jones and Simmons are the only two guys on that list who were sure fire lottery picks. Poythress and the twins never were or they would e enter draft. Same for McAdoo. Simmons still went #1 so that name doesn't even make sense.

I don't even disagree that lots of guys lose ground. I'm just asking which guys besides Kris Dunn and Blake Griffin who werrr definite lottery picks came back and hurt their stock?
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agsfan
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6:36p, 3/19/17
Another year under Kennedy isn't good for anyone.

His best bet is to go get a few million bucks and some real coaching, and get a year closer to his second contract.
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Hickory High
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In reply to Aggie09Derek • 6:37p, 3/19/17
AG
Aggie09Derek said:
Hickory High said:
Just off the top of my head, I can think of James McAdoo, Ben Simmons (could've just stayed in Australia an extra year), Alex Poythres, the Harrison twins, probably Justin Jackson, and Perry Jones.


Aaron Harrison went unddrafted and Andrew was drafted mid 2nd round.

Exactly. If they'd left after just one year, they would've been lottery picks.
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Aggie09Derek
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In reply to Hickory High • 6:48p, 3/19/17
AG
Yup - just showing how far they fell. That was even after them leading the way for them in their tourney run.
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Method Man
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7:09p, 3/19/17
The longer you stay the more you have to prove.
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TMartin
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7:24p, 3/19/17
We know all that but there's always some POS lawyer/agent illegally telling kids what he can get them and they're 18=19 yrs old and believe it. The other question is what does Williams have to look forward to.........
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to Aggie09Derek • 7:26p, 3/19/17
AG
Aggie09Derek said:
Yup - just showing how far they fell. That was even after them leading the way for them in their tourney run.


According to this USA Today article, the Harrison twins ' begrudgly' returned to Kentucky for a second season because the actual information from NBA scouts were that they were not even getting a first round grade.

I looked this up because this talk of the Harrison twins being lottery picks as freshman, that was not what I remembered and really doesn't seem like that was the case. They returned to Kentucky to try to boost their stock enough to get drafted in the first round.

https://www.google.com/amp/ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/harrison-twins-kentucky/amp
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TangoMike
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 7:29p, 3/19/17
Pumpkinhead said:
Aggie09Derek said:
Yup - just showing how far they fell. That was even after them leading the way for them in their tourney run.


According to this USA Today article, the Harrison twins ' begrudgly' returned to Kentucky for a second season because the actual information from NBA scouts were that they were not even getting a first round grade.

I looked this up because this talk of the Harrison twins being lottery picks as freshman, it really doesn't seem like that was the case. They returned to Kentucky to try to boost their stock enough to get drafted in the first round.

https://www.google.com/amp/ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/harrison-twins-kentucky/amp
They story (at the time) was that they were given mid/late-1st round grades but were told by their prospective agents that they would be lottery picks if they showed out in the tournament (calling jml... calling jml...). In the end neither one got anything, despite a great tournament showing
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to Hickory High • 7:31p, 3/19/17
AG
Hickory High said:
Aggie09Derek said:
Hickory High said:
Just off the top of my head, I can think of James McAdoo, Ben Simmons (could've just stayed in Australia an extra year), Alex Poythres, the Harrison twins, probably Justin Jackson, and Perry Jones.


Aaron Harrison went unddrafted and Andrew was drafted mid 2nd round.

Exactly. If they'd left after just one year, they would've been lottery picks.


That is not what articles like that USA article that I posted indicate. Per some info out there, Harrisons apparently did not like what they were hearing in terms of draft grade and they were somewhat forced to go back to Kentucky.
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Method Man
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7:46p, 3/19/17
There really wasn't much about the Harrison's that screamed NBA.
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StanGundy
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8:51p, 3/19/17
The Harrison's never received a 1st Round grade. That's why they returned. They and dad wanted very badly to be OAD. They were the exact opposites of RW. Overhyped out of HS vs underrated.

Still waiting for the sure fire lottery picks who returned and hurt themselves.
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SACR
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In reply to TangoMike • 8:58p, 3/19/17
AG
Tribe2013 said:
Hickory High said:
Just off the top of my head, I can think of James McAdoo, Ben Simmons (could've just stayed in Australia an extra year), Alex Poythres, the Harrison twins, probably Justin Jackson, and Perry Jones.


A couple of weeks ago I made a list of about 20 dudes whose stock dropped after coming back. I also made a list of about 10 dudes who were drafted on potential but would have dropped after teams figured out they had no skill (Tyreke Evans, Stromile Swift, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph). I agree with your position 100%, but for some reason people think coming back always improves draft position. Probably because we have a school full of people who think everything runs like football.

John Wallace is crying in his beer somewhere
Beasley came out the year after Durant, and easily surpassed Durant's numbers as a freshman. His problem wasn't a lack of skills, it was marijuana.
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Double Diamond
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9:07p, 3/19/17
Top ten picks coming back and going up are rare. Pipe dream net boards talk about based on no reality.
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GrayMatter
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 10:17a, 3/20/17
AG
And I'm sure that Rich will be in William's ear about what he can be next year making this comparison.

There is no reason to believe that he will digress if he comes back next year regardless of who will be coaching him.
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Hop
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In reply to Method Man • 10:51a, 3/20/17
Staff
AG
Method Man said:
I don't see any difference in skills. Basically the same player. He doesn't have a post game, isn't a good shooter, doesn't box out. I'm sure he's improved on some intangibles, but I don't see anyone that different than he was against UCLA.
The kid was bone skinny and raw when I saw him in November 2015. He was a completely different player when he hit the court November 2016. And if you look at his production, he got significantly better as the year progressed. Maybe you were distracted with all of the extra dribbling going on 35 feet from the basket.
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JJxvi
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11:03a, 3/20/17
AG
Nice job locking a valid thread with like 40 posts of discussion about the strength of the SEC because you got called out in the thread title.
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jml2621
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In reply to Hickory High • 11:08a, 3/20/17
Hickory High said:
I mean players that were projected to get drafted but came back. Plenty of guys improve, but not many guys on draft radars improve their stock with another year.
Two of the Plumlees were projected to get drafted and came back. Both Mason and Miles became first round picks.
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jml2621
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In reply to JJxvi • 11:09a, 3/20/17
JJxvi said:
Nice job locking a valid thread with like 40 posts of discussion about the strength of the SEC because you got called out in the thread title.

Thin-skinned click bait? Shocking.
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jml2621
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In reply to Method Man • 11:18a, 3/20/17
Method Man said:
The longer you stay the more you have to prove.

Are you sure, you all are not t.u. or KY trolls? The objective is to convince Robert to stay...because it is in OUR best interest.


Miles Plumlee
Mason Plumee
Marcus Smart
Cody Zeller
John Henson
Patrick Patterson
Al-Farouq Aminu


all improved their stock, particularly the first 4.


This difference this year is the depth of the draft. This is the deepest draft and HS class since the 1979 HS class. Next year is far weaker.

Thus 10-12 this year = 3-5 next year. With physical maturity and a PG to highlight skills, RW is a Top 3 pick next year and a FREAK human highlight film...that EVERYONE will want to see next year. The biggest thing sports wise on campus since Johnny Football...especially since we're in for another meh Football season.


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Method Man
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12:28p, 3/20/17
If he bases his staying or leaving on this forum I would be shoxked
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birdman
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In reply to Hickory High • 1:07p, 3/20/17
Tim Duncan
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TangoMike
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In reply to SACR • 1:44p, 3/20/17
SACR said:
Tribe2013 said:
Hickory High said:
Just off the top of my head, I can think of James McAdoo, Ben Simmons (could've just stayed in Australia an extra year), Alex Poythres, the Harrison twins, probably Justin Jackson, and Perry Jones.


A couple of weeks ago I made a list of about 20 dudes whose stock dropped after coming back. I also made a list of about 10 dudes who were drafted on potential but would have dropped after teams figured out they had no skill (Tyreke Evans, Stromile Swift, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph). I agree with your position 100%, but for some reason people think coming back always improves draft position. Probably because we have a school full of people who think everything runs like football.

John Wallace is crying in his beer somewhere
Beasley came out the year after Durant, and easily surpassed Durant's numbers as a freshman. His problem wasn't a lack of skills, it was marijuana.


Beasley was the truth playing at his K-State listed height of 6-10. When he turned out to only really be like 6-5 he was suddenly just another decent SF
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Hickory High
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In reply to birdman • 2:02p, 3/20/17
AG
birdman said:
Tim Duncan

You can't go that far back. The approach and context surrounding the draft is 100% different.
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SACR
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In reply to birdman • 3:54p, 3/20/17
AG
birdman said:
Tim Duncan
You can't improve on being #1.

Duncan turned down the opportunity to go #1 twice.

Still one of my all-time favorite players at both the college and professional level.
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TombstoneTex
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4:03p, 3/20/17
AG
Does the fact that he has not declared yet mean anything? i.e. a good sign?
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Hop
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In reply to JJxvi • 5:37p, 3/20/17
Staff
AG
JJxvi said:
Nice job locking a valid thread with like 40 posts of discussion about the strength of the SEC because you got called out in the thread title.

Incorrect....the premise of the OP was a false narrative and the strength of the SEC was just a convenient backdrop to conjure up that false narrative. If you really want to discuss the strength of the SEC, then start a serious discussion thread like I suggested.

If you want to have a serious discussion about A&M basketball and associated basketball topics, you are free to do so. Thinking you have the right to just pop off with no valid discussion point for the sake of being an ass on this website is incorrect.

Many here have repeatedly disagreed with my opinions on a discussion point. That is fine. Making **** up for the sake of insulting the staff, players, coaches, other posters, etc. is not OK.
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JJxvi
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5:50p, 3/20/17
AG
I tried to post on that thread about the SEC discussion that was going on only to lose the post because you locked it. The discussion i was responding to had nothing to do with you. You clearly locked the thread solely because the title called you out. Whatever, i was just annoyed that I wrote a post and then the whole thing was shut down wasting the time i spent, and then saw you had also posted on the next thread i read (this one). Anyway, not gonna derail this one further.
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Method Man
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In reply to Hop • 6:09p, 3/20/17
Hop said:
Method Man said:
I don't see any difference in skills. Basically the same player. He doesn't have a post game, isn't a good shooter, doesn't box out. I'm sure he's improved on some intangibles, but I don't see anyone that different than he was against UCLA.
The kid was bone skinny and raw when I saw him in November 2015. He was a completely different player when he hit the court November 2016. And if you look at his production, he got significantly better as the year progressed. Maybe you were distracted with all of the extra dribbling going on 35 feet from the basket.


Oh he definitely got bigger and that counts. They've done a great job on that.

Production goes up with PT. I'm not sure what's what. I do recall his stock skyrocketing very early. It's not much better now. Imo
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TXAggie2011
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6:35p, 3/20/17
AG
Quote:
If you really want to discuss the strength of the SEC, then start a serious discussion thread like I suggested...

Making **** up for the sake of insulting the staff, players, coaches, other posters, etc. is not OK.


There was serious discussion happening.

And please, your whole shtick is to come on here and insult folks, and you often speak in half-truths and falsities while doing it.

What I can't tell is how much of that is your actual personality or you trying to earn your TexAgs paycheck.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to Method Man • 6:43p, 3/20/17
AG
My sense with RW is much the same. His stock exploded when folks realized back in December that he was a athletic freak that could pull down the rebounds and shoot .550+ from the floor.

He showed that as early as the USC game as early as mid-November, actually. And pulling down 5 offensive rebounds against VaTech later in November in just 21 minutes was a nice follow-up.

I said it on another thread but you have to figure out what development came via skill development versus getting a guy with freak athleticism into a Division-1 workout and diet program.
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SWAGBOT
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7:29p, 3/20/17
AG
RW doesn't need another year here. We need another year with him.
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TangoMike
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In reply to SWAGBOT • 7:38p, 3/20/17
SWAGBOT said:
RW doesn't need another year here. We need another year with him.


This about sums it up. All the arguments for him staying boil down to this
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Hop
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In reply to Method Man • 8:03p, 3/20/17
Staff
AG
Method Man said:
Hop said:
Method Man said:
I don't see any difference in skills. Basically the same player. He doesn't have a post game, isn't a good shooter, doesn't box out. I'm sure he's improved on some intangibles, but I don't see anyone that different than he was against UCLA.
The kid was bone skinny and raw when I saw him in November 2015. He was a completely different player when he hit the court November 2016. And if you look at his production, he got significantly better as the year progressed. Maybe you were distracted with all of the extra dribbling going on 35 feet from the basket.


Oh he definitely got bigger and that counts. They've done a great job on that.

Production goes up with PT. I'm not sure what's what. I do recall his stock skyrocketing very early. It's not much better now. Imo
Not much better? He initially emerged on the scene after the Virginia Tech game and he popped up at the end of the 1st round on a few lists. In two months, he was pushing the lottery. By the end of the year he was pressing the top 10. According to this 2016 salary calculator, I'd say he got about $5 million better.



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