It seems like we rarely if ever just have guys that can shoot the 3. So important. Does this class coming in address that?
Hop- Shooters
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Last: 7 yr ago by jml2621
We 240th in the nation in three-point FG % as a team.
We are 263th in the nation in three-point FG % Defense.
Not a good combination.
After reading most of Hop's write-ups, I don't think the incoming class has the shooters you are looking for. Jay-Jay Chandler probably is the best but Hop always ends his write-ups with "needs to improve outside shooting."
As for returning players, Gilder is a 40+% 3-pt shooter and Hogg is around 37%.
Its astounding that Trocha is a less than 25% shooter and he is still allowed to continually jack up shots. BK even called him out after last game saying he needs to be in the gym more, but there's no real incentive if he still plays tons of minutes and is allowed to do what he wants.
As for returning players, Gilder is a 40+% 3-pt shooter and Hogg is around 37%.
Its astounding that Trocha is a less than 25% shooter and he is still allowed to continually jack up shots. BK even called him out after last game saying he needs to be in the gym more, but there's no real incentive if he still plays tons of minutes and is allowed to do what he wants.
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
Not sure about three point shooting, but you will very likely have a roster with more guys capable of breaking defenses down off the dribble and going fast to the basket with a purpose.
Will probably be a totally different look than watching guys like Hampton, Collins, and Carlton passing the ball around the perimeter.
And usually when you have guys who are able to break teams down off the dribble, you get better three point looks. Because they either collapse the defense or because defenders don't close out on the shot quite as hard because they are worried of getting blown by. the pu-pu platter of Hampton/Collins/etc. is almost zero threat to scare folks with their handles or athleticism, and even Gilder seems so-so as a slasher type. He seems to do his best work as a catch-and-shoot off-guard.
Will probably be a totally different look than watching guys like Hampton, Collins, and Carlton passing the ball around the perimeter.
And usually when you have guys who are able to break teams down off the dribble, you get better three point looks. Because they either collapse the defense or because defenders don't close out on the shot quite as hard because they are worried of getting blown by. the pu-pu platter of Hampton/Collins/etc. is almost zero threat to scare folks with their handles or athleticism, and even Gilder seems so-so as a slasher type. He seems to do his best work as a catch-and-shoot off-guard.
I don't know about that...Gilder is a pretty good shooter. And Hogg was ranked as the best SF shooter in his HS recruiting class. LOTS of other major programs would have gladly taken DJ Hogg.Tribe2013 said:
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
I think the fundamentals of setting your feet, spacing the floor, rotating the ball quickly, etc are more of a reason we suck at shooting threes than our actual ability to shoot threes.
Just as a small example: Hampton is up over 42% from 3 now on the season, which is getting close to elite and we got him all of one shot last night.
Just as a small example: Hampton is up over 42% from 3 now on the season, which is getting close to elite and we got him all of one shot last night.
Who was that cat from the basketball mecca of England? Or Sidy Ndir? Or Eric Vila?Pumpkinhead said:I don't know about that...Gilder is a pretty good shooter. And Hogg was ranked as the best SF shooter in his HS recruiting class. LOTS of other major programs would have gladly taken DJ Hogg.Tribe2013 said:
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
I'm talking about those guys. I love Gilder, and Hogg has a lot of potential (I just don't think his skill set are optimized in a motion offense. I think he'd explode in a high/low or triangle)
I think it is still too early to give up on Vila. He came over from Spain in August right before school started. Probably a lot of adjusting to do. The kid is not necessarily a 'bust' yet (assuming he doesn't transfer). Just that he was a 'bust' for 2016-2017.Tribe2013 said:Who was that cat from the basketball mecca of England? Or Sidy Ndir? Or Eric Vila?Pumpkinhead said:I don't know about that...Gilder is a pretty good shooter. And Hogg was ranked as the best SF shooter in his HS recruiting class. LOTS of other major programs would have gladly taken DJ Hogg.Tribe2013 said:
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
I'm talking about those guys. I love Gilder, and Hogg has a lot of potential (I just don't think his skill set are optimized in a motion offense. I think he'd explode in a high/low or triangle)
He just wasn't ready for college ball.Pumpkinhead said:I think it is still too early to give up on Vila. He came over from Spain in August right before school started. Probably a lot of adjusting to do. The kid is not necessarily a 'bust' yet (assuming he doesn't transfer). Just that he was a 'bust' for 2016-2017.Tribe2013 said:Who was that cat from the basketball mecca of England? Or Sidy Ndir? Or Eric Vila?Pumpkinhead said:I don't know about that...Gilder is a pretty good shooter. And Hogg was ranked as the best SF shooter in his HS recruiting class. LOTS of other major programs would have gladly taken DJ Hogg.Tribe2013 said:
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
I'm talking about those guys. I love Gilder, and Hogg has a lot of potential (I just don't think his skill set are optimized in a motion offense. I think he'd explode in a high/low or triangle)
I'm hoping that Tonny is a poor man's Vila rather than the other way around. Without bashing him too much, Trocha plays a lot better when he's not thinking so much.
Kennedy teams have historically been terrible at 3 point shooting. To me, it seems to be a combination of fundamentals, play calling, and tentativeness. Shooting is a mindset. When BK lets them play (down double digits), they seem to ball out and hit shots.
Looking back, his SEL teams were really bad at 3 PT%.
They improved vastly in the last two years at Murray State thanks to a future NBA player Canaan.
Best season with A&M was Elston & Fabyon, who created their own shots most of the time.
Looking back, his SEL teams were really bad at 3 PT%.
They improved vastly in the last two years at Murray State thanks to a future NBA player Canaan.
Best season with A&M was Elston & Fabyon, who created their own shots most of the time.
Something happens when they get here. I think it has to do with a system that doesn't encourage open play. Since Kennedy's been here we have never had an offense that flows and I think it reps away the confidence of our players. A guy like DJ Hogg is an elite level shooter but he struggles to get looks in rhythm.
Completely agree T-cam. It's been hard to watch this offense over the years. They were able to overcome a lot of that with the talent we had in place.
Hogg's body language says it all. He has zero confidence shooting the ball.
Hogg's body language says it all. He has zero confidence shooting the ball.
DJ Hogg was a 'streaky' shooter in High School. He is almost 6'9" and his shooting form looks really sharp, but all the people who watched him at Plano West said he was the type of shooter to go hot and cold. He looks the part though.t - cam said:
Something happens when they get here. I think it has to do with a system that doesn't encourage open play. Since Kennedy's been here we have never had an offense that flows and I think it reps away the confidence of our players. A guy like DJ Hogg is an elite level shooter but he struggles to get looks in rhythm.
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bobinator said:
I think the fundamentals of setting your feet, spacing the floor, rotating the ball quickly, etc are more of a reason we suck at shooting threes than our actual ability to shoot threes.
Just as a small example: Hampton is up over 42% from 3 now on the season, which is getting close to elite and we got him all of one shot last night.
Spot on observation. In almost all cases in basketball, shooting percentage is a direct relation to the quality of shot than it is anything else.
Is a hop-shooter the antithesis of the no-jumper?
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Pumpkinhead said:
Not sure about three point shooting, but you will very likely have a roster with more guys capable of breaking defenses down off the dribble and going fast to the basket with a purpose.
Will probably be a totally different look than watching guys like Hampton, Collins, and Carlton passing the ball around the perimeter.
And usually when you have guys who are able to break teams down off the dribble, you get better three point looks. Because they either collapse the defense or because defenders don't close out on the shot quite as hard because they are worried of getting blown by. the pu-pu platter of Hampton/Collins/etc. is almost zero threat to scare folks with their handles or athleticism, and even Gilder seems so-so as a slasher type. He seems to do his best work as a catch-and-shoot off-guard.
Another excellent post. Josh Carter was a two-star freshman phenom in 2007 because he had Acie Law feeding him wide open looks from the wing all day long. The defense was a lot more worried about Law than Carter.
Thought he was a 3 star. Not that it negates the point.
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Method Man said:
Thought he was a 3 star. Not that it negates the point.
Some services had him a three-star...some at two-star. If I recall, he had very nominal offers when A&M got him. I'd have to go back and look to be sure.
And he was a sophomore in 2007, not a freshmanMethod Man said:
Thought he was a 3 star. Not that it negates the point.
He was pretty good in 2006 as well.wacarnolds said:And he was a sophomore in 2007, not a freshmanMethod Man said:
Thought he was a 3 star. Not that it negates the point.
The year doesn't really matter does it?
Pretty good? Yest - cam said:He was pretty good in 2006 as well.wacarnolds said:And he was a sophomore in 2007, not a freshmanMethod Man said:
Thought he was a 3 star. Not that it negates the point.
Phenomenal? No
t - cam said:
Something happens when they get here. I think it has to do with a system that doesn't encourage open play. Since Kennedy's been here we have never had an offense that flows and I think it reps away the confidence of our players. A guy like DJ Hogg is an elite level shooter but he struggles to get looks in rhythm.
Our shooters are shooting fine. Admon, JC and DJ combined are over 40% which is excellent.
The reason we have low shooting percentages is that Tonny, Robert Williams (0 for 12), Vila (0 for the season), Chris Collins, Caleb Smith, Chase Carlton are combined under 20%. Some of those guys are potentially good shooters but for various reasons they haven't shot well this year.
The biggest issues is Tonny as several have noted. Tonny is an okay 3 point shooter when he is shooting wide open, straight away, in rhythm. When he is shooting off the dribble or off balance he is terrible. I think several have hit the nail on the head that we have no other option but to play him on the perimeter and hence our overall team percentage is down.
He needs to take 500 threes a day this off season. Not that I necessarily want him taking a ton of threes next year but he needs that to be a more efficient part of his game.
I also don't think we need to find more shooters. We just need to get more shots for our good shooters (next year primarily DJ and Admon) and I think having some guys that can get to the rim will help a ton. When Tonny or Collins or one of the other guys I mentioned above is on the perimeter, he throws off the whole defense. Even if the other guy isn't a great shooter (say Flagg or JJ) the fact that he can get to the room means the defense can't ignore him. As it is now they can double in the post generally without the need to drop off Admon.
Also, while JC is a very good shooter he is short and slow which makes it relatively easy to close out on him.
Tj starks can shoot the lights out though. Remember when there was all the talk about dj being the best shooter in his class, and then some people looked at the stats and realized that admon made more threes at a higher percentage than dj, even though most people didn't think of him as a shooter?
That is what tj is like.
That is what tj is like.
Side note: why wouldn't anyone shoot 500 shots a day in offseason.
DJ can carry on the tradition.Quote:
Will probably be a totally different look than watching guys like Hampton, Collins, and Carlton passing the ball around the perimeter.
Quote:
Our shooters are shooting fine. Admon, JC and DJ combined are over 40% which is excellent.
Hogg hasn't shot better than .333 from deep or overall in a month, and even prior to that was incredibly streaky.
He's had several monster games, but has just as many, if not more, where he can't make anything.
He's under .400 overall and at .367 from three.
While neither is bad, that's not what I would consider "excellent." Given his streakiness I would say he's certainly not "excellent."
Perhaps he should have focused on adjusting his culture and dress and less time adjusting his shooting mechanics. He has awful form. He might learn to shoot, but right now he's not a shooter.Pumpkinhead said:I think it is still too early to give up on Vila. He came over from Spain in August right before school started. Probably a lot of adjusting to do. The kid is not necessarily a 'bust' yet (assuming he doesn't transfer). Just that he was a 'bust' for 2016-2017.Tribe2013 said:Who was that cat from the basketball mecca of England? Or Sidy Ndir? Or Eric Vila?Pumpkinhead said:I don't know about that...Gilder is a pretty good shooter. And Hogg was ranked as the best SF shooter in his HS recruiting class. LOTS of other major programs would have gladly taken DJ Hogg.Tribe2013 said:
They've gone out and gotten a number of "pure shooters." The only problem is that they're apparently terrible at identifying who is truly a talented "pure shooter."
I'm talking about those guys. I love Gilder, and Hogg has a lot of potential (I just don't think his skill set are optimized in a motion offense. I think he'd explode in a high/low or triangle)
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I think you are missing my point. All I am saying is that we have three shooters on the team. Admon, JC and DJ. Admon is actually leading the SEC in 3 pt percentage in conference games. Combined, those three are shooting at an excellent (yes, excellent) percentage.TheAngelFlight said:Quote:
Our shooters are shooting fine. Admon, JC and DJ combined are over 40% which is excellent.
Hogg hasn't shot better than .333 from deep or overall in a month, and even prior to that was incredibly streaky.
He's had several monster games, but has just as many, if not more, where he can't make anything.
He's under .400 overall and at .367 from three.
While neither is bad, that's not what I would consider "excellent." Given his streakiness I would say he's certainly not "excellent."
The reason our team 3 pt percenage is low overall is that 1) we have a bunch of other guys that are (statistically at least) bad shooters that we have to play at guard due to lack of depth (Collins, Kobie, etc.). These guys don't take a ton but they shoot a very low percentage and 2) we have a couple of bigs who take way too many and at a low percentage (mainly Tonny but also Rob).
My point was in response to somebody who implied that something mysterious and bad happens to shooters in College Station. I am just saying that no, our actual shooters shoot well. We just have had bad shooter shoot way too many.
Quote:
Admon is actually leading the SEC in 3 pt percentage in conference games.
There you go Method Man. At least one proven good 3-point shooter will be on next year's team.
boomPumpkinhead said:Quote:
Admon is actually leading the SEC in 3 pt percentage in conference games.
There you go Method Man. At least one proven good 3-point shooter will be on next year's team.
Actually, Method Man, check this out. Texas A&M has 2 of the top 5 in the SEC in 3P% right now.
http://secsports.go.com/statistics/mens-basketball/player/three-points/threePointFieldGoalPct
The top-5 in 3P% are:
1) Riley LaChance (Vandy) - 49.1%
2) Nolan Cressler (Vandy) - 45.9%
3) Rakym Felder (South Carolina) - 44.3%
4) JC Hampton (A&M) - 43.9%
5) Admon Gilder (A&M) - 42.1%
When Hampton and Gilder have let it fly behind the arc, doesn't seem to have been a big issue in terms of the ball going going in.
Our really high turnover rate is perhaps the biggest pain point for why this 2016-2017 bunch struggled so much. Even Gilder our best guard often turns it over too much. He had 6 turnovers vs. Auburn (or 5 if you give him a mulligan for his off the backboard screwup oop attempt to Williams)
http://secsports.go.com/statistics/mens-basketball/player/three-points/threePointFieldGoalPct
The top-5 in 3P% are:
1) Riley LaChance (Vandy) - 49.1%
2) Nolan Cressler (Vandy) - 45.9%
3) Rakym Felder (South Carolina) - 44.3%
4) JC Hampton (A&M) - 43.9%
5) Admon Gilder (A&M) - 42.1%
When Hampton and Gilder have let it fly behind the arc, doesn't seem to have been a big issue in terms of the ball going going in.
Our really high turnover rate is perhaps the biggest pain point for why this 2016-2017 bunch struggled so much. Even Gilder our best guard often turns it over too much. He had 6 turnovers vs. Auburn (or 5 if you give him a mulligan for his off the backboard screwup oop attempt to Williams)
^
And Davis.
And Davis.
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