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Not really, but you keep on believing it.

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Then provide proof it wasn't a BS excuse used to cover for BK's incompetence. You still haven't provided any evidence BK "greatly" improved our APR either.

Let me guess, because texags staff said it, it is golden. Give me a break. The buckets of BS and poorly contrived spin they have used to justify BK is embarrassing.

Good luck to him.

Georgia State would be a good mid-major, but I'd think he'd do well at Iowa State under hoiberg

Best wishes to him. He will land on his feet.

Watch where he lands. If it's a high end coach that'll speak volumes to how mismanaged Fitz was. If it's a low end it'll show BK handled things correctly. I really have no idea. I'm a big believer in you earn your minutes. I saw nothing last year that screamed great player about to bust out from Fitz. Looked interesting, but way overhyped around here. But I'm in the camp that Kennedy just churns the roster looking for Daniel House types who can play without being coached or managed. I think AC speaks volumes to the Billy Kennedy coaching style. AC needs coaching in a very extreme way. It's sad as there is a good player under the mess he has been allowed to become.

AC could be a great player with good coaching.

Kevin Ollie had major APR issues, not made up APR issues and won a title. That's how much APR hampers things.

AC is the classic example of what's wrong with Billy Kennedys style of coaching.

Why does Johns have a scholarship?

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But if it doesn't hurt APR why even bring it up? Hate him all you want for his coaching but it's a fact that he greatly improved the APR
numbers here.

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Because it shows the APR argument for him is BS. It was used time and time again to defend his crappy roster management. The fact is, BK is a crappy roster manager and it has been demonstrated through out his career. His coaching technique is to basically keep turning over a the roster until he gets one that he cannot screw up through his coaching.

And what proof do you have he greatly improved APR numbers?

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APR by year:

2012/2013 (latest available) - 980
2011/2012 - 973
2010/2011 - 907
2009/2010 - 846
2008/2009 - 980 (prior to '08-'09 the single year APR was not provided)

Basically the four year average APR is what determines any penalties. Starting in '14/'15, a 930 average is required to avoid penalty. Prior to that it was 900. Basically for 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 we needed to average at least 923.5 APR to avoid being under the 900 mark and getting penalized. Doesn't seem like a high hurdle to clear, but we had to do substantially better than the previous two years.

It doesn't look like overall there were consistent APR issues under Turgeon, just that one year with the 846 that had the potential to screw things up for us. Only need an 860 in '13-'14 to meet the 930 four year average requirement when the next report comes out.

Edit: Maybe the point people associated with the program were trying to make when talking about APR is that due to the necessity to maintain above a 923 average for those two years, Kennedy couldn't just come in and clean house, or take too many chances on grade risks in recruiting. None of us here know for sure either way, but it at least seems plausible.

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It doesn't look like overall there were consistent APR issues under Turgeon, just that one year with the 846 that had the potential to screw
things up for us.

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So basically the idea that Turgeon left a huge APR mess for BK is greatly overstated? Color me shocked.

My guess is if Turgeon stayed, he would have dealt with that bad year too (you know we have tutors/academic support specialists/etc. to deal with this) and gotten the APR up. Apparently the mythology that Turgeon was letting the program crash and burn is more BK supporter BS.

Congrats on BK getting his APR to the same level of Turgeon's high of 980 in 08-09.

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Maybe the point people associated with the program were trying to make when talking about APR is that due to the necessity to maintain above a
923 average for those two years, Kennedy couldn't just come in and clean
house, or take too many chances on grade risks in recruiting.

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It is a stupid point because apparently BK (the HC being paid $1 million a year) cannot be counted to on to coach up the players he inherited, and he needs to be able to trapdoor a roster en mass and recruit grade risks to be successful. It is a dumb excuse to try to cover for BK's failures and it always has been.

exactly. the APR thing was never an issue. the issue was that APR requirements were going up across the NCAA, so every coach at every school in 2011 was dealing with a raising of the APR minimums.
kennedy put it out there repeatedly during his excuse making tour after his second season - he had been given a complete pass for the failure of season 1, but when season 2 went arguably worse than season one, he needed some excuses and the big donor ags who only care about football swallowed the APR excuse hook, line, and sinker.

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It doesn't look like overall there were consistent APR issues under Turgeon, just that one year with the 846 that had the potential to screw
things up for us.

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So basically the idea that Turgeon left a huge APR mess for BK is greatly overstated? Color me shocked.

My guess is if Turgeon stayed, he would have dealt with that bad year too (you know we have tutors/academic support specialists/etc. to deal with this) and gotten the APR up. Apparently the mythology that Turgeon was letting the program crash and burn is more BK supporter BS.

I agree, he probably would have dealt with the issue and certainly wasn't letting the program crash and burn. The only valid criticism someone can put on Turgeon is that he left his successor with a much weaker roster than the one he inherited, especially in terms of underclassmen.

Congrats on BK getting his APR to the same level of Turgeon's high of 980 in 08-09.

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Maybe the point people associated with the program were trying to make when talking about APR is that due to the necessity to maintain above a
923 average for those two years, Kennedy couldn't just come in and clean
house, or take too many chances on grade risks in recruiting.

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It is a stupid point because apparently BK (the HC being paid $1 million a year) cannot be counted to on to coach up the players he inherited, and he needs to be able to trapdoor a roster en mass and recruit grade risks to be successful. It is a dumb excuse to try to cover for BK's failures and it always has been.

Neither you nor I know what the real situation in the locker room was with that team, which of those players should have been released due to poor attitude or skill level, or if we actually passed on grade risks in recruiting because they could have damaged the APR, so I will refrain from commenting on whether it is a stupid point or dumb excuse.

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The only way APR affected Kennedy is that he wasn't able to run off a significant portion of the roster and fill it up with "his guys" right away. Other than that, APR was NOT a problem. We never lost scholarships, weren't put on probation, weren't banned from post-season play, didn't lose television coverage, or whatever else you can think of. It did nothing to our program but keep Kennedy from going after "Kennedy players." And considering the rate that guys he's brought in stay for a year and then transfer, I'm not convinced that Kennedy knows what a "Kennedy player" is either.

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He made this argument. What I want to know, is who were these guys he couldn't get rid of? Every player who he inherited was a contributor or got run off. Who was it that he was stuck with? Jordan Green? That he had to keep Keith Davis for some extra time or something?

Here's the list of players he inherited.

Elston Turner - started for Kennedy
Khris Middleton - started for Kennedy left early
David Loubeau - started for Kennedy
Ray Turner - started for Kennedy
Dash Harris - started for Kennedy
Kourtney Roberson - started for Kennedy
Jordan Green - started for Kennedy
Jamal Branch - RUNNOFT immediately
Naji Hibbert - RUNNOFT
Daniel Alexander - RUNNOFT
Kieth Davis - RUNNOFT

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Here's the list of players he inherited.

Elston Turner - started for Kennedy
Khris Middleton - started for Kennedy left early
David Loubeau - started for Kennedy
Ray Turner - started for Kennedy
Dash Harris - started for Kennedy
Kourtney Roberson - started for Kennedy
Jordan Green - started for Kennedy
Jamal Branch - RUNNOFT immediately
Naji Hibbert - RUNNOFT
Daniel Alexander - RUNNOFT immediately
Kieth Davis - RUNNOFT

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no way to spin this.

but old white guys eat up the excuses.

The vast majority of people we've had transfer are ones he brought in himself. I can only guess that the players who he couldn't get rid of were his own mistakes too.

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Neither you nor I know what the real situation in the locker room was with that team, which of those players should have been released due to
poor attitude or skill level, or if we actually passed on grade risks
in recruiting because they could have damaged the APR, so I will refrain
from commenting on whether it is a stupid point or dumb excuse.

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You can refrain from commenting but it doesn't make it any less a stupid point or dumb excuse. The APR thing has been proven to be a red herring in relation to BK's real deficiencies as a HC.

BK is a mediocre coach at best and a bad one at worst. He has a history of roster turnover, because he is simply not good at developing players. The whole APR myth was pushed forward by the AD to cover for his failings as a HC and terrible first year here. The problem is four years in, it is pretty apparent how BK works and what kind of coach he is, so the APR argument looks even more ridiculous than it initially was.

I mean the idea that BK is a good coach (laughable) and he couldn't demonstrate that because he couldn't trapdoor an entire roster due to APR issues is one of the most insane things I have ever heard in college basketball.

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Here's the list of players he inherited.

Elston Turner - started for Kennedy
Khris Middleton - started for Kennedy left early
David Loubeau - started for Kennedy
Ray Turner - started for Kennedy
Dash Harris - started for Kennedy
Kourtney Roberson - started for Kennedy
Jordan Green - started for Kennedy
Jamal Branch - RUNNOFT immediately
Naji Hibbert - RUNNOFT
Daniel Alexander - RUNNOFT
Kieth Davis - RUNNOFT

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All those starters were really bad apples BK couldn't trap door immediately.

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The vast majority of people we've had transfer are ones he brought in himself. I can only guess that the players who he couldn't get rid of were his own mistakes too.

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Turgeon transfers
Naji
Jamal
Alexander
Davis

Kennedy Transfers
Jmychal
Fitzgerald
Andrew Young
Space
Shawn Smith
Jamal Jones



36% of the people Kennedy inherited transferred
46% of the people Kennedy himself recruited have transferred


That's right, almost half of the players Kennedy personally chose have already transferred. And there is defintitely potential for more before the offseason is over.

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almost half of the players Kennedy personally chose have already transferred.

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I agree that while transfers are getting pretty common and not that big an issue to a certain extent, just like Sumlin's 2013 football recruiting class which has had absolutely awful attrition with a greater than even the normal number of losses that you would expect...IMO life gets a lot more difficult if your revolving door is revolving at like 50% of your recruits. I have to think that makes it a heck of a lot harder to get wins.

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The vast majority of people we've had transfer are ones he brought in himself. I can only guess that the players who he couldn't get rid of were his own mistakes too.

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Turgeon transfers
Naji - Relatively talented but never really found his niche, whether under Turgeon or Kennedy. Rumored attitude issues.
Jamal - Sucked to see him go at the time. It's said that he couldn't get past not starting over Dash. Based on his overall career, I'm not too upset about this one.
Alexander - Just not that good of a player. I don't lose any sleep over this one.
Davis - Just not that good of a player and rumored attitude issues. I don't lose any sleep over this one.

Kennedy Transfers
Jmychal - Kicked off for drug use. I don't really consider this one a transfer.
Fitzgerald - Has big potential but saw the writing on the wall. His senior year would have been his first to be a major contributor. Great guy and hope it works out for him.
Andrew Young - Didn't work out at the D1 level. Would never have been a contributor on a good team.
Space - Saw the writing on the wall and left for playing time. Great guy and hope it works out for him.
Shawn Smith - Rumored attitude issues, he wouldn't have been a major contributor moving forward.
Jamal Jones - Rumored attitude issues and transferred due to loyalty to Cyp. This also made room for House.

36% of the people Kennedy inherited transferred
46% of the people Kennedy himself recruited have transferred

That's right, almost half of the players Kennedy personally chose have already transferred. And there is defintitely potential for more before the offseason is over.

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Are you holding the transfers out to be a bad thing?

The only three that sting at all in my mind are Branch, Fitz, and Reese. Reese most of all because he had a ton of potential.

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I agree that while transfers are getting pretty common and not that big an issue to a certain extent, just like Sumlin's 2013 football
recruiting class which has had absolutely awful attrition with a greater
than even the normal number of losses that you would expect...IMO life
gets a lot more difficult if your revolving door is revolving at like
50% of your recruits. I have to think that makes it a heck of a lot
harder to get wins.

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There are classes that just have major attrition. That happens but when you have well above the average rate of attrition every year for every class, there is a program issue. Unfortunately, the BK supporters have tried to have it both ways only to have their arguments blow up in their face.

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Are you holding the transfers out to be a bad thing?

The only three that sting at all in my mind are Branch, Fitz, and Reese. Reese most of all because he had a ton of potential.

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Constant transfers are a bad thing when one of the main excuses for the coach's failures is that he needs more time to get his players. He has had his players for a couple of years now and that is still not enough. But of course is it is not going to be enough, when the coach turns over nearly 50% of his recruits. It also signals the coach is a bad judge of talent and/or doing a poor job of developing it. In BK's case the transfers are just a sign that he is basically trying to throw together a roster that will cover his sorry coaching instead of developing a roster through good coaching.

Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the
subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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So you don't hold BK responsible for nearly 50% of his recruits being so bad they have to leave the program rather than becoming solid contributors?

Okay, Mrs. Kennedy.

Does drug issues count ?

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Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the
subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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So you don't hold BK responsible for nearly 50% of his recruits being so bad they have to leave the program rather than becoming solid contributors?

Okay, Mrs. Kennedy.

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I didn't say that whatsoever. I'm speaking strictly about those guys leaving A&M without regard to why they were recruited here in the first place. Kennedy's '12 and '13 recruiting classes were absolutely horrid and he deserves full blame for that. Both were ranked 9th compared to other SEC teams. Turgeon's last recruiting class was also 9th compared to the rest of the SEC.

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Are you holding the transfers out to be a bad thing?

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Yes.

Because it is a part of Kennedy's lies and excuse making.

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Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the
subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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So you don't hold BK responsible for nearly 50% of his recruits being so bad they have to leave the program rather than becoming solid contributors?

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Right.

At some point, you need continuity within the program. Even Kentucky has managed to miss the NCAA Tournament because even all the talent in the world often can't overcome a lack of continuity.

For all the great things new player Danuel House did for us, I can remember him laying some complete eggs early-ish on in the new season and when that lined up with new player Jalen Jones having an off night, you get losses to mediocre Kansas State and stole our 11-seed Dayton.

And I'm sure those two games were at least partly a result of the same problem Kentucky has. Even great players need time and continuity.

Sometimes you can't avoid transfers because you just don't have enough minutes for everyone, but when players are leaving left and right at the rate we've lost players, you've got deeper problems than a lack of minutes to go around.

Edit- I'm not saying we're unique in this regard, other programs certainly have the same issues. But they're often smaller programs or major conference programs that similarly aren't making the NCAA Tournament.

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you've got deeper problems

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Don't we all know it (except for the ignorant few).

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Kennedy's '12 and '13 recruiting classes were absolutely horrid and he deserves full blame for that. Both were ranked 9th compared to other
SEC teams. Turgeon's last recruiting class was also 9th compared to the
rest of the SEC.

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Why are you talking about Turgeon? He hasn't been here for four years now. This mess is all BK. This is why we make fun of you Mrs. Kennedy. This is about your husband's revolving door roster and you bring up a coach who left four years ago. BK was, is, and continues to be the problem with A&M basketball. Only fools cannot see it.

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Right.

At some point, you need continuity within the program. Even Kentucky has managed to miss the NCAA Tournament because even all the talent in the world often can't overcome a lack of continuity.

For all the great things new player Danuel House did for us, I can remember him laying some complete eggs early-ish on in the new season and when that lined up with new player Jalen Jones having an off night, you get losses to mediocre Kansas State and stole our 11-seed Dayton.

And I'm sure those two games were at least partly a result of the same problem Kentucky has. Even great players need time and continuity.

Sometimes you can't avoid transfers because you just don't have enough minutes for everyone, but when players are leaving left and right at the rate we've lost players, you've got deeper problems than a lack of minutes to go around.

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Those deeper problems start and end with recruiting. The uptick in recruiting and attracting better talent to the program in recent years is actually accountable for a number of the transfers out.

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Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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Hibbert averaged 12 ppg at GMU and plays professionally in Greece apparently.

I take much bigger issue with Kennedy's complete inability to land even an average post player prior to Trocha this year than I do with ANY of the transfers out.

i wouldnt call trocha an average post player.

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Once the players that transferred start lighting it up at other schools, I'll look at the transfers as negatives. So far, nothing about the subsequent success of any of them concerns me in the least.

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Hibbert averaged 12 ppg at GMU and plays professionally in Greece apparently.

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That's against a very different level of competition while getting 32 minutes per game.

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i wouldnt call trocha an average post player.

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He will be. I would consider him average for a true freshman.