D RO Medical Redshirt

5,810 Views | 32 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by mallen
duckpluck
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I just read an article that mentions the school will seek to get a medical redshirt for Roland. What are the rules for that? I would think it is too late in the year and he has played too many games to get another year of eligibility.
Anyone have any insight into this?

[This message has been edited by duckpluck (edited 12/26/2009 9:09a).]
cs69ag
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AG
No one knows for sure, and it is discussed in several other threads. Bottom line is does not look good, but maybe there are some variables that we really are not aware of. I guess it never hurts to ask.
GBU-43/B
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An article can state anything. The rule is below (copy and past from the NCAA Division I Manual):

quote:
14.2.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference
or the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for reasons of “hardship.” Hardship is defined as an
incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised:
8/8/02, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)
(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any twoyear
or four-year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete’s senior year
in high school; (Revised: 1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 11/1/01, 8/8/02)
(b) The injury or illness occurs prior to the first competition of the second half of the playing season that concludes
with the NCAA championship in that sport (see Bylaw 14.2.4.3.4) and results in incapacity to compete
for the remainder of that playing season; (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01,
4/3/02, 4/24/08)
(c) In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three
contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is
greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only
scheduled or completed competition against outside participants during the playing season that concludes
with the NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season
in that sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), shall be countable under this limitation in calculating both the
number of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of
scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. Dates of competition
that are exempted (e.g., alumni contests, foreign team in the United States.) from the maximum permissible
number of contests or dates of competition shall count toward the number of contests or dates in which the
student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition
in the season, except for scrimmages and exhibition contests that are specifically identified as such in
the sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season regulations. Scrimmages and exhibition contests that are
not exempted from the maximum permissible number of contests or dates of competition may be excluded
from the calculation only if they are identified as such by in the sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season
regulations; and (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 3/10/04, 5/11/05, 8/4/05,
4/26/07, 9/18/07, 4/24/08)
(d) In individual sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than
three dates of competition or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the maximum permissible number
of dates of competition as set forth in Bylaw 17 plus one date for a conference championship (e.g., gymnastics:
13+1=14, wrestling: 16+1=17), regardless of whether the team participates in the conference championship,
provided the institution is a member of a conference and the conference holds a championship event
in the applicable sport. Dates of competition that are exempted per Bylaw 17 (e.g., alumni contests, foreign
team in the United States) from the maximum permissible number of dates of competition do not count
toward the number of dates in which the student-athlete has participated. (Adopted: 4/24/08)


It would seem that his ability to be granted a waiver would rest on the definition of "institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."

If it is only "scheduled" games, or any post-season games count as only 1 game (regardless of the number of post-season games), then Roland has competed in more than 30% of the games and wouldn't appear to be eligible for the waiver. There may be extinuating and mitigating factors that I am not aware of and there is always the following:

quote:
14.2.1.5 Additional Waivers. The Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, by a two-thirds majority
of its members present and voting, may approve such additional waivers to the five-year rule as it deems appropriate
(see Bylaw 30.6.1 for criteria).


Which does not appear in the "Hardship Waiver" section but appears to give the NCAA the power to approve the waiver for whatever reason they deem necessary.
Andrew99
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Show them the video...
Then threaten to show it again if they don't grant him the medical RS.

I would hope they grant an exception to a guy in his situation, regardless of who he is or what school he attends.
Keeper of The Spirits
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quote:

Bylaw 30.6.1 Any Student-Athlete from a schools whose official colors are crimson and creme, burnt orange or cardinal and gold will be approved for such additional waivers to the five-year rule, without question.

Roofle
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quote:
I would hope they grant an exception to a guy in his situation, regardless of who he is or what school he attends.
Just because it's gruesome, doesn't mean he deserves it more than any other athlete.

Think about being a guy who tears his ACL after playing the same amount of games as D-Ro not getting a medical, but D-Ro himself getting one. Wouldn't that make you furious that someone in your same situation got a redshirt simply because his injury was more gruesome?
TXAggie2011
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quote:
Which does not appear in the "Hardship Waiver" section but appears to give the NCAA the power to approve the waiver for whatever reason they deem necessary


Yes. They have the power to grant additional years of eligibility as they see fit. The rules in this case are more like "strong guidelines" and not "rules."
Keegan99
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Keeper of The Spirits - could you elaborate? What high profile cases has USC had?
Ervin Burrell
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Keeper +1...0% chance he gets a Medical Redshirt being an Aggie. If he'd been a Horn or Sooner however...
TXAggie2011
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Do y'all have any examples or are y'all just whining about nothing like this little girl?



[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 12/26/2009 2:10p).]
Karrde
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I've seen other posts talk about a redshirt that covered the calendar year of 2010, rather than a basketball season. I.E. he'd 'redshirt' for the spring semester of the 09-10 season, and the fall semester of the 10-11 season, and be eligible to play in the spring of 2011.

I believe the posters noted a basketball player from a different school that went a similar route after a fall injury, but for the life of me I can't remember the player/school.
Roofle
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quote:
I believe the posters noted a basketball player from a different school that went a similar route after a fall injury, but for the life of me I can't remember the player/school.
Wasn't it a guy from Tech last year or the year before?
chick79
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quote:
Do y'all have any examples or are y'all just whining about nothing like this little girl?


Jason White? Dusty Dvoracek? Jordan Shipley?
Herbie Verschmels
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guys even if he was granted a medical redshirt it wouldn't matter. you can't fully recover from an injury that bad in a year's time (if ever)
MaroonOut05
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There are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations in this thread. If you idiots have specific examples of preferential treatment towards other Universities, then offer them. If not, then please shut up because you're making A&M look foolish with your idiocy.
Keeper of The Spirits
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I really just threw USC in for good measure. They seem to be frequent bedfellows with the NCAA.

Jason White and Jordan Shipley for the other two. I have done no research to verify the similarities and differences.

If Alexis Wangmene got one, D-Ro should get one.

quote:
Wangmene played in four of the first five games for the Longhorns this past year and averaged 3.0 points and 3.0 rebounds in 6.3 minutes per contest. He had surgery on his right knee on Dec. 17 and missed the remainder of the season.


http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051109aaa.html

Regardless of factual proof, its really just fun to propagate to BOMC.

I apologize for making all Aggies look stupid.
Ervin Burrell
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quote:
There are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations in this thread.


Dusty Dvoracek got a 5th year because of alcoholism...forgive some of us for thinking the NCAA plays favorites.
bobinator
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Wangmene played in four games... not 11.
MaroonOut05
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quote:
Dusty Dvoracek got a 5th year because of alcoholism...forgive some of us for thinking the NCAA plays favorites.


Yes, because THAT situation is perfectly analogous within the context of this conversation. Nope, not a stretch whatsoever.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
Dusty Dvoracek got a 5th year because of alcoholism...forgive some of us for thinking the NCAA plays favorites.


That's the best you have?

Dvoracek hadn't played in more than 30% of their games and what not during the season he got the medical hardship waiver in...If Roland hadn't, he'd get a medical redshirt without question.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
I really just threw USC in for good measure. They seem to be frequent bedfellows with the NCAA.

Jason White and Jordan Shipley for the other two. I have done no research to verify the similarities and differences.

If Alexis Wangmene got one, D-Ro should get one.


So basically what you're saying is your whining like that little girl.

Atleast you're honest.
Keeper of The Spirits
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thats it. lets fight.
bojangles
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holy crap there are a lot of morons out tonight.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
Jason White? Dusty Dvoracek? Jordan Shipley?


Shipley missed an entire season. I think Jason White played in what? one, maybe two games? Similar for Dvoracek.

All of them, by rule, were qualified for a medial redshirt. And D-Ro would get one too if he, by rule, were qualified for it.

At any rate, here's a recent article about Demarcus Granger, the offensive lineman at OU that got denied an extra year.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-dt-granger-denied-medical-hardship-waiver/article/3412377?custom_click=rss
W
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don't forget White and Shipley were/are 6th year seniors, not even 5th year seniors. White played the entire 2004 season at age 24.

It was the situation with former A&M LB Keelan Jackson (medical denied) that contributed greatly (and perhaps appropriately) to the conspiracy theory
Gap
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The NCAA is heavily influenced by appearing to do what is right for the student athlete. If they felt the public sentiment was on the side of D Ro being granted a hardship due to the circumstances and timing of his season ending injury, it would likely happen.
Keeper of The Spirits
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Alcohol abuse is a pretty liberal interpretation of "injury or illness".

When it comes to medical redshirts it appears that they have been applied correctly in the past, based on what my quick google search rendered.


I do however think bigger programs receive favorable rulings from the NCAA. Look at the witch hunt led against Utah Basketball under Rick Majerus but virtually ignoring Reggie Bush's infractions at USC.

westtexastinman
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe the posters noted a basketball player from a different school that went a similar route after a fall injury, but for the life of me I can't remember the player/school.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasn't it a guy from Tech last year or the year before?


The NCAA gave their center Rizvik an extra half-year after he was injured (broken bones in face) by an intentional foul from an OU player in Tech's first Big XII game of the 2006-07 season (January of 2007).

He returned to Tech for the second half of the 2007-08 season.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10293605

quoting the article- "The committee had never granted an athlete a partial season of additional eligibility because of an injury, said Kevin Lennon, the NCAA's vice president for membership services. The unique circumstances of Rizvic's situation resulted in the the waiver."
Deleted1142021
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30% of the season is really not that much as we have not played in one conference game.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
don't forget White and Shipley were/are 6th year seniors, not even 5th year seniors. White played the entire 2004 season at age 24.


What does that have anything to do with it? Everyone has five years to play four. They lost one of their five and four to injury and were correctly given a medical hardship waiver.

quote:
It was the situation with former A&M LB Keelan Jackson (medical denied) that contributed greatly (and perhaps appropriately) to the conspiracy theory


You mean the guy that, by rule, shouldn't have recieved a medical hardship in the first place?


Do any of y'all conspiracy theorists have any actual examples of players at certain schools who weren't, by rule, eligible for a waiver but got one versus players at other schools that didn't get a waiver?
BusterAg
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Based on my biased, back of the envelop analysis that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, here is why I think that the probability of D-Ro getting a med shirt is greater than zero.

1) A good A&M basketball team is good for college basketball. We get pretty good TV ratings, and the rivalry games between Texas and OU bring in some revenue.

2) The injury is a national story because the video was so gruesom, and the response by our team, our fans and the entire state of Washington was notable.

3) While a good portion of the season is over, we haven't even made it into conference play yet.

4) If we are good enough to make the tournament this year, the med redshirt issue (whether D-ro gets it or not) will add to the backstory of the team come tournament time.

5) Everyone in the Big XII will back us, because every basketball game we play in in the tourney = 6 years of additional revenue for the conference.
mgmgrand
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Question...would the resulting two games after the opening round of the 76 Classic count in the 30% rule? I mean its kind of a stretch but those games aren't "officially" on the schedule. Without those two games, D-RO would have played in about 9.5 of 28 games, which is 33%. I mean its pretty close, and considering college basketball covers two semesters and this injury officially occured in teh first semester, i think there is a good chance he might get it. But my guess is as good as anyone's.
Faustus
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quote:
thats it. lets fight.


Funny stuff, Keeper of the Spirits.
jq2122
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Jordan Shipley never had a medical redshirt. He got a sixth year of eligibility, which is entirely different. A sixth year is granted to athletes who miss two complete seasons due to documented injuries that prevented them from playing at all during those 2 years. Medical redshirts are granted to athletes who are injured DURING a season but before the athlete has played more than 30% of his team's games.

Alexis Wangmene very clearly met the requirements for a medical redshirt, as he played only 4 games out of Texas's 35 games last year (11%).

Certainly anyone who is a basketball fan feels great sympathy for Derrick Roland and for his teammates for what they have lost, but y'all are advocating a special exception for Roland based solely on the "gruesomeness" of his injury and the fact that he's a senior. He is technically no more deserving of that exception than any other athlete who is injured beyond the 30% "deadline" for a medical redshirt. The comparison in a post above to a torn ACL is an apt one. Would that athlete be less deserving of a special exception because the pictures of his injury were easier to look at?

Claiming that Roland would immediately be granted another year if he were a Longhorn or a Sooner or a Trojan is crap. Jordan Shipley and the UT athletics department had to jump through tremendous hoops to get him a sixth year, despite having a clear-cut case. It took the NCAA six months to reach a decision, and Shipley wasn't even asking for an exception to the rules; he was merely asking them to follow the rules that already existed. Roland's situation is far less cut-and-dried than Shipley's was, so if you're expecting immediate empathy from the NCAA, you're going to be disappointed.
mallen
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quote:
If they felt the public sentiment was on the side of D Ro being granted a hardship due to the circumstances and timing of his season ending injury, it would likely happen.
Public sentiment is definitely on the side of Roland in this particular situation. However, per the NCAA guidelines, he will not be getting a medical redshirt. And I don't see any circumstantial evidence to support the NCAA breaking it's own guidelines.
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