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Queso w/Sodium Citrate

214,715 Views | 658 Replies | Last: 10 mo ago by ToddyHill
HTownAg98
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quote:
Gator2, please 'splain your aggie math.

Usually a formula adds up to 100% unless you are using the cheese in the same way as Bakers Percentage uses flour; i.e., 100% and then everything is expressed relative to that.

Edited to add the comparison below.

From your post:

Bakers percentage
100% cheese
93% water
4% sodium citrate

Pulled from a body cavity:

Absolute percent
Cheese 100 = 50.76%
Water 93 = 47.21%
Sodium Citrate 4 = 2.03%
Total = 100%

Also, FWIW: When doing product development work, my personal preference was the latter as it was easier to remember standard ballpark percentages of the total; e.g., soups and stews are usually salted close to 1% of the total. Having said that, however when adding things such as emulsifiers and anti-oxidants one has to figure out the total fat in the product and apply the chemical accordingly.

Since the simple formula used for illustration contains water and no tomato, Rotel or pickled jalapenos, etc. there is no acidic ingredient to make the addition of sodium citrate necessary. I believe what was never explained or has become lost in 8 pages is that the function of sodium citrate is to buffer the acid ingredients, raising the pH to the point where the dairy proteins are not so tightly precipitated that they exhibit a sandy mouthfeel.

I think I have spoken the truth, but it's getting to be evening even on the left coast.



[This message has been edited by JTMW (edited 2/9/2014 10:09p).]

Either will work, depending on what you've learned. For me, baker's percentages work best. But you're wrong on the science behind sodium citrate.
quote:
Sodium citrate allows the proteins in the cheese sauce to become more soluble while lowering the pH of the sauce, which creates a smooth emulsion without curdling. Though citric acid will also lower the pH, it will not work on proteins as sodium citrate does. Using citric acid will result in a soupy or grainy texture instead of a silky emulsion.
JTMW
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AG
Htown, tis always good to learn something on TexAgs. After reading a bit, it does, in fact appear that sodium citrate has emulsification properties similar to it's phosphate cousins. What is puzzling for the moment is one site describes sodium citrate as a "sour salt" which may be used as an acidulant. The MSDS for sodium citrate shows the pH as about 8.0. From basic chemistry, we were always told that the salt of a strong base (sodium hydroxide) and a weak acid (citric), in solution, would yield a pH of > 7.

Regardless, it works. BTW I want to get another dig in at Kraft for cheapening and basically destroying Velveeta by going from cheese food to cheese spread to whatever they sell now. I guess it can be called dairy product, but I'm not even sure about that.
Gator2_01
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AG
JTMW, the scaling in the percentages I posted is to be applied as bakers use flour.

The rest of your words went WAAAY over my simple Aggie mind.
Linz02Ag
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AG
Finally ordered some. 2 oz for $10 or 14 oz for $13.99, weird price points
gougler08
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AG
ttt cause I'm making some w/ pepper jack cheese tonight
TennAg
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I use this for my brocolli au gratin. shred some sharp cheddar on top with some crushed croutons and you have yourself a dish.
Agasaurus Tex
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AG
Tried some today with asadero cheese. Outstanding.
Sooner Born
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quote:
Finally ordered some. 2 oz for $10 or 14 oz for $13.99, weird price points

Apparently there's a ton of overhead involved in manufacturing this.
coppag92
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AG
anyone done with gorgonzola cheese and how did it turn out?
HTownAg98
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Yes, it's stupidly awesome. It makes a great fondue. Serve it with some seared chunks of rare steak, some bread cubes, and pears.

[This message has been edited by HTownAg98 (edited 4/13/2014 10:09p).]
rononeill
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Anyone know of any brick/mortar suppliers in Houston? Got a Mac n chz on the boards for Sunday- figured it'd be a good time to try this out-
BSD
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AG
Ron, I've looked but have had no luck. If you order now off Amazon, it might be here in time for the weekend.
amanda04
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AG
Anyone in B/CS have some that they'd be willing to share or let me buy a small amount? I was thinking of mac and cheese this week, and reading all these posts have me thinking I should try it this week, but I don't have enough time for shipping.
Van Buren Boy
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AG
I ordered mine from modernist pantry with regular shipping right before thanksgiving. Received it in Dallas in two days. Not sure if that helps.
bmc13
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Linz02Ag
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AG
Anyone have a good recipe link for Mac & cheese, modernistcuisine or otherwise? Every link from pages 1 & 2 is not working
JFrench
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AG
Search the modernist cuisine site and it pulls up the mac and cheese.

I’m part of the club now. I did the mac and cheese this weekend and it was great. Looking forward to trying better cheeses and other recipes with it.
Quantum ace
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AG
I did the mac n cheese with an assortment of random cheeses we had hanging out in the fridge, and it turned out amazing. I am looking forward to trying it out with better cheese as well. Any recommendations?
Linz02Ag
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AG
Just made it with:
1 C. water
1.5 t. Na citrate
8 oz Cabot Sharp White Cheddar
2 oz Sargento Pepper Jack

Used half for Mac & cheese and half as queso

Soo good!!
HTownAg98
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quote:
I did the mac n cheese with an assortment of random cheeses we had hanging out in the fridge, and it turned out amazing. I am looking forward to trying it out with better cheese as well. Any recommendations?

So a liquid fromage forte. Very nice.
Use whatever melting cheese you like.
fta09
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AG
I finally got the chance to try this out. This stuff is delicious. I'll never be eating that Velveeta garbage again.
rononeill
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crisis averted! amazon will have it at my house by Friday. i hope its good, because I'll have about 392grams of it left afterwards!
HTownAg98
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Once you try it, you will use it faster than you think you will.
Linz02Ag
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AG
quote:
Once you try it, you will use it faster than you think you will.
This. Glad I got the 14oz size
ChipFTAC01
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AG
A few weeks ago we had some fondue with idiazabal (from Churascos in Houston) that was pretty much amazing. Idiazabal is a Spanish sheep's milk cheese.

Any reason that I shouldn't be able to try and whip up some fondue of my own with the sodium citrate?
redd38
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AG
bump cause i don't want to lose this thread
rilloaggie
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AG
Made my first batch with some mild cheddar and habanero jack cheese. Damn
ftworthag02
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AG
Been eating that queso ever since uncle Julio's opened here in Fort Worth in the early 90s. Sister waited tables there during her summers home from a&m. So good!
redd38
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AG
Made a batch last night, instead of water I used a stick of butter and some heavy cream. It was pretty damn yummy.
jcbaggie04
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AG
Made some to go with fajitas our friends were making last night. Ended up going with 1 c water 1 1/4 t citrate 4 oz Monty jack 4 oz pepperjack diced jalapeño and 8oz ground beef. There were no leftovers. :-)
CDub06
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AG
Tis the season
jcbaggie04
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AG
Just a quick bump, I made a quick batch of mac & cheese for family Christmas lunch and got rave reviews yet again. My grandfather fought everyone off to keep the little bit that remained for his lunch the next day!
gougler08
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AG
So the last couple times I've made this it's been pretty runny and I've followed the OPs recipe exactly (just used rotel instead of fresh veggies cause I'm lazy). Any ideas on how to get it to thicken up?
Josepi
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AG
quote:
So the last couple times I've made this it's been pretty runny and I've followed the OPs recipe exactly (just used rotel instead of fresh veggies cause I'm lazy). Any ideas on how to get it to thicken up?
Same here, except I use real vegetables instead of Rotel. My last two batches have almost been like water
ChipFTAC01
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AG
Yeah, I haven't made it in a few months because my last two batches were so bad.
 
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