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Whats in your wine cellar?

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htxag09
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9:10a, 2/16/24
AG
We kind of plan our restaurants based on this. If we want to enjoy a dinner with good wine we'll specifically go to a restaurant that allows us to bring a bottle.

We kind of stopped going to nice steakhouses for this reason. Pappas Bros is our favorite restaurant but their wines are crazy. If we really want to celebrate we'll just suck it up. But haven't been in at least 4 years….I just don't enjoy paying $300+ (+ tip, which expectations on this are equally as asinine as markups) for a $100 bottle of wine.

We've found a few places in houston that have reasonable prices and a solid selection. And generally we'll stick to stuff off the beaten path (beaujolais, blaufrankisch, etc.) One, they're generally cheaper, two, if I'm paying an up charge I'd rather get something that's not as easily accessible.

Other than that I'll stick to cocktails or beer at restaurants.
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cecil77
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In reply to Objective Aggie • 9:39a, 2/16/24
AG
To expand a bit. Like many of you, my wine selection at home is better than all but a few restaurants. I'll gladly pay a reasonable corkage ("reasonable" depends upon the food prices at the restaurant), and it's surprising just how many restaurants will allow you if you ask. Even some with a mixed beverage permit that aren't supposed to let you will upon occasion.

I just can't (i.e. won't) pay 2.5X of my price for a bottle of wine at a restaurant. And the lower the price at the restaurant, the higher the multiplier.

So I will just enjoy a good beer.
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QBCade
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10:02a, 2/16/24
AG
I'm high maintenance. I decant my wine at home for a couple hrs, put back in bottle and take to restaurant. Living in CA, especially NorCal, you can bring your own wine everywhere.
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FTAco07
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10:12a, 2/16/24
AG
I'm similar to everyone else for restaurant wine purchases. I generally try to find off the beaten path regions or varietals I don't generally drink that are lower price points. I've had lots of wines from Portugal, Spain, Sicily, Greece, Lebanon, and Chile that I have enjoyed at much lower prices than Napa Cabs or Bordeaux/Burgundy. There are only a few places we bring our own wine and those are places that advertise BYOB (nothing like drinking a $100+ dollar bottle of wine with a $20 dinner).

The only time I pay the 2-4x premium on restaurant wines are when we are with other people who may not be as wine adventurous as my wife and I, places I really like the food but don't have deep wine lists, or if we are celebrating and I find a special bottle that I really want to have.

Edit: As referenced, one of my biggest problems with restaurant wine is the combination of young ages and no time to decant. It's always surprising how many nice steakhouses or Italian places sell a ton of 2-4 year old wines that need hours or air or years of age before they drink anything like they are capable of.
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BSD
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In reply to FTAco07 • 10:26a, 2/16/24
AG
FTAco07 said:
Edit: As referenced, one of my biggest problems with restaurant wine is the combination of young ages and no time to decant. It's always surprising how many nice steakhouses or Italian places sell a ton of 2-4 year old wines that need hours or air or years of age before they drink anything like they are capable of.


Im with you on this. It really grinds my gears to pay that markup when the restaurant has done nothing to transform the product (don't mind paying markups for food, which they actually so something with). Yes, I know inventory is expensive and they have to make money. Doesn't mean I have to like it. There's got to be a better way.

And I'll echo the sentiment of others, as well. Regarding steakhouses, I now go for lunch to avoid the temptation! Well, if it's a special occasion we'll splurge but luckily there are a few BYO places we'll go to instead. Pappas has a by the glass reserve list that I'll order off sometimes. It's still marked up but I can nurse a glass over the meal for a limited cost, problem. It's the perfect amount for me, anyways.
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Objective Aggie
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In reply to cecil77 • 10:30a, 2/16/24
AG
cecil77 said:
To expand a bit. Like many of you, my wine selection at home is better than all but a few restaurants. I'll gladly pay a reasonable corkage ("reasonable" depends upon the food prices at the restaurant), and it's surprising just how many restaurants will allow you if you ask. Even some with a mixed beverage permit that aren't supposed to let you will upon occasion.

I just can't (i.e. won't) pay 2.5X of my price for a bottle of wine at a restaurant. And the lower the price at the restaurant, the higher the multiplier.

So I will just enjoy a good beer.

This is exactly my logic on almost every dimension.

Look at this place in contrast: https://scomas.com/bar_winelist/
This should be the standard.
Frank Family cab for $105. That's more than fair.

Think I had The Mascot for $225-250 there or something like that.

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HTownAg98
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11:10a, 2/16/24
It depends. I'll scour the list, and sometimes you can find a good deal on something, or sometimes you can find a wine on the list where the wine buyer really doesn't know what they have. There's usually a couple benchmark wines on a list that I can gauge the markup, and use that as my basis for if it's a wine or cocktail night. If the restaurant is doing a 1/2 off Wine Wednesday or something similar, that's usually when we will go to try something we wouldn't normally buy.
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cecil77
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In reply to HTownAg98 • 11:14a, 2/16/24
AG
Agree. I'll pay 1.5x just not the 2.5 and more that's so common.

And Cypress Grill here in Boerne has (had? we don't go much anymore) 40% on bottles each Wednesday, and the owner didn't update his list very often. There would be quite a few right at HEB prices.

But honestly, most of the time it's not worth the effort, we don't eat out at night that much anyway. Too much good wine at home!
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BSD
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11:25a, 2/16/24
AG
Speaking of BYO, at least California got one thing right…



2014 Morlet La Proportion Duree
2015 SQN eleven confessions Grenache
2021 Maybach Vocaublum (thorevilos vineyard, aka ecotone)

At La Calenda in Yountville. Free corkage on the first bottle.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to EclipseAg • 11:33a, 2/16/24
AG
EclipseAg said:
Objective Aggie said:
What do you guys do at restaurants?

If it's a special occasion, I'll splurge a bit.

If it's just a regular night out, I usually look for an inexpensive Spanish tempranillo or no-name California merlot.


Good point, and others have mentioned it as well. A lot of wines and regions don't see as much of a markup on value from suppliers/retailers in the off premise, and likewise they don't get as much markup in the on premise.

Had a bottle of merlot from dry creek valley last night out at dinner, was reasonably priced and got the job done.

For our 5-year anniversary dinner we "splurged" on a bottle once while going out, but the restaurant had a sick 50% sparkling wine deal for happy hour dining! I don't know if I can call that a true splurge. Our other dinners out that week we did not order a bottle anywhere, but it was a wine trip in SB so we were wined out by night time a bit.

Just a year or so ago I got a great Sonoma coast Pinot from a great producer at a fancy restaurant in Healdsburg. They did good for the consumer and it hardly had a markup. $80 list value. They had a very deep wine list and I kind of knew it when I saw it that's what we were probably going to get!

I think one thing to consider with dining out and wine…if you're on this thread, you care way way more than the average consumer about wine. Joe off the street just wants to order the name they know or bottle they recognize and it's partially a status purchase for them. They don't care that it's a young Barolo that hasn't had time to age or breathe. They may not know or care of the difference.
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htxag09
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11:37a, 2/16/24
AG
This conversation reminded me of something similar.....wine bars. I was really excited about the idea of a wine bar.

A bar specifically designed around wine should have lots of open bottles to have by the glass, right? Especially with technology available like a coravin.

Seems everyone I've been to has your standard 10 bottles that every restaurant in town has. Such a letdown.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to htxag09 • 11:45a, 2/16/24
AG
htxag09 said:
This conversation reminded me of something similar.....wine bars. I was really excited about the idea of a wine bar.

A bar specifically designed around wine should have lots of open bottles to have by the glass, right? Especially with technology available like a coravin.

Seems everyone I've been to has your standard 10 bottles that every restaurant in town has. Such a letdown.


Wine bars are such an oxymoron nowadays. There aren't many true, good wine bars out there. Lot of reasons for this I think. I listen to Vinepair a bit to follow bevalc stuff and they've talked at length about it. I won't get into all of the reasons here but google "vinepair wine bars" or search podcasts and you can listen/read about it.

I forgot in my last post to mention one other thing. An added benefit to ordering off of a wine list is that you are paying a little for the protection from corkage. The restaurant then has to eat that cost of the lost bottle and you just get to move on to the next one.

Most wineries are good about corkage replacements in the DTC space, but I know Cakebread recently turned someone down on a nice bottle replacement, which is very unfortunate. If wineries get stingier with replacing corked bottles for consumers then I could see the restaurant protection being a benefit.

Here's my general preference though, I just wish more wine came in Diam closures nowadays. Sturdy corks that are processed essentially remove all risk of cork taint.
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cecil77
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1:54p, 2/16/24
AG
The Texas distribution model makes curating a good wine list challenging
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EclipseAg
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In reply to htxag09 • 3:03p, 2/16/24
AG
htxag09 said:

A bar specifically designed around wine should have lots of open bottles to have by the glass, right? Especially with technology available like a coravin.

I went to 60 Vines recently for the first time and was fascinated to see that they use a keg system for wines by the glass, which allows them to offer a lot more options.

That was new to me. Didn't realize that was a thing.

But you're right. There's nothing worse than a wine bar with a limited by the glass menu.
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htxag09
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In reply to EclipseAg • 3:04p, 2/16/24
AG
And in related news instagram just sent me like 3 houston wine bar reels
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JCA1
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3:08p, 2/16/24
AG
It's overpriced, but the most interesting wine bar I've been to was, ironically, at Disney World. Offered everything from first growths to Harlan Estate to Penfolds Grange in 1 oz., 3 oz., and 6 oz. pours. Cool concept.
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Orozco05
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In reply to JCA1 • 3:58p, 2/16/24
JCA1 said:
It's overpriced, but the most interesting wine bar I've been to was, ironically, at Disney World. Offered everything from first growths to Harlan Estate to Penfolds Grange in 1 oz., 3 oz., and 6 oz. pours. Cool concept.


Which wine bar was this? Going there next week
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JCA1
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In reply to Orozco05 • 4:27p, 2/16/24
AG
Orozco05 said:
JCA1 said:
It's overpriced, but the most interesting wine bar I've been to was, ironically, at Disney World. Offered everything from first growths to Harlan Estate to Penfolds Grange in 1 oz., 3 oz., and 6 oz. pours. Cool concept.


Which wine bar was this? Going there next week


https://winebargeorge.com/

Technically in Disney Springs.

For $260, you can do the King's Experience, which gets you 1 oz. Each of '08 Chateau Margaux, Penfolds "Grange", '19 Harlan Estate, and '20 Grand Cru Clos de la Roche
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jh0400
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In reply to JCA1 • 6:04p, 2/16/24
AG
JCA1 said:
Orozco05 said:
JCA1 said:
It's overpriced, but the most interesting wine bar I've been to was, ironically, at Disney World. Offered everything from first growths to Harlan Estate to Penfolds Grange in 1 oz., 3 oz., and 6 oz. pours. Cool concept.


Which wine bar was this? Going there next week


https://winebargeorge.com/

Technically in Disney Springs.

For $260, you can do the King's Experience, which gets you 1 oz. Each of '08 Chateau Margaux, Penfolds "Grange", '19 Harlan Estate, and '20 Grand Cru Clos de la Roche


I'll second Wine Bar George. I stop in every time I'm in Orlando.

It's where I found this by the glass a few years ago.



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JCA1
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In reply to jh0400 • 6:39p, 2/16/24
AG
jh0400 said:
JCA1 said:
Orozco05 said:
JCA1 said:
It's overpriced, but the most interesting wine bar I've been to was, ironically, at Disney World. Offered everything from first growths to Harlan Estate to Penfolds Grange in 1 oz., 3 oz., and 6 oz. pours. Cool concept.


Which wine bar was this? Going there next week


https://winebargeorge.com/

Technically in Disney Springs.

For $260, you can do the King's Experience, which gets you 1 oz. Each of '08 Chateau Margaux, Penfolds "Grange", '19 Harlan Estate, and '20 Grand Cru Clos de la Roche


I'll second Wine Bar George. I stop in every time I'm in Orlando.

It's where I found this by the glass a few years ago.





I went with this.
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BSD
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11:14p, 2/16/24
AG
Not a bad day in Napa. Thank goodness for spit buckets!

We started off at lunch at Bouchon with 001 Vintners. This is a wine that is from the Ecotone/Thorevilos vineyard kind of on Howell Mountain, it's on the base and not technically Howell Mountain yet. It used to be Abreu's project (he planted it and had it for 30 years) but now it's under a new lease. Fruit goes to a couple of wineries including Colgin. This is a great wine! Graeme MacDonald makes it and it is more classically styled. Not as extracted and big as other Napa cabs, but a bit softer. It releases this spring with its inaugural vintage. https://www.001vintners.com

Next up was Impensata, and introduction from some friends in Houston. We tried a merlot from the same vineyard as above, a Howell Mountain cab, and a Calistoga cab from the small Engelhard vineyard (cabs with some cab franc and petit Verdot). All were good but we liked the Engelhard the best.

From there we went to dinner with Piper wines and took some wine to share. His '14 was in a great place and he told me the '16 is really hitting on all cylinders right now, so drink em if you've got em. Impensata had given us almost a full bottle of the '18 Engelhard to take and it was very similar to the '14 Piper. We started dinner with a '13 Konsgaard "The Judge" Chardonnay. Now that was a good wine. Early candidate for my wine of the year.

All in all a good day. We'll try some new spots tomorrow and visit a favorite.

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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to BSD • 11:29p, 2/16/24
AG
Konsgaard! I am envious.
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JCA1
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In reply to BSD • 8:39a, 2/17/24
AG
Are you going to be a buyer of 001? Know the release price?

Trying to decide if I need to sign up for yet another mailing list. . .
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BSD
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In reply to JCA1 • 9:03a, 2/17/24
AG
I will be buying, but surprisingly I forgot to ask the price. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow when we meet up with some folks who will know.
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JCA1
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In reply to BSD • 9:37a, 2/17/24
AG
BSD said:
I will be buying, but surprisingly I forgot to ask the price. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow when we meet up with some folks who will know.


Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and signed up. No harm in that right? (famous last words)
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cecil77
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9:52a, 2/17/24
AG
Must be genetic...
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greenband
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1:30p, 2/17/24
AG
Friend of mine asked this, and I know there are some Realm people here:

Trying to decide on my Realm allocation order. They keep getting more proud of their wine. It is good, no doubt, but has it crossed the rubicon on value and worth the price? Less an issue of the actual price and more a question of value. Any Realm collectors with opinion would be most appreciated before I push the purchase button :-)
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htxag09
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In reply to greenband • 1:45p, 2/17/24
AG
I won't speak for everyone here, but for me it's not worth it. Only bottle I generally buy anymore is bard. Even that, not sure if it's really worth it, but it was kind of my og.
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QBCade
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In reply to greenband • 2:09p, 2/17/24
AG
greenband said:
Friend of mine asked this, and I know there are some Realm people here:

Trying to decide on my Realm allocation order. They keep getting more proud of their wine. It is good, no doubt, but has it crossed the rubicon on value and worth the price? Less an issue of the actual price and more a question of value. Any Realm collectors with opinion would be most appreciated before I push the purchase button :-)


I would say that most of Napa has crossed past the value mark on allocations. You can buy back vintages cheaper than current vintage.
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aggiejumper
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2:45p, 2/17/24
AG
Speaking of crossing a line. 2021 Scarecrow is $600 a bottle. That puts an order (3 bottles) at $2100 or so after shipping and taxes.
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WestUAg
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3:11p, 2/17/24
AG
I dropped realm 2 years ago. There is zero value in their wines at $300 per bottle. They are trying to make their investors money and there are much better wines out there for $300
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QBCade
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In reply to aggiejumper • 7:03p, 2/17/24
AG
aggiejumper said:
Speaking of crossing a line. 2021 Scarecrow is $600 a bottle. That puts an order (3 bottles) at $2100 or so after shipping and taxes.


Yeah. You can pickup the 2013 or 2016 for that price.
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QBCade
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7:04p, 2/17/24
AG
Happy Sat!!


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WestUAg
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10:04p, 2/17/24
AG
How was the DV? Decant? Need more time? Tasting notes?


I popped a 13 Roy piper tonight. It was drinking perfectly, tannins very well integrated, lots of sediment.


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WestUAg
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10:04p, 2/17/24
AG
How was the DV? Decant? Need more time? Tasting notes?


I popped a 13 Roy piper tonight. It was drinking perfectly, tannins very well integrated, lots of sediment.


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