Let this sit about 3-4 years too long. So yeasty, well past its prime. added OJ in hopes to make it drinkable, and was the worst thing I've tried since Jeppson's Malört.

Interesting. How long have you had it? How was it stored?

Received in a shipment in 2017, been stored on its side in a wine fridge since receipt. We cancelled our membership with them a couple of years ago and only have 2-3 bottles left. We were real disappointed, Schramsberg has always been one of our go-to favorites.

Was it corked you think? Just surprised at that development. I agree on Schramsberg, they're great.

Chipotlemonger said:

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Was it corked you think? Just surprised at that development. I agree on Schramsberg, they're great.

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Is Schramsberg great? I'm asking in relation to real Champagne. Do you drink both and find the domestic juice holds its own?

I have started drinking more champagne but haven't tried any Schramsberg in years...

can you provide a more specific list of producers/wines here? Might generate more interest from those that collect/drink a lot of Napa on here.

I started to put together a list on my phone notes

If you text me I can share the notes with you

Post it here, I'd assume several more interested....

Merlot


2009 Reynolds family stags leap (1)
2010 Reynolds family stags leap (2)
2011 Reynolds family stags leap (3)
2012 Reynolds family stags leap (2)
2013 Reynolds family stags leap (2)
2014 Reynolds family stays leap (3)
2015 Reynolds family stags leap (1)
2016 Reynolds family stags leap (1)

2009 Reynolds family cab Merlot blend (1)
2010 Reynolds family cab Merlot blend (1)

2011 nickel and nickel suscol ranch (1)
2013 N&N suscol ranch (1)
2011 N&N Harris (1)
2012 N&N Harris (1)
2014 N&N Harris (1)
2014 N&N bear flat oak knoll (1)

Zinfandel and Syrah and desserts wine

2009 Nickel and Nickel Ponzo Zin (1)
2009 N&N Bonfire Zin (1)
2010 Frank Family Zin Reserve (1)

2009 N&N Darien Syrah (1)
2011 N&N Darien (1)
2012 N&N Darien (1)
2013 N&N Darien (1)

2008 Far Niente Dolce late harvest (1)
2010 Far Niente Dolce (1)
2011 Far Niente Dolce (1)
2012 Far Niente Dolce (1)

Far Niente, Nickel &Nickel, Bella Union

2012-2016 Bella Union Cab (1 per year)

2012 N&N Branding Iron Cab. (6 in a wooden crate, 1 separate)
2014 N&N branding iron cab (1)
2015 N&N branding iron cab (1)
2011 N&N CC Ranch (2)
2013 N&N Cc Ranch (1)
2015 N&N CCRanch (1)
2013 N&N Copper Streak (1)
2014 N&N Copper Streak (1)
2012 N&N Dragon Fly (1)
2012 N&N Element 28 (1)
2014 N&n Hayne (1)
2012 N&N John C Sullenger (1)
2013 N&N John C Sullenger (1)
2016 n&n Kenefick Ranch (1)
2015 N&N Quarry (2)
2012 N&N Quicksilver (1)
2012 N&N State Ranch (6 in wooden box, 1 addl)
2014 N&N state Ranch (1)
2015 N&N State Ranch (2)

Various Far Niente (some estate, some cave collections)


2006 FN (1)
2007 FN (1)
2008 FN (2)
2009 FN (2)
2010 FN (2)
2011 FN (3)
2012 FN (2)
2013 FN (2)
2014 FN (3)
2015 FN (1)

Misc Cabs

2010 Barbour St Helena (1)
2016 Chimney Rock Stags leap (1)
2015 Clif Lede (2)

2014 Hess Mt Veeder (1)
2015 Miner Family(1)
2015 Joseph Phelps Estate (8)
2009 Pride Mountain Reserve (1)

2013 Reynolds Family (1 magnum, 1 other)
2009 Reynolds Family (2 magnum)
2015 Reynolds Family (1)
2014 Reynolds Family (1)
2010 Reynolds Family (1 magnum)
2006 Reynolds Family Reserve (1)
2008 -2013 Reynolds Family Reserve (1 per year)
2014 Reynolds Family Quote Bordeaux Blend (6)
2015 Reynolds family quote Bordeaux blend (12)
2015 Titus (1)
2013 ZD 45th anniversary (12)

Dan Gatlin podcast. It's over an hour long...

Dan Gatlin's Dogged Quest for Quality at Inwood Estates Winery

I'm biased of course, but it's a fun listen.

looking at the above lists and various vintages got me wondering

what age does everyone enjoy drinking specific varietals of wines? What is your Napa preference or other cab/bordeaux blends? cali chard? burgundy? etc.


I don't know that I have any iron clad preferences, personally. We drink a lot of chardonnay from SBC and I find them hitting a very nice spot after about 3 years, but had some older that were really interesting. so 19's and 20's right now hitting the first window.

I haven't found much benefit to letting my Sonoma/NorCal pinots get age. I don't have a lot of experience, but haven't ever found growing nuance or complexity with 7 or 8 years... maybe that's not old enough?

cecil77 said:

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Dan Gatlin podcast. It's over an hour long...

Dan Gatlin's Dogged Quest for Quality at Inwood Estates Winery

I'm biased of course, but it's a fun listen.

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yeah I thought it was an interesting interview, enjoyed it

bularry said:

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looking at the above lists and various vintages got me wondering

what age does everyone enjoy drinking specific varietals of wines? What is your Napa preference or other cab/bordeaux blends? cali chard? burgundy? etc.


I don't know that I have any iron clad preferences, personally. We drink a lot of chardonnay from SBC and I find them hitting a very nice spot after about 3 years, but had some older that were really interesting. so 19's and 20's right now hitting the first window.

I haven't found much benefit to letting my Sonoma/NorCal pinots get age. I don't have a lot of experience, but haven't ever found growing nuance or complexity with 7 or 8 years... maybe that's not old enough?

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With the amount of different wines out there from the same area nowadays, I don't think you can hold a one size fits all solution on a lot of wines (e.g. Napa cab).

That being said I do have a couple of iron clad preferences. Wineries like Austin Hope are a no go for me because I can't get over the thought of how early they release their cabs. Granted, they make it in a subpar style that allows it to be released extremely young.

• California Pinots - I can have them as young as 2021 recently or old as 2018 in general and be okay. Certain styles and producers can go longer, but I think the sweet spot in general is 2-5 years.
• Napa (and Sonoma) Cabs - 2.5 year minimum (AKA drink a 2017 in early 2020). I love a little age on them though, especially if they are higher end. Something like 7+ years.
• Bordeaux Blends - The longer the better in general. Average Bordeaux wines are fine at 4+ years, but the best ones really shine at 10+ years.
• Chardonnay - Had a 2016 this past week that was tasty, and I think that is a good max for me (7 years). I think I like Chardonnay best before that point. Never had older Chards but I bet I would like them in the proper setting. So many different styles of Chardonnay though so it definitely varies!

I'll end there for now, I think I can personally keep nerding out about this for a long while.

Cabs - 7-10yrs is usually perfect for my taste. After that can be a good up.

Pinots - young. New to 2-3yrs.

Blends - depends

Yep 7-10 for a good Cab is great.

I've never drink much old Burgundy, or much of any Burgundy for that matter. I'm sure it's good though and there's a reason older ones can fetch a pretty penny.

Zinfandel I have heard can age well, but I've personally never had older Zin.

With modern winemaking (e.g. MOX) all bets are off as to any "standard" aging for wines. As in the example in Dan's podcast, I brought a '06 Pape Clement and a '16 Pape Clement to compare. The '16 was drinking beautifully, the '06 not really ready yet.

So (and this is a reflection of my age, as well) drink 'em when you want to. Waiting for a wine to peak is uncertain, and logically speaking you can't discern a peak until you're past it anyway. It's fun to drink 'em now and then hold on to see how they progress.

I just don't see any room for much in the way of standards or "rules" for aging of various wines anymore.

And a huge unknown is how these modern wines will age. For example that '16 Pape Clement, will it last 30 years? (much less improve) 20? It's just unknown at this point.

20+ years for champagne.

Chipotlemonger said:

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Yep 7-10 for a good Cab is great.

I've never drink much old Burgundy, or much of any Burgundy for that matter. I'm sure it's good though and there's a reason older ones can fetch a pretty penny.

Zinfandel I have heard can age well, but I've personally never had older Zin.

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I've got some Zin from 15-19 from Napa, sonoma, paso, etc plus one older Napa zin from 04. I'm trying to hold all of them and going to do some aged zin tastings in a few years... assuming I don't die before then

think it will be a fun exercise

bularry said:

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But i think everyone has in their head when they expect to drink wines they have stored. For instance I just bought some '19 Monte Bello. It might be great right now, no idea, but I ain't opening one to find out. I'm gonna wait those suckers out.

I opened a '13 Brunello not long ago and it was pretty "okay" on night one. 24 hours later it was a much better drinking experience. Did I open it too young or would it have been the same result in 10 years? No idea, just glad I kept it another night!

wine is pretty fascinating

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Great stuff here, and agreed. Fascinating indeed!

And that's the point. The fun is in the exploration and the journey.

I've got some slightly older Monte Bello and will pull the trigger on one soon, but yeah I hope I live long enough for them.

For Bordeaux there are vast differences in, that started (I think) around 2010. For fun we might open four vintages of Cos d'Estournel to see if we can tell when MOX started. I've got 05, 09, 14 and 17 so that might be an interesting exercise...

And I used to be more careful, but again aging has changed things. Now we'll open any wine on any day. And enjoy it!

cecil77 said:

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For fun we might open four vintages of Cos d'Estournel to see if we can tell when MOX started. I've got 05, 09, 14 and 17 so that might be an interesting exercise...

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Do you have any MOX literature or stats on hand? # of producers, which producers, etc.? Might it also be vintage specific? Depending on the growing season, someone could choose to use it as a tool or not. But us consumers would be none the wiser unless told so.

We mostly buy cabs, and bdx blends from Napa, pinots from Sonoma and central coast, cab/bdx/syrahs/GSMs from Paso and central coast, Zins from Turley, and zin blends from Ridge. The cabs/bdx/syrah/GSM I like 4-7 yrs old best, the zins and the pinots 3-4 yrs old. Our cellar is passive and I store everything between 65-73 degrees, so it's possible one of my 4 year old bottles might be a little further along than the same wine stored in a better-controlled environment.

Re: zins, if well made and not overly doctored up as Cecil describes, can hold up to age and develop as well as any cab or other big red. Turleys are pretty reliable subjects if you want to try out some aged zin. We picked up a few bottles of 1996 zins from Turley last time we went to Paso. We opened one in 2019, and besides the color and hints of dried fruit/leather, it still tasted pretty fresh. I was planning to drink the others in 2021 and 2026 but had them stored while we were renovating our basement, so I am off schedule. I've bought a case of various Turley zins every year since the 2015 release, and we rarely open one. I probably have 45-50 bottles ranging in age from 2-8 years, and plan to occasionally open a few and taste verticals, or sample here and there just to see where they are at at various stages. Every one I've opened so far tastes like it could keep going for a long while.

Chipotlemonger said:

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cecil77 said:

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For fun we might open four vintages of Cos d'Estournel to see if we can tell when MOX started. I've got 05, 09, 14 and 17 so that might be an interesting exercise...

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Do you have any MOX literature or stats on hand? # of producers, which producers, etc.? Might it also be vintage specific? Depending on the growing season, someone could choose to use it as a tool or not. But us consumers would be none the wiser unless told so.

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I don' have any, but I'll ask...

And I think few producers will reveal their "recipes". But yes, vintage specific and grape specific. It's a tool more than a method. And now that it can be fine tuned barrel by barrel, it's a more precise tool than it was a decade or so ago.

A few new acquisitions. Cut the caps on the first two to check the cork

Had that Insignia over Christmas '21. Was in a great place!

Along with good Ag Chris Brundrett and William Chris, The Gatlin Family and Inwoods Estates are Magnum Level Partners for the Texas Wine Auction, to be held Saturday April 29th at the Vista Oaks Event Center in Fredericksburg.

Last year was a great time and the money goes to great causes.

If you make it make sure and say hello!

Texas Wine Auction

Nice. Try some Krug next. My preference between the 2 out of the very limited times I've gotten to try them.