It's been so long for can't even remember!

Speaking of hard to get on a mailing list, Thomas (Pinot in Oregon) doesn't do anything by e-comm, just mail and telephone. I sent him a letter to get in his list.

So about last night...

My wife had a friend over the other day for a happy hour at the house. When two girls get together I usually excuse myself from the room for my own sanity. But as I walked back towards the kitchen at one point to get some water, I heard my wife's friend invite her to a champagne tasting at her club so I lingered around to hear the details. The friend started reading the email the club sent about Salon and Delamotte. Naturally I stepped into the conversation.

She gave us the time and place and we cleared the calendar and got a sitter. The 1996 Salon was the best wine I've ever had...period ('75 Yquem and '07 Maybach are pretty damn close too), so Salon has always had a special place in my heart. I wasn't about to miss this.

We showed up to the club and walked up to see 3 separate tasting tables: 2 on the right with Delamotte and one on the left with 06/07 Salon. The crowd was perfect, only about 20-25 of us, and I looked over to see 8 bottles of Salon.

Here is what all was served:



The somm asked that we start off with Delamotte and move forward, so we obliged. Most of y'all know that I'm very limited in what I can drink (a glass or two a month...ugh) so I took my flute and had a taste of the brut. It was fine but it wasn't what I was after. I then moved to the NV BdB for a taste. Much better!

About that time, I hear a young man (35ish tops) talking next to me with a thick French accent. I turn to introduce myself and it turns out he is the export director for Salon. I had no idea a Salon rep would be there. He was in town for another tasting on a TX road trip (his first time here) and the distributor brought him to this club (the distributor's friend was there selling the wines, thus the order sheet). We talk for about 15-20 minutes about Salon, France, the US, and national parks here (he wants to visit Yosemite). We exchange emails and discussed a possible visit to the house in Mesnil in the future. It was fun to hear him talk about his wines and to tell him my stories with them.

In the meantime, I had moved on to the Delamotte Rose. A bit too sweet for my liking. Then I hit the 2007 BdB. This is a nice wine!!! While the non-vintage was good, this was much more expressive. At $95? I don't know. I have the 2008 coming to me at $60 so I passed on buying there. I'll just buy more 2008!

After that, the gentleman from Salon gave his speech. He went into the history of Delamotte and Salon and how they came to be one house. He talked about Mesnil Sur Oger and the climate/soils. He then described each wine in detail and took questions.

While he was talking, we were handed glasses of the 2007 Salon. It was linear and delicious. Next we tried the 2006 Salon which was more complex with broader flavors. Both were great in their own way.

The Salon rep came by to say goodbye and we talked for another 10 minutes or so with a man who I had just met...mostly about the book Wine and War, and fishing.

The crowd was dying out and my wife looked over and there were still 3 bottles of Salon left! We told the pourer (assistant Somm) to make sure he got his fair share *wink wink* and then we each had seconds of each vintage. Since flutes aren't full pours and I had dumped the previous extra Delamotte wine, I felt comfortable in taking on the endeavor. After seconds, almost everyone who had stayed departed and the head somm said to dig in on the rest of the bottles, so my wife and her friend went back for third and fourth pours. I reluctantly passed, but i have to take care of myself these days! Don't worry (not that you were), because I did order a bottle of each and asked to be a part of the group that gets a rare magnum of the 2008 vintage!

Anytime you can have Salon is a treat, but to taste two vintages in a night is something special. I feel very fortunate to have been a part of the experience. It's certainly up here as one of my top experiences in my wine life.

*Sorry to ramble, I just went all fan-girl on the tasting but hey, that's the way I like to live life!

Austintm said:

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I'm not a big Texas wine fine. That said, if you can get into William Chris (make a reservation) try that. Then go to Hye Meadow WInery, very close by and a fun place. They both are among the wineries that have realized certain varietals do well in the Texas terroir, and other do not.

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Welcome to Texags and welcome to this thread!

As to Texas wines, I've got to disagree a bit. There few grape varities which can't do well in Texas, given the proper clonal selection, viticulture (with its resultant low yield) and vineyard knowledge.

Come see me some Saturday at Inwood Estates for Dan Gatlin's wine, and then I'll get you to Calais Winery to taste Ben Caliais' wine. I've tasted wine from most Texas wineries and these are easily the best, at least in the classic sense of fine wine. Not coincidentally, they are also pretty much the most expensive!

You can taste Tempranillo and Bordeaux blends that are world class. And no, that's not hyperbole. I've taken our wine to Napa, Long Island and Bordeaux - with great reception everywhere. Our newest Bordeaux blends, grown just west of Fredericksburg, are reminiscent of classic left bank Bordeaux blends.

We can discuss the entire concept of "terroir", and why we just do not ascribe to it, along with most of the newest research into the physiology of vinifera grapes. I look forward to meeting you!

cecil77 said:

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Austintm said:

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I'm not a big Texas wine fine. That said, if you can get into William Chris (make a reservation) try that. Then go to Hye Meadow WInery, very close by and a fun place. They both are among the wineries that have realized certain varietals do well in the Texas terroir, and other do not.

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Welcome to Texags and welcome to this thread!

As to Texas wines, I've got to disagree a bit. There few grapes which can't do well in Texas, given the proper clonal selection, viticulture (with its resultant low yield) and vineyard knowledge.

Come see me some Saturday at Inwood Estates for Dan Gatlin's wine, and then I'll get you to Calais Winery to taste Ben Caliais' wine. I've tasted wine from most Texas wineries and these are easily the best, at least in the classic sense of fine wine. Not coincidentally, they are also pretty much the most expensive!

You can taste Tempranillo and Bordeaux blends that are world class. And no, that's not hyperbole. I've taken our wine to Napa, Long Island and Bordeaux - with great reception everywhere. Our newest Bordeaux blends, grown just west of Fredericksburg, are reminiscent of classic left bank Bordeaux blends.

We can discuss the entire concept of "terroir", and why we just do not ascribe to it, along with most of the newest research into the physiology of vinifera grapes. I look forward to meeting you!

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Can't make it Saturday but would love to meet up with you at some point. If you see my earlier post (just above this) it will give you an idea of what we generally prefer. That said, always willing to try..

The point on terroir is you can't (at least from what I've tasted) try to grow Napa (orSonoma) grapes here -- the growing season is too hot and too attenuated. What you can do is grow some good hotter-climate, shorter growing season grapes. Different wines. different tastes and preferences. Not saying there isn't good juice in Texas, just different juice..

Quote:

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Can't make it Saturday but would love to meet up with you at some point. If you see my earlier post (just above this) it will give you an idea of what we generally prefer. That said, always willing to try..

The point on terroir is you can't (at least from what I've tasted) try to grow Napa (orSonoma) grapes here -- the growing season is too hot and too attenuated. What you can do is grow some good hotter-climate, shorter growing season grapes. Different wines. different tastes and preferences. Not saying there isn't good juice in Texas, just different juice..

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I understand that's the traditional thought. As it turns out, it's categorically untrue! Napa 2015 had a much shorter and hotter growing season than did Texas, but STILL made great wine. How? They dropped their yields 40-70%. The (usually) shorter growing season in Texas is mitigated by dropping yields to the point that the development of polyphenols is rapid enough to keep pace with sugar, resulting in physiologically ripe grapes. Here in the Hill Country a max of 1.5 tons/acre works well. West Texas can sustain slightly higher yields. For reference, Napa shoots for 2.5-4 most years.

Look for 2018 to produce great wine in Texas. Yields were down across the board. On his facebook page, Ben Calais was reporting many yields of 1.5 tons/acre and lower. Inwood experienced the same, as we do every year.

It's tough to get used to, since we've all ascribed to the "religion of terroir" for so long. But more and more research, and the resultant wine, are disproving it world wide.

I'm there almost every Saturday and can arrange to be there with a couple days notice any other time. It will be fun!

Hoping for allocations from Macdonald and Scarecrow this year. I did contact Scarecrow recently to request a library wine...and they agreed! So I'm hoping I have arrived to the allocation crowd as I've been buying M. Etain for several year. Not optimistic about the Mac.

I passed on a lot of allocations this year, and many of these do not have waiting lists, but I'm still buying:

Realm
Seven Stones
Harlan
Tor
Vice Versa
He-li-an-thus
Futo
VHR
Checkerboard
4 Winds
Hayfork
Tate
Pott
Zeitgeist
Kapcsandy
Fairchild
Shaffer
Hundred Acre
Dancing Hares/Mockingbird
Pahlmeyer
William & Mary

I dropped:
La Sirena/Barrett & Barrett
Anomaly
Rivers Marie
Marston
Schrader
Maybach
Dalla Valle
Lail
Eisele
Sarocka
Law Estate
Paul Hobbs
Grace Family
Dana
Vine Cliff
Avril Taylor
Nine Suns
Carter
David Arthur
Chappellet
Kongsgaard
Scarlett
Component

There's just a lot of great wine out there and I'm trying to narrow my focus on Napa cabs while still seeking out new juice that might become the next big thing.

Comanche,

Pretty sure I signed up for SQN online but a quick internet search didn't turn up the website. Maybe the waiting list has gotten so long they took the site down? In any event, I only signed up about 2 years ago so I'm guessing I'll never make the list in my lifetime.

HTownAg98 said:

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Those that are on the waiting list for Sine Qua Non should take a look at Sanguis. And those that are on the waiting list for Saxum should look into Linne Calodo. These two would be considered the 1A of their counterparts. And both lists are currently open.

Some other Paso Robles stuff that should be considered include Jacob Toft, Turtle Rock, and Paix Sur Terre. Very small producers that are making some amazing wines, and they may not be able to keep up with demand.

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I grabbed a few bottles from Sanguis. Looking forward to checking them out!

I buy some SQN whites on the secondary from time to time. They are cheaper than the reds and easier to find. And they are delicious.

cecil77 said:

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Look for 2018 to produce great wine in Texas. Yields were down across the board.

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Other than a Tempranillo from Inwood, I haven't had a Texas wine in over 10 years, probably closer to 20 years. Now that I think about it, the Inwood was 12 years ago. If I'm ever out that way, I may give you a ring so you can show me what is good in the Texas market. I'll bring something French for fun.

I look forward to it!

Welp, looks like we aren't drinking Velvet Glove tonight.

Cecil and others (hat in hand), my wife wants to visit Fredericksburg and Include some tasting of local wineries with another couple or two. Ideal venues are "fun" with interesting wines of mixed varietals with more intimate tastings. No tour group style vineyards. What would y'all recommend, and best time to go in next few months? Really looking for any good ideas in terms of where to stay, dine and otherwise enjoy ourselves.

Let Cecil (and others with Texas wine knowledge) suggest wineries.
For dining Cabernet Grill and Navajo Grill for nicer dining. August E's used to be good, but haven't been in a while.
Hotels: regardless of what anyone tells you, there are no hotels in F'burg nicer than a Hampton or HE Express. Maybe a B & B or stay at Horseshoe Bay (little under an hour). They recently renovated it.

We booked a really cool place on Lincoln Street from Absolute Charm Properties or something like that. And a really cool wine bar right across the street.

The steakhouse on the west end of Main Street, Crossroads, was really good.

Torre di Pietro winery is a cute place with a fun vibe, but the wine is only OK. We really like Pedernales and Messina Hof. Haven't been to Cecil's place yet though. There are a couple of wine shops on Main Street that were quaint and had really good wines.

You should look into one of the private tasting rooms at William Chris. They advertise them as members only but may be flexible if you give them a call far enough in advance. We've also tasted with Cecil at Inwood, and it was a good experience.

For food, I have never had a meal in F'burg that I was really excited about. Same with lodging. After a few stays there we've started making day trips from Austin or stopping in a few places on our way to visit friends in the Hill Country.

William Chris, Calais, and Inwood are going to the top three places to visit, and you should get appointments to make life easier on yourself.

We are going on a couple of weeks, and will go to Cabernet Grill one night. I've heard good things about it. I've been to August E's, and it was good. Nothing memorable, but good food. Bryan's on 290 in Johnson City is really good is you're going to be spending more time in the Hye area.

All this is personal opinion, of course...

Best wine quality:
Inwood Estates and Calais Winery are head shoulders above the rest, but cost more as well. Ben Calais requires reservations, we don't. If they're full, let me know and I can get you in. I'm in the reserve room (on the left) Saturdays. Bistro side is open 7 days. If you're not coming on a Saturday, please let me know and I'd love to come and and do your tasting!

Note: For Inwood I'd suggest our "Super Flight". It costs a bit more ($45 ea) but is a private, seated tasting either by Dan Gatlin or me. It features our very best wines and is tasted against both Termanthia and Vega Valbuena. Usually have some of our newest Bordeaux blends thrown in for fun. Does have to be reserved ahead of time though.

Can be good wine:
William Chris - Chris is a good Ag and they have 100% Texas grapes. More $30 type wine, but just fine for what it is.
Hilmy - Eric has gone up and down but is back up now. Fun venue, pretty good wine. Some CA wine, but mostly Texas and he lets you know which is which.

Fun to try and OK wine:
Pontontoc - downtown on main street past Hondo's. Open until 8pm Saturday. Mason County grapes. 2nd oldest home in Fredericksburg.

Texas wine, but OK wine at best:
4.0
Pedernales - nice venue, IMO wine quality has fallen off a bit.
Messina Hof (much of their wine is up to 25% California grapes)

Avoid:
Becker and Grape Creek - More large wine crowd atmosphere, lots of CA wine
Fat Ass - Sweet, fruit wines. "Get your drunk on" young crowd.

In Comfort:
Bending Branch - high quality wine, but much is from CA. Bob Young is good people.
Singing Water - Not all Texas, but decent wine, fun location/venue. Really nice folks, and good friends.

If you've not had a hamburger at Alamo Springs, it's well worth it!

Quote:

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We are going on a couple of weeks, and will go to Cabernet Grill one night.

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Cabernet Grill offers all Inwood wines, and at prices that are very fair for a restaurant. < 150%

Cecil, would you be willing to do a Super Flight at Inwood on Friday, October 12? I emailed About doing one, but they said they couldn't because Dan would be busy.

Absolutely!

PM me particulars and I'll set it up.

Thanks!!!

Will do. Just checking with the wife to confirm. Would later in the afternoon be better for you? Also, I can't pm, and I thought I had your email, but I can't find it.

cecil77 said:

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Texas wine, but OK wine at best:
4.0
Pedernales - nice venue, IMO wine quality has fallen off a bit.

Possibly because they use more High Plains wine which you don't particularly like?

Messina Hof (much of their wine is up to 25% California grapes)

Avoid:
Becker and Grape Creek - More large wine crowd atmosphere, lots of CA wine

Becker also uses HP wines, so same question?

Fat Ass - Sweet, fruit wines. "Get your drunk on" young crowd.

In Comfort:
Bending Branch - high quality wine, but much is from CA. Bob Young is good people.
Singing Water - Not all Texas, but decent wine, fun location/venue. Really nice folks, and good friends.

If you've not had a hamburger at Alamo Springs, it's well worth it!

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And to add to that, what is it about the HP wines that you (and other experts here) don't like? Full disclosure, I'm friends with some HP growers/winery owners. And I'm not as experienced as y'all, but I have had some CA and French and Italian wines, and I don't really notice THAT much difference. Of course, I'm not buying the $400/bottle stuff either.

Not criticizing, just curious and want to expand my knowledge.

HTownAg98 said:

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Will do. Just checking with the wife to confirm. Would later in the afternoon be better for you? Also, I can't pm, and I thought I had your email, but I can't find it.

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email is in my profile.

Anytime is fine. Open 11-5

All Inwood red wines currently for sale are also High Plains grapes.

The big issue is yield. Farming grapes in the high plains pretty much means you need to grow 3 tons per acre or fewer. Inwood and Calais are routinely below even that. However, it takes a commitment to quality and willingness to pay for it. Also staying on top of your growing partners to ensure that quality.

Until recently most of the Terry County growers (Terry County is Brownfield, Yoakum County is Plains) have been growing to 8, 10 or even higher ton/acre yields. The resultant wine is decent $10-$15 grocery store wine, but usually has a $25+ price tag.

To my palette, the best description is that they taste "diluted". Others uses "thin". There's some flavor there, just not much in the way of body or richness. Describing tastes in my brain via words to communicate to your brain is problematic, though.

See HTown's comment below for more...

How far in advance would we need to schedule a Super Flight tasting? As of now we plan on coming over to F'burg for a few hours ahead of a Texas Monthly BBQ dinner on 11/3.

jh0400 said:

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Texas Monthly BBQ dinner on 11/3.

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Mmmmmmmmm!!!!!!

A lot of it has to do with how the grapes are grown. Wineries like Inwood, Calais, and to some extent, William Chris, are requiring that a lot of fruit be dropped to get the yields down to 1-1.5 tons per acre. When you crop for that low of a yield, you will get more of the phenolic development that makes wines more robust and structured, because the vine is putting all of its nutrients and resources into only a few clusters. With more fruit on the vine, those resources get spread among more grapes, and you get thinner wines that can still be good, but they won't be as good as they could be.

The problem is demand. Most growers aren't willing to do this because they are getting paid by the ton of fruit per acre. Right now, there's little incentive to crop that low because everyone with a couple of million dollars to blow is putting in a winery right now. Until there are more people willing to plant more grapes and grow for low yields, or people willing to light their money on fire building a winery, we will continue to have this problem.

jh0400 said:

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How far in advance would we need to schedule a Super Flight tasting? As of now we plan on coming over to F'burg for a few hours ahead of a Texas Monthly BBQ dinner on 11/3.

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A day or so. More is always better, of course. If there's an issue, go through me. Email is in my profile.

I will add that that excellent explanation that Narra vineyards in Terry County is cropping low and the results show it. Yields are way down across the board in 2018 (due to weather factors) so there may be some really good Texas wine from more producers. Hopefully (although I'm not expecting it) some producers will make the connection and alter their growing contracts.

cecil77 said:

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...

To my palette, the best description is that they taste "diluted". Others uses "thin". There's some flavor there, just not much in the way of body or richness. Describing tastes in my brain via words to communicate to your brain is problematic, though.

See HTown's comment below for more...

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This is the number one thing I struggle with and want to figure out how to do. I know what I like and all that, but being able to describe that v. what I'm tasting in a particular glass is damn near impossible for me.

As is remembering what specifically I liked about a wine at a later time so I can compare it with something else. And at a wine dinner, or just dinner with wine, doing tasting notes is not really a convenient thing. Even most tastings I've done don't have a way to do tasting notes easily.

I think "thin" is as good a descriptor as I've heard to explain this. I'll say Welches or "juice box" sometimes, just trying to explain lack of body. But thin is much better because they'll take that to mean I think it's too sweet.

This and HTown's explanation on yield/acre makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that.

cecil77 said:

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I will add that that excellent explanation that Narra vineyards in Terry County is cropping low and the results show it. Yields are way down across the board in 2018 (due to weather factors) so there may be some really good Texas wine from more producers. Hopefully (although I'm not expecting it) some producers will make the connection and alter their growing contracts.

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Speaking of that, and I don't know how familiar you are with wineries up here, but the Trilogy guys in Levelland just split and one of them, Steve Newsome, has bought Caprock Winery in Lubbock. The other two are doing their own things separately now.

HTownAg98 said:

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Cecil, would you be willing to do a Super Flight at Inwood on Friday, October 12? I emailed About doing one, but they said they couldn't because Dan would be busy.

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I can confirm a Super Flight. for October 12. Just tell me a time and how many and I'll be there!

Cecil

Looks like Myriad shipped my wine on 9-22 instead of 10-22, and it sat all day in a hot UPS truck in 80+ degree heat. I did not know it was coming so no one was here to sign, now it will sit all night in a hot warehouse and another full day in the truck tomorrow. I'm not a happy man!