down to our last few bottles of




some day well start our real cellar

I think the proper question for our house is "what isn't in your wine cellar?"...we have way too much right now!

What do you like?

I'm mainly a Cali wine guy. According to cellartracker, 75% of my cellar is cab sauv. I also like zins and petite sirah, but I tend to drink those young. Most of what I buy and cellar is from small producers, although I do buy from the larger wineries if I get a deal. Rivers Marie, Myriad, Lancaster, and Realm are a few of my favorites. Judging by your list, Cecil, you might like those too. I'll try just about any cab off Spring Mountain.

What do you think of Silver Oak?

It's good. But in that price range (esp the Napa Silver Oak) there's an awful lot of good wine.

We went to a Bourassa wine dinner last week and found them very good. Some may think them over oaked, but I like big Napa wines.

Bourassa Vineyards

BSD, thanks! I'll take a look. Do you buy from the winery? Do you worry about heat damage?

I haven't had Silver Oak in a few years. It was getting expensive in relative value terms (as well as a bit oaky) and that was for the Alexander Valley. I've never bought the Napa but drank a few of the older vintages which were good. It's funny because even though I don't drink it, I still base my restaurant markup gauge on the Alexander Valley.

Cecil, I'd say I buy 90% of my juice from the winery. They know better than shipping to Texas unless the conditions are right. In fact, I have over 70 bottles pending delivery right now and the Fall offerings haven't even come out yet!

Yeah, we took our first trip to Napa in July and nobody would ship to Texas until October. This year, that may not be safe!

Do you join their wine clubs? Which do you like?

Durigutti Argentinan Malbec is our favorite.

Yeah, I'm expecting November shipments at the earliest. As far as wine clubs with automatic shipments, I only belong to three: Alpha Omega, Lancaster and Keating. I feel their lineup is so solid that I'd take any wine they send my way. The rest of the wineries usually have a release once or twice a year and I pick the wines I want. A lot of those wineries only make one wine so it makes the decision making process easy...how many do I want. I also tend to buy wines made by a particular winemaker with Mike Smith, Thomas Brown, and Aaron Pott being three I really respect. They produce wine for a few different labels, some they own, some they don't. I love going to Cal and meeting with these guys, you learn so much...and get a bit tipsy.

Edit: can't forget Celia Welch and Heidi Barrett too!


[This message has been edited by Bsd (edited 9/29/2011 7:42p).]

Wow, I want to lean on you some more as I get more and more into this. We've always drank wine and but am now really getting into it. My thought is if I buy 2-4 bottles of really good wine per month to hold, in 4-5 years we can drink 2-4 really good bottles per month.

I've just gotten into Sauternes and have got some to drink and some to hold. The Far Niente Dolce I want to crack open sometime not to long away - probably the holidays.

Cypress Grill restaurant here in Boerne specializes in Napa wines. Paul Thompson is the owner and he's out there a couple times per year. Each Wednesday you can get any wine for 40% off, so it's a great way to treat yourself. For instance Dolce is just $60 on Wednesday.

I'm gonna go lookup those wineries you mentioned now!


Edit:

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Heidi Barrett

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Oh geez. If you're into Screaming Eagle you are way, way out of my league!


[This message has been edited by cecil77 (edited 9/29/2011 7:46p).]

Don't worry, she hasn't made Screaming Eagle for years! Look for Lamborn and Fantesca. That being said, I'll source some Eagle someday.

Funny you mentioned Sauternes. I'm looking for an older vintage Climens or Yquem. I'm not into the sweeter whites but every now and then it hits the spot.

Be careful how you "plan" your future wine consumption. It can get out of hand really quickly and before you know it, you have way more wine than you need and nowhere to put it!

I wish we had more half off wine nights here in Houston. But honestly, I have good wine at home that's already paid for so we cook a lot. And since we don't have to drive, the second and third bottles can be opened without hesitation.

Yquem is out of my range right now. Although I'd gladly taste some of yours! I had my first Sauternes a couple of months ago and it was just ethereal - unlike anything I'd ever tasted.

I'm in the process of changing my office into a cellar. It will be awhile before I can move out of it (I office at home) into another room, so the whole room won't be chilled for a few years, but I've got a couple of wine fridges now. I'd like to get to the 500-1,000 bottle range someday. You got to have a hobby, and this is actually cheaper than golf or fishing!

Boerne Wine Company has the machines that dispense a taste, half glass or glass of wine. You charge a card w/ money (then it's not really money anymore, right?) and can sample a bunch of very good wine. They supply cheese/munchies and it's a very nice atmosphere. Their bottle prices are way to high to take home, but for on site consumption are less than restaurants. This is the kind of place that has Yguem and Petrus and that level of wine, all the way down to cheap stuff. You'd enjoy an evening there if you're ever in town.

All Texas Wines:

Becker Canada Cab Reserve
Becker Claret
Perissos Malbec
Pedernales Merlot

Max, have you tried Chisholm Trail?

We've been to all of the Hill Country wineries.

Our favorites are Sing Water and Bending Branch, both in Comfort. Bending Branch is throwing a ton of money at making good wine. Up to now they've used California grapes (Paso Robles) but pressed their first grapes of their own August. They are specializing in Tannat, which should do well in the Hill Country. Other reds as well.

Chisholm Trail was so so. Probably on the bottom half of Hill Country wineries. Becker is OK, but can be spotty they try to make too many wines. Fall Creek is consistently good and is price more in line with how Texas wines should be priced.

Avoid Solero Estates (Dripping Springs) at all costs. Snooty and poor wine. We always buy a couple of pity bottles and most places credit your tasting fee if you buy some wine. They don't and said "well, we don't have to we sell the most expensive wine in Texas" -just a real jerk.

Lately a lot of Enkidu petite syrah
http://www.enkiduwines.com/
Great stuff

I haven't tried Chisholm Trail. I'm no wine connoisseur- I try a bunch of wines until I find one I like. I don't keep up with the ones that are *supposed* to be good. Just like a great steak, everyone has their tastes.

Silver Oak is good, but I will only buy it at Specs when they have it around $52.

For the most part I'm sitting on Cabs or blends, several of each of these:
Silver Oak 2006 Alexander Valley Cab
Jordan 2006 Cab
Stag's Leap Artemis
Stag's Leap
Faust Cab
Hess Collection 19 Block Cuvee

Probably another 30 random/cheaper cabs/blends/pinots for everyday consumption.

Faust is a good value. Check out Honig, it would fit well with your selections.

I have visited all the Hill Country wineries, but prefer to make my own

OP... your texas collection isn't complete without some inwood estates. there isn't another texas wine that even comes close. you should check out the tasting room at the vineyard at florence. the owner of inwood makes their wine and lives there. you can taste some nice american/french hybrids as well.

seeing that you like cab, you should definitely throw some margaux and paullac in there. personally, i'm particularly fond of merlot and love pomerol, which are generally at least 90% or so, the rest is usually cab franc.

also, you might want to try some red burgundy. you can get some some good cotes de nuits, like "morey saint denis" and "gevrey chambertin" for not too much(relatively).

Need to definitely learn more about French wines. Any specific from those appellations you reccomend?

I really like Rhone wines as well, just have'nt bought much lately.

Although we live for 12 years in Carrollton we don't get back much now, so I don't know when I'd get an opportunity to get to Inwood Estates. Do they distribute anywhere? Quite frankly while there are many drinkable Texas wines, there are only a few good ones and really no really good ones I've found yet. (All of this is opinion, of course. ) Singing Water's Syrah blend "Freedom" is a good everyday wine for us. Most of the Hill Country wineries just charge too stinkin' much when compared to Napa and other good CA wine.

MROD92, are you willing to share?!

INWOOD!! such good stuff!

But I agree with you on their being very few even decent Texas wine.....

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Either you love bacon, or your wrong.

[This message has been edited by bonfirewillburn (edited 9/30/2011 8:06a).]

I love French wines, but will admit I know little about them other than first and second growths. And this may sound hypocritical coming from a guy who buys napa cabs, but the French wines are expensive! The Leoville Barton that I used to buy for $50 is now $150 plus. The French got very proud of their juice...and found a Chinese marketplace that doesn't mind throwing down some coin. The rise in the Euro didn't help me either. Several Napa wineries did the same price increases and bounced me off their lists. I signed up for Screaming Eagle at $150...now at $750. Harlan was $100, now $500. I'd be good for a few bottles each year at those old prices but damn, $500 is just a little high for me.

As far as Texas wines, I think I've given them a fair shot and they just aren't my style. I did think the Inwood tempranillo was the better wine of the bunch. My issue with Texas wines is that they try to grow grapes in Texas which just don't grow well in this climate. Tempranillo has a better shot at surviving here but the other varietals just don't work. When the Texas wineries import juice from other states, they just arent my style. Everyone has their own tastes, and I am not trying to knock on anyone's style, but for me, Texas wines just don't work. I'm a Napa kinda guy.

Always, I am putting some in the bottle this weekend. However I dont think mine is as sophisticated as what you desire.

I've got a lot of J and a couple bottles of Siduri Pinot hanging around. Since the economy took a dump and my disposable income with it, I taken very few shipments from my mailing lists. I had amassed a 5-year vertical of the J Pinot Noir Nichole's Vineyard, and we cracked open the 04 and 05 awhile back. Both were excellent, though they needed to be drunk now. I've got some Justin Isosceles that I need to drink soon. I need to get some Ridge Geyserville to lay down, that stuff is going to be really, really good in 2-3 years.

To those asking about Silver Oak, yes, it's good, but there is better stuff for the price. I think they're living more on reputation like Opus One and other cabs, as opposed to what is actually in the bottle.

If you want to find a good value cab similar to Silver Oak, find some Pelligrini Cloverdale Ranch cab. If you think it's tastes a lot like older vintages of Silver Oak, you would be correct, because it used to go into the blend for the Alexander Valley cab. The best part is that it can be found for around $20-$25. However, I'm not going to tell you where I get it because I don't want them running out. Too many people already know about how good this wine is.

[This message has been edited by HTownAg98 (edited 9/30/2011 9:50a).]

How do you decide how long to hold on to a particular bottle? Experts? Having enough to try a bottle every few years? As I accrue more good wine, figuring out when to drink it is going to be part of the fun?

I just look it up on cellartracker and read the notes. I don't have enough to open and sample every so often, and people on cellartracker do. If a particular wine is drinking well now, it gets opened.

I also use cellartracker for ideas on how long how to age. I also make a note when I first taste a wine as to how long I should age it. My general rule if thumb is to drink zins and pinots young, 3-5 years. I age my cabs 5-10 years, sometimes a bit shorter if I get drunk and say screw it. It also depends on the vintage. 2007 Napa cabs are ready to go right now while the 2006 vintage still has some time to smooth out. These are just general rules for me, they don't apply to every wine though.

cecil... well, there's a tasting room in dallas in the design district at the inwood cellar there. it's open saturday and sunday from noon til around 5.

as far as french wine goes, it's a bit more complicated but also more simple than picking american wines. you have to know something about the region, which grapes they use, and depending upon the location in that region what percentage of each they grow. look at a map of bordeaux, anything near the mouth of the gironde is going to be mostly cab, the farther into the heart of bordeaux you go the more merlot will be planted.

in burdugdy it's much easier, but many of the large houses there are "negociants," which means they buy grapes from growers or juice at auction from the "domaines" who produce their own grapes and make their own wine. so when you see louis jadot, faiveley, or any burgundy that does not have "domaine such and such," it's a negociant wine. but that doesn't mean they aren't as good as the others.

a few good domaines are leroy, bouchard pere % fils(father and son), lefaive, and rousseau.

quote:

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How do you decide how long to hold on to a particular bottle? Experts? Having enough to try a bottle every few years? As I accrue more good wine, figuring out when to drink it is going to be part of the fun?

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depends on where it's from. europe, oregon, south american and texas wines will generally last double what a california and to a lesser extent australian wine will last. this is generally speaking of course. our soils are more mineral rich than cali or aus, so the grapes produce more acidity and tannin, both of which are preservatives.

so if you have an average red bordeaux, i'd give it 10-15 for optimum taste, 15-20 or longer for a grand cru. pretty much the same rule applies for red burgundy.

in cali the best can last for 15 or more, but that's extremely rare. i'd say 7-12, possibly longer on a really good cali, and 3-7 for an average to good one.

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My issue with Texas wines is that they try to grow grapes in Texas which just don't grow well in this climate.

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there are places in texas which have terroir every bit as good as the best in france, you just have to know where to look.

senorchipotle, that seems to be an overgeneralized statement? Texas and CA both have a huge range of soil types. Also, from talking to several Hill Country wine makers none have ever mentioned such large hold times for their cabs. Most say 3-5 years. Meanwhile, many fine Napa cabs (at least according to Robert Parker) will last 15-30 years?

I'd be curious to the sources of your info. I'd be interested in reading them...