Apache pilot suspension lift

3,864 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by WBBQ74
12th Man
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My spin on this event has absolutely nothing to do with my sentiments about Secretary Hegseth, whose performative, Ron-Popiel demeanor I find pretty damned off-putting.

I just happen to agree with him about this & the Kid Rock interventions, because both the process and the [predetermined] verdicts were go8ng to be -in my view- unnecessary & unnecessarily harsh. Having been appointed as a board I member of one, I am intimately familiar with FNAEB's and how they operate. Ergo, I DO NOT think of the process as neutral, medicinal, nurturing or fair-minded. Being brought before the long green felt tablecloth with no ashtrays & exonerated is like being tried for sexual assault & acquitted: your Tinder prospects just decreased by 95%.

TexasAggie73
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I never served in the military, but was a active duty Brat for 15 years. My dad retired from the AF in 1965 as a E8.

Does the SoD jumping in affect the chain of command for political reasons? Should he had let the chain of command do its job before he took action? How will this affect those with direct responsibility for supervising those under their supervision? We see all the time officers relieved of their command for the reason of lost of confidence. What will this do for officer morale and confidence knowing that the decisions made could be overturned. The military for very good reasons has a chain of command and written rules to follow, has this been undermined for strictly political purposes?
12th Man
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As a commander -and simply as a military officer- my decision-making and decisions are ALWAYS subject to the scrutiny of my chain.
TexasAggie73
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12th Man said:

As a commander -and simply as a military officer- my decision-making and decisions are ALWAYS subject to the scrutiny of my chain.


True, but shouldn't you make the decisions first. It seems that in a lot of these recent situations a decision by the immediate commanders had not been made, but that that the situation was under review as is the proper procedure.
12th Man
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No. It appears that the foregone conclusion was that these guys were going to get the full hammer, and SecWar said, "NM" before the wheels got rolling. That's how I see it, at least.
Fdsa
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12th Man said:

As a commander -and simply as a military officer- my decision-making and decisions are ALWAYS subject to the scrutiny of my chain.

True...but did Pete and Co. even take the time to discuss with the chain of command? I don't think he did - heck, the weekend wasn't even over for each event. The PIO probably had not even been appointed. He heard "investigation" and he snapped because it looks cool on Twitter. I do agree punishment can go too far and we have gotten away from this: Conversely, he should not be blind to a single fault in any subordinate, though at the same time, he should be quick and unfailing to distinguish error from malice, thoughtlessness from incompetency, and well meant shortcomings from heedless or stupid blunder.

But to just jump in a 'fix it' is the wrong way in my opinion. At least have a discussion...or maybe he should call every flag back to discuss his philosophy on the UCMJ. Would probably be better than the last speech.
12th Man
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Correct: we know what SecWar did, but neither of us knows what led up to it. You say he did it to seem cool. I say he did it to prevent the doctrinare kangaroo court we've all seen.

Oh well: Po-ta-to/po-tah-to
OldArmyCT
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I don't think the crime warranted anything other than the military equivalent of a slap on the wrist (i.e. take a prog ride with the SIP) and Pete intervened because Pete could. It's what he does. IMO Pete is a loose cannon who tries to project himself as a warrior's warrior without the street cred to back himself up.
WBBQ74
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Fall of '76 I was still a 2LT at Fort Hood but had season tickets. One of the afternoon games at Kyle some Cobra crew decided to to a 'fly by'. This was long before what happens at games currently. These boys came in from the south and were about at the top of the lights level back when Kyle was only 2 decks. Plenty of crowd reaction, oohhs, ahhs. Only problem was that the March In reviewing officer was the BG commanding the 6th ACCB at Fort Hood. This unit used to be the 3rd Bde of the 1CD (Tricap) and was all attack and general lift units (The usual 58's, Hueys, and Cobras of the era). I was in the 1-9 CAV at the time and was around lots of the aviators in D Trp. Word got back quickly next week that the crew had to RBI up the chain until that BG got some booty on them. Tail numbers thing. Different world back then. Vietnam guys still doing crazy sh-t did not stick out that much. Some weekend SDO duty kinda punishments. Wink.
Texas Aggie Bandsman, Class of 1974
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