I'll try and be as brief as possible with this post.

Graduated last semester from A&M with a Maritime Administration degree. I've been applying for commissions for roughly 1.5 - 2 years now (3 denials from CG and 1 pending from Navy). If I get denied by this board, I've heavily considered enlisting. What I'm looking to get out of the military? Service, fulfillment, experience (technical skills I can transition out with) and experiences. As for what I'm considering enlisting in (Rate/MOS) intel, or cyber (branch) AF/Navy. I understand the differences between officer and enlisted (responsibility, liberties, advancement, pay, QoL, etc.), but at this point I really want to do something instead of sitting around and waiting for the POTENTIAL at going to OCS. I want to hear anyone and everyone's perspective, especially those who have been in a similar position.

TL;DR: Been trying to commission for 1.5 years (4 times now), want to go and do something with my life instead of waiting, I want to hear everyone's insight/experiences.

Thanks and Gig 'Em!

Thank you, sir. It seems officers get pigeon-holed pretty hard and I've heard of so many cooler things that enlisted get to do. I appreciate the insight and happy veterans day!

That's a fair point, most people don't like to think the path they took was the wrong one; that being said, I have talked to many of my friends on the E and O sides who say that they regretted their choice and wished they had went the other.

The point you made about culture is spot on. From what I've heard, CG and AF treat their E side a lot better than the MC or Army (just what I've heard from asking around). But, a question for you. Do you think the Rate/MOS of an enlisted heavily influences how they're treated (i.e. Intel vs. Yeoman)? Or, do you think that in the grand scheme of things, their job doesn't really impact much?

Thanks for your response!

Four months before I graduated from high school in June 2006, I enlisted in the Army because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I served as a military intelligence analyst from 2006 to 2011 and deployed twice to Iraq; December 2007 to February 2009 and June 2010 to May 2011. I also went to Fort Irwin, California for a National Training Center (NTC) rotation four months before my second deployment. I was promoted to sergeant on December 1, 2010 in Iraq and went on terminal leave in August 2011.

Fly Army 97 said:

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Clary offers more contribution to this forum and most, so I say this with nothing but respect for him. Almost everyone you talk to will say their chosen path was great...some officers will mention they might have enlisted first and then commissioned. That said, I disagree with this point below.

"If you love being around Soldiers, you want to be enlisted, as we never leave the line per say, but officers disappear for years on end after certain jobs."

Really, it should read "If you like being around the "young" Soldiers who make up the preponderance of the force, go enlisted." Officers do not 'disappear for years', but they certainly (and to his point), are taken off the line to learn how to better lead a staff and command at a higher echelon. I never stopped training with Soldiers, training a staff, or organization/command in 20 years in the Army (minus schools). After year 21, things changed, but that's another story...

The services all handle their jobs, promotion, and experience just slightly different than the next. Marine Corps and Army are not that different if you look at it objectively, but the number of people you lead as an Air Force/Navy officer vs USMC/Army is very different. The scope of the mission is different too.

When it comes down to making your decision, make sure you know enough about the organizational culture you are about to enter too.

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Fly, thank you for the comments. Also, I want to say that the comment about officers disappearing was not meant to be disparaging, so apologies if taken that way. Yes, officers are at schools teaching them upper leadership and other things, but they are gone from the Soldiers for years at a time.

While it does not apply to all officers, those in the Armor and Infantry world are really in leadership positions for about 18 months as a PL, hopefully 18-24 months in company/troop/battery command, 24 months BN if lucky enough to get one, and 24 months in BDE command if lucky enough to get one. Again, this is the Armor and Infantry world and does not apply to all since come CPTs will get a second command in an HHC or the like. So, in a 20 year career, they are in a real leadership position for 4 years at most unless they get lucky enough to get selected for a BN or BDE command (or equivalent).

Yes officers are around those in the staff section or whatever, but those are not leadership positions unless you are the staff primary, and really even then that is not considered a leadership position, and rarely do the staff officers go to the motorpool, ranges, etc....with the junior enlisted like the NCOs do. I know you are aviation, so your experiences are likely to be much different than the combat arms branches.

I am not trying to start an officer/enlisted argument, so please don't take it that way, but NCOs are with their Soldiers day in day out for mostly their entire career. I am just glad we do not have a time like officers do when in the rank of Major, you guys get run ragged in the S3 or XO positions. I CERTAINLY do not envy yall in those positions.

Lots of future cyber opportunities within USSF. CTIO is working through details of CSOs vision of being the first digital force

Brings up another great point, Federal service. Had I known 20 years earlier. Federal benefits and retirement oftentimes without alot of the BS (although it's still there).

OP may want to consider transition into fed service, or fed service and a reserve component. Plenty of maritime opportunities in the fed govt, including positions that will likely enhance your chances of commissioning.

clarythedrill said:

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Fly, thank you for the comments. Also, I want to say that the comment about officers disappearing was not meant to be disparaging, so apologies if taken that way. Yes, officers are at schools teaching them upper leadership and other things, but they are gone from the Soldiers for years at a time.

While it does not apply to all officers, those in the Armor and Infantry world are really in leadership positions for about 18 months as a PL, hopefully 18-24 months in company/troop/battery command, 24 months BN if lucky enough to get one, and 24 months in BDE command if lucky enough to get one. Again, this is the Armor and Infantry world and does not apply to all since come CPTs will get a second command in an HHC or the like. So, in a 20 year career, they are in a real leadership position for 4 years at most unless they get lucky enough to get selected for a BN or BDE command (or equivalent).

Yes officers are around those in the staff section or whatever, but those are not leadership positions unless you are the staff primary, and really even then that is not considered a leadership position, and rarely do the staff officers go to the motorpool, ranges, etc....with the junior enlisted like the NCOs do. I know you are aviation, so your experiences are likely to be much different than the combat arms branches.

I am not trying to start an officer/enlisted argument, so please don't take it that way, but NCOs are with their Soldiers day in day out for mostly their entire career. I am just glad we do not have a time like officers do when in the rank of Major, you guys get run ragged in the S3 or XO positions. I CERTAINLY do not envy yall in those positions.

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Fair points...and I don't take the comments disparaging. I guess I disagree on the bottom line or premise that officers are in 'real' leadership positions only four years. I certainly led, the staff as an XO, and my S3s certainly lead the operation and sweat that goes into it. There is no doubt more direct leadership interaction for NCOs once they get there. I'd argue outside the IN/AR MOSs, that direct leadership opportunity is more on par with other branches, to include the O ranks.

I'm also not trying to start an O/E argument, but the compare and contrasting is difficult because the two career paths serve two purposes. The variety of things you can do as an O is huge, but it's for a purpose. Anyone, making such a decision should take that into consideration. Either path takes commitment to last. But I'm not certain the OP knows what he wants out of this experience.

Sean what is your GPA?

GPA is a 3.71, if you'd like any other info, I am happy to oblige!

SeanLucas2020 said:

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GPA is a 3.71, if you'd like any other info, I am happy to oblige!

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I apologize about the belated response.

That is a very competitive GPA and I applaud your accomplishment. I will give you 5 courses of actions:

1. Talk to the various branches of service to see if you qualify for OCS.
2. Look into going Active Guard Reserve (AGR).
3. Remain a civilian.
4. Apply to become a federal civilian employee.
5. Enlist and apply for OCS. You know the risk of not being picked up for OCS. I can't vouch for the accuracy, but I heard that the Army approves 60% of the OCS packets. I think the feather in your cap is your very robust GPA. If you enlist in the army it would behoove of you to kick ass on the Physical Training tests and portray yourself as a model and mature soldier. Essentially give them every reason to send you to OCS.

Here is some unsolicited advice. Lay down on a couch and brainstorm why you want to become a US Military Officer. Keep it simple. This will make others perceive your endeavor with more validity (for the lack of a better term) and it will assist you in talking points. Expounding on your desire to become a US Military Officer is crucial to garner letters or recommendation for your OCS packet.

The US Army OCS packet requires a one page essay on why I want to be an Army Officer. That is why I tell soldiers to brainstorm, and as I alluded to earlier, soldiers will sound more convincing if they prepare themselves. You will go before a local Army OCS board once your packet is completed. The board will not ask you tactical questions like what are the various formations for maneuver. This will give an advantage to those who have tactical experiences. They will ask broad questions like what did you like about your first job or did you have a boss that you did not like and how did you handle the situation.

I would like you to think about why you want to become a US Military Officer and provide 3 bullets that you can expound on.

I hope that I painted the picture for you to the degree that it facilitates your endeavor. I don't have all the answers, but I will be here should you have questions.

That's an excellent suggestion and a route I've definitely considered. Who knows, I may even end up applying if I don't get picked up from this packet. I appreciate your input.

I'll clarify what I'm seeking from either commissioning, or enlisting.

1. Structure and discipline

2. The opportunity to grow and develop as a person

3. Transferable skills (technical, leadership, experience in general, etc.)

4. Fulfillment (serving the country and feeling like my role is meaningful)

5. Benefits (Post 9/11, Montgomery, TA, etc.)

As you can see, these goals aren't restricted to any particular MOS/Rate, Branch, O/E, etc.

I appreciate your input. Hopefully, if I commission, I won't have to experience that kind of talk; but I'm sure it's, due to the nature of the position, it's inevitable. I'm very firm about the military being my first professional career move and I don't think that will change.

Thank you for your input! I've heard from my talk with E/O, that enlisted is very technical and job-oriented, whereas O is more-so a management position (obviously alongside your job). At the end of the day, my goals are service, growth, technical training and the benefits that come post-service. I think either side will be able to provide those opportunities.

Thank you very much, sir!

Those are excellent suggestions. There is the concern of this seemingly floppy commitment to any one particular branch (I've gone from applying for CG to Navy and maybe eventually another branch), will reflect poorly on me.

Thank you for your offer, please expect me to contact you, asking about your experiences.

Well, first off, let me say that my answer is based on experience that is dated (1976-2008) within the Navy from both sides of the fence.
If you're set on a commission, keep trying. If you can't make the cut on active duty side, try the reserves. Once you're commissioned in the reserves and serve a couple years, apply for transfer into active side.
If you can't get commission initially, enlist in reserves and shoot for Intel Specialist. Do a couple years that way to "prove" yourself to the Officer cadre who will be sitting on your board, Volunteer for and be successful at the more difficult assignments, keep up with current events, take advantage of as many schools as you can get into and perform as much active duty as you can get. THEN, apply for the Direct Commission Intel Officer Program.
One last thought, with your Maritime Administration degree, have you thought of applying for a commission in the US Merchant Marine? Serve some time and apply for transfer to USN.
Good luck...I did 8 years enlisted, then DIRCOMM'd Intel and retired as Captain. Granted, it was mostly reserve time but in last 15 years, I put over 3000 days on active duty because I could. That allowed for good FITREP's signed by significant folks and rapid promotions...not to mention lots of points toward retirement computation. I retired with right at 48% base pay (equal to 20 real years active duty).
Gig em,
Lee72 CAPT USN (Ret)

P.S. - if you're married or plan to be, make sure she's totally onboard as navy tends to be gone a lot which is hard on families. And as a Chaplain (yes, a Chaplain) told me in front of my wife "if the Navy had wanted [me] to have a wife, it would have issued [me] one."

I had never considered the Reserve route, thank you for bringing this to my attention! Intel has always been an interest for me, so that sounds like an appealing back-up plan. As it stands, I'm looking to do my 4 and get out, but, if I enjoy it, 20 is certainly an option.

I've discussed it with my girlfriend many times and laid everything out for her. She says she's onboard with it, but only time will tell.

Thank you very much again!

I've certainly considered WOFT and I'd be open to discussing it more, if you'd be willing to. Thank you for your well wishes!

SeanLucas2020 said:

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I had never considered the Reserve route, thank you for bringing this to my attention! Intel has always been an interest for me, so that sounds like an appealing back-up plan. As it stands, I'm looking to do my 4 and get out, but, if I enjoy it, 20 is certainly an option.

I've discussed it with my girlfriend many times and laid everything out for her. She says she's onboard with it, but only time will tell.

Thank you very much again!

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I want to paint the picture for you.

Our footprint in Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten SIGNIFICANTLY smaller. This DRAMATICALLY reduces chances of deploying. Deployments for units is training intensive as units invest several months to prepare and train for deployments. After Combined General Staff College in 2013 all of us MAJs in that class had follow on orders to Iraq or Afghanistan. It is different now. I was active army for 20 years and I moved the family 9 times. This puts a lot of stress on children.