Moved into a new house last fall, and our 240 V electric LG dryer never tripped once for like 8 months. Now it seems to trip mid-cycle randomly. There is a 30 amp GFCI breaker on it. We got the exhaust pipe cleaned just in case it was causing an overheating trip, but it is still tripping. Any ideas?
Electric Dryer tripping breaker
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Last: 4 mo ago by Absolute
Swap out the breaker for a new one
I had to look up to see that code actually requires GFCI breakers on Dryers now.
Google indicates checking the jumper from the neutral to ground on the dryer itself.
Google indicates checking the jumper from the neutral to ground on the dryer itself.
I was thinking bad breaker too, but the house is so new. I thought weak breakers didn't happen for years. I'll try calling the builder's electrician next.
Also, I confirmed at the back of the dryer that the electrical connections were good.
Also, I confirmed at the back of the dryer that the electrical connections were good.
What does "good" mean? 87IE mentions a good one to check, but in this case, if your neutral and ground are tied together inside the dryer, they likely need to be separated. New house will have a 4 wire receptacle.Thunderstruck xx said:
Also, I confirmed at the back of the dryer that the electrical connections were good.
My money is on the 2nd ground rod (kidding!)
Good in the sense that the manual seemed to indicate it was good. Here's a pic. Anything look wrong?
It's likely this white jumper is your problem. The other end looks like it goes to the frame, which ties the ground and neutral together. This allows some current on the EGC, which trips the GFI element. Confirm the other end goes to the frame, and if so, just remove it from the connection. This is on machines for the older 3 wire style receptacles. It's probably mentioned in your manual.
So the manual itself seems to contradict that because it says to transfer the machine's ground to the neutral terminal. The wire in question does not connect as you showed. It loops back into another part of the dryer I can't see.
Thunderstruck xx said:
Good in the sense that the manual seemed to indicate it was good. Here's a pic. Anything look wrong?
The strain relief clamp should be on top of the black secondary casing and not directly on the colored wires. I would make sure the clamp has not worn a hole in the colored wires from vibration. Also check all the connection screws as gfci does not like any looseness at those points
Got it - that helps make some sense of it. My guess about that jumper was incorrect and it does not tie it the neutral back to the frame. Sorry.
All the connections were tight, and I didn't see any holes worn in the wires. I fixed the strain relief like you said. I'll monitor it and see if it trips again.
BenTheGoodAg said:
Got it - that helps make some sense of it. My guess about that jumper was incorrect and it does not tie it the neutral back to the frame. Sorry.
No worries. I saw your comment about my ground rod. They installed the ground rod on 4/30 and we didn't notice the dryer tripping until around 5/20. I know you were kidding, but maybe it's something?
There's a low chance it could make the system slightly lower impedance to ground, which could effectively make a GFI more sensitive to pick up on something that was already there, but it wouldn't introduce an issue like this.
What kind of breaker is it? Is it blinking to indicate any error codes? Overly sensitive GFCI breakers are a known problem in the industry and depending on what you have could be under warranty for free replacement from the manufacturer.
I have no clue. It doesn't have any writing on it like my other breakers. Does this pic tell you anything?
Edit: I guess it is this one based on the pic.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-BR-30-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker/999977476
Edit: I guess it is this one based on the pic.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-BR-30-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker/999977476
The BR230 is what you have on the oven below. For the dryer I would guess that is a QBGFT2030 which I believe is an obsolete breaker model now and would run $200-$300.
I don't believe that breaker type had the sensitivity issues I mentioned before so you probably don't want to replace it unless you know it's bad.
I don't believe that breaker type had the sensitivity issues I mentioned before so you probably don't want to replace it unless you know it's bad.
New, and increasing, requirements for GF protection all over the place are going to prove to be the bane of our existences. I'd take out the GFCI breaker and replace it with a non GFCI one. Hang on to it and swap them if you ever sell the house. We somehow managed to survive all these years without GF protection on a dryer. I'd reckon we can make it a few more.
The problem is that breaker is looking for somewhere between 4 and 6 milliamps of differential current. Might see it today, might see it tomorrow. Might never see it. Might see just a little bit on an off day when you get just the right temp, humidity, or alignment of grapes in your fridge.
It's killing us in commercial kitchen applications where equipment controls and power supplies get ornery and call the GF breaker a MF and the fight is on.
The problem is that breaker is looking for somewhere between 4 and 6 milliamps of differential current. Might see it today, might see it tomorrow. Might never see it. Might see just a little bit on an off day when you get just the right temp, humidity, or alignment of grapes in your fridge.
It's killing us in commercial kitchen applications where equipment controls and power supplies get ornery and call the GF breaker a MF and the fight is on.
I was wondering the same thing because it did not start happening until the weather was warmer.
Right. Can anyone explain why a dryer needs GFI protection?
This definitely stinks of manufacturers making up the code-making panels. (Hint - Eaton is one of them on article 210)
This definitely stinks of manufacturers making up the code-making panels. (Hint - Eaton is one of them on article 210)
Welp, today the breaker tripped again. This time when I try to close it, the breaker trips itself immediately. Any ideas? Probably need an electrician to look at it now.
Edit: I waited about 15 min and now it closes again. This must be temperature related. The breaker felt pretty warm at first.
Edit: I waited about 15 min and now it closes again. This must be temperature related. The breaker felt pretty warm at first.
I have heard this a lot on new home inspections since the GFCI implementation on the dryer circuit.
An Electrician told me it is a simple fix with the wiring of the plug in the dryer most of the time. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact solution of the wiring. Google might.
An Electrician told me it is a simple fix with the wiring of the plug in the dryer most of the time. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact solution of the wiring. Google might.
We were discussing that above, but it seems like I have it wired correctly for my outlet type.
How new of a house? When was it built?
If it is built to current electrical code, you will need to remove that jumper on you dryer for it to not trip your breaker.
If it is built to current electrical code, you will need to remove that jumper on you dryer for it to not trip your breaker.
TxAgg07 said:
How new of a house? When was it built?
If it is built to current electrical code, you will need to remove that jumper on you dryer for it to not trip your breaker.
The house is less than a year old. I'm not sure I have the jumper you're talking about. If you follow the second white wire it goes somewhere back inside the machine. How would I know if it is a jumper? The other white wire pictured is the one from the power cord.
It's the second white wire. Someone mentioned the same thing to you above and circled it on the picture.
TxAgg07 said:
It's the second white wire. Someone mentioned the same thing to you above and circled it on the picture.
Read all the follow up posts. It's not wired how that picture seems to suggest. That is not a jumper to ground. It is wired how the manual says it should be for my type of plug.
So the builder's electrician said tons of people in my neighborhood have the same issue, so got him to replace the breaker with a non-GFCI one. Hopefully that's fine.
Just not sure if I made the right call putting a non-GFCI breaker. I don't want to void insurance or warranties. I should probably ask him to put in a new GFCI breaker first and see if that solves it.
For reference, this is the GFCI breaker that was in there:
For reference, this is the GFCI breaker that was in there:
OH MY GOD WHAT DID YOU...
Nah, just chain yanking. We managed to survive a good number of years without GFCI breakers on dryers just fine. I'm not a fan of it at all, like not even a little bit, and would have swapped it on my house if it had one. Your biggest risk is if you go to sell the house. A home inspector may note it on an inspection, in which case you put the old one back in or get a new one. The NEC requirement for having GFCI protection describes "laundry areas" but really hadn't been pushed onto dryer circuits until last couple of years or so.
Your best risk mitigation for a dryer is keeping it and the vent clear of lint and fluff.
Nah, just chain yanking. We managed to survive a good number of years without GFCI breakers on dryers just fine. I'm not a fan of it at all, like not even a little bit, and would have swapped it on my house if it had one. Your biggest risk is if you go to sell the house. A home inspector may note it on an inspection, in which case you put the old one back in or get a new one. The NEC requirement for having GFCI protection describes "laundry areas" but really hadn't been pushed onto dryer circuits until last couple of years or so.
Your best risk mitigation for a dryer is keeping it and the vent clear of lint and fluff.
The 5mA sensitivity on the label is the NEC requirement. The GFCI is looking for a nominal 5mA of differential current between the phases and neutral. What goes out, must come back. If it senses the tiniest little bit of leakage current, it pops. The problem is that there is quite often a little bit of leakage current through the windings of motors. Just happens. Get the right circumstance and the GFCI will nuisance trip. Same issue with compressor motors in fridges and freezers when you put one in the garage. Even though the code says 5mA nominal, it allows a manufacturer tolerance of 4-6mA. Get one with the 4ish range and it's even easier to nuisance trip.
I had the electrician swap out the breaker for a new GFCI breaker of the same brand. Now it has tripped twice, but not when the dryer is running. Is that pointing to another potential issue with the dryer or the wiring?
Edit: with this new breaker, it is now just tripping itself instantly without anything plugged into the outlet. WTF.
Edit: with this new breaker, it is now just tripping itself instantly without anything plugged into the outlet. WTF.
GFCI breakers have a white pigtail which gets connected to the neutral bus bar. Any idea where this landed?
UnderoosAg said:
GFCI breakers have a white pigtail which gets connected to the neutral bus bar. Any idea where this landed?
I seem to remember that he connected that at the neutral bus terminal.
Now you're really into gremlin chasing, and why I'm not a fan of trying to GFCI everything. A few options
The GFCI breaker connects to the neutral bus because it watches the current going out on the hot(s) and coming back on the neutral. What goes out should come back. If it does not, there is potentially a ground fault someplace and it trips as a precaution. The challenge is that your service panel should have the neutral to ground bond which occurs in service equipment. I can't help but wonder if you are getting a small amount of objectionable current via that bond. It's kinda like wiping a booger on the wall. One ain't a big deal, but 100 is gross.
How far is it from your service panel to the dryer? There's also a phenomenon called preloading. On a long enough circuit, you can get little amounts of leakage current or capacitive coupling which are mostly harmless, but add up (much like wall boogers). It makes your GFCI start out much closer to nuisance tripping.
- Disconnect the conductors from the dryer receptacle and see if the breaker still instantly trips. If it stops, it could have been a wiring issue in the box or at the receptacle.
- Megger the cable to the dryer outlet to make sure it doesn't have a staple though it someplace.
- Shut off the other breakers in what looks like your service panel and leave on only the dryer breaker. See if it still instantly trips.
The GFCI breaker connects to the neutral bus because it watches the current going out on the hot(s) and coming back on the neutral. What goes out should come back. If it does not, there is potentially a ground fault someplace and it trips as a precaution. The challenge is that your service panel should have the neutral to ground bond which occurs in service equipment. I can't help but wonder if you are getting a small amount of objectionable current via that bond. It's kinda like wiping a booger on the wall. One ain't a big deal, but 100 is gross.
How far is it from your service panel to the dryer? There's also a phenomenon called preloading. On a long enough circuit, you can get little amounts of leakage current or capacitive coupling which are mostly harmless, but add up (much like wall boogers). It makes your GFCI start out much closer to nuisance tripping.
Man... I've gone all my life without hearing that expression and can promise you I will use it from now on.Quote:
It's kinda like wiping a booger on the wall. One ain't a big deal, but 100 is gross.
Blue star for you.