Welll, that's not ideal, but that should be a pretty easy fix. That's a double wall flue so we'll need the flue, flashing kit, cap, and a hole. Give me a shout and let's talk. Sorry you have to deal with it but at least it's a double wall and not like you found the mortared over a hearth or something.

Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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Welll, that's not ideal, but that should be a pretty easy fix. That's a double wall flue so we'll need the flue, flashing kit, cap, and a hole. Give me a shout and let's talk. Sorry you have to deal with it but at least it's a double wall and not like you found the mortared over a hearth or something.

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Thanks, Jason. Email sent with my contact info.

Good Lord! And I thought my recent inspector was bad with some stuff he missed. I would be wondering if that framing that got heated up was still structurally sound.

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but this is why I think the current status of prepurchase inspections are a sham.

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I think home inspections are basically a waste of money. I have *never* seen any of the reports that found anything meaningful on the houses I have bought or sold.

I don't care about plugs wired backwards, loose switch covers, cracked caulk around windows, bolts in attic pulldown stairs to joists missing, drawer stops missing, etc. I can fix that sort of stuff myself.

On my last couple of houses, I have just gotten foundation inspections from a licensed PE and termite inspections.

AgLA06 said:

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I'm generally the last person to say something like this......

I'd probably get with someone who specializes in home litigation and let them go after the home inspection company, seller, and whoever installed the fireplace to replace that area of roof and structure as well as putting y'all at risk. Not only attempted manslaughter for burning down the house with your family in it, but carbon monoxide poisoning and a myriad of other harmful things. Whoever was involved in that shouldn't be constructing or making building decisions moving forward.

It's one thing to cut corners trying to make a buck, but that's beyond fraud. That's putting people's lives at danger.

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I'm not an attorney but don't inspections typically have a ton of CYA language in them?

Silvy said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I dunno, I think it's pretty important to get the major systems inspected like the roof, plumbing, A/C, and electrical. Those can cost you $$$$ if there's a problem.

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In the report from my home inspector, the extent of his roof inspection was a couple lifted shingles, general wear & tear, and he recommended a roofer should further evaluate.

For HVAC it was " AC unit was operating properly at time of inspection. Recommend having a professional AC Tech inspect and service unit for proper efficiency."

The best was the plumbing section. He stated exterior hose bibs were not present and took photos showing the hose bibs in place. He didn't notice that there was no P trap under the kitchen sink and the washing machine drain wasn't vented.

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I get what you're saying. Most inspectors don't know enough to tell you everything that's wrong, but sometimes they catch things that would be good to know before buying... If they are good at their job.

That vaults to the top of my inspection fu list. I've seen similar but not that. Wow!

Seems like even a lazy inspector could have stuck his head in the fireplace and looked up with a flashlight, unless the flue arrangement is funky. Something would have been immediately obvious.

htxag09 said:

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SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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How did that pass the pre purchase inspection!

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I deleted it from the op but this is why I think the current status of prepurchase inspections are a sham. I assume it wasn't caught because of the location. It's hard to get to, even to see. It's behind the ac unit, so have to squeeze around it, and have to go under or over like 4 ducts to get there. And it's 20'+ from the attic decking.

So, the inspector filled the report with stuff like the water faucet filters being clogged but didn't make the effort to locate where the fireplace was venting to.

Yeah, really annoyed it was missed. Also curious if the sellers disclosure stating no unpermitted renovations were done could help me on that side. Obviously this wasn't permitted.

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I'd bet it wasn't permitted work, but I also would not be shocked if it was. Permitting and inspections catch some stuff, but code inspectors can be just as lazy too, especially if what they can see looks good enough.

Is there a pipe on the outside of the roof? Didn't look like there was a hole in the roof from your picture.

holy crap. that is a giant miss by the inspector.

Absolute said:

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Is there a pipe on the outside of the roof? Didn't look like there was a hole in the roof from your picture.

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Honestly don't think so. There definitely isn't a hole in the roof.

The roof was replaced in 2021. My guess....there was water damage so they replaced the decking and forgot or just never re did the flue/vent and left it open in the attic.

Also....I came to the realization yesterday that the sellers had an inspection done before listing. So two inspectors missed this....

The seller's inspector's notes:

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J- Fireplaces and Chimneys: Comments
About Chimneys:
Visible and accessible portions of the chimney are inspected. Any observed defects are noted in the inspection report. Examples of inspected parts include the firebox, flue, lintel, fuel source, combustion air, hearth extension, combustibles and attic penetration. Exterior parts include the chimney extension, spark arrestor, chimney cap and crown. Drafting of the chimney is not tested. We always recommend a complete examination and cleaning (if needed) by a qualified and licensed chimney sweep prior to using the fireplace or any of its accessories. Any deficiencies found could be an indication of a more serious condition. We recommend further evaluation by a qualified professional for further evaluation and diagnosis if there are concerns.

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Obviously didn't inspect all they said they did. Only comments they had in section J were a picture of the damper and:

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Damper Configuration:
Damper should be blocked open with the presence of gas accessories

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My inspector's notes:
It was checked as inspected, no other checks (i.e. not checked as deficient)

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J. Fireplaces and Chimneys
Comments - See Photo Section If Deficient Box Is Checked
Due to liability concerns, gas logs are not ignited during testing. Limitations: We strongly recommend that prior to using any wood burning fireplace or appliance that the client first has the unit thoroughly inspected, and if necessary cleaned, by a qualified, licensed chimney sweep.

Method of Inspection: Inspection of fireplaces and chimneys focuses on observation of visible and accessible components of the firebox, hearth extension, fuel source, combustion air source, doors, circulation fan, lintel damper, flue, fire blocking at attic penetration, chimney crown, cap and spark arrester. Defects observed in the visible portions of these components are noted in the report. No testing of the draft performance is performed. Defects concealed from view, or are not visible if the roof is inspected from the ground or roof eave level are excluded from the scope of this inspection.

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Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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Ignoring the inspection issue…there are two likely reasons for this. Are there any spots where the decking looks different or newer than surrounding decking?

1.). A remodel and addition of the fireplace out the flue in a bad spot and the remodeler didn't have supplies to terminate it properly. It's best to go straight up, but you have a lot of framing and it really can't. They didn't know what to do and the whole ide was abandoned. This is possible but not likely.


2. ) A storm blew over the chimney or they had a chronic leak at the roof penetration. Rather than spending money fixing that, they had the roofer throw it all away and just deck over the hole since the owner didn't use it anyway. This is a more likely scenario. We remove leaking vents in Lieu of other options all the time. Never removed a flue but it's possible.

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or when they replaced the roof, the flue was leaking/broken and they just forgot replace it.

htxag09 said:

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Also....I came to the realization yesterday that the sellers had an inspection done before listing. So two inspectors missed this....

The seller's inspector's notes:

Quote:

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J- Fireplaces and Chimneys: Comments
About Chimneys:
Visible and accessible portions of the chimney are inspected. Any observed defects are noted in the inspection report. Examples of inspected parts include the firebox, flue, lintel, fuel source, combustion air, hearth extension, combustibles and attic penetration. Exterior parts include the chimney extension, spark arrestor, chimney cap and crown. Drafting of the chimney is not tested. We always recommend a complete examination and cleaning (if needed) by a qualified and licensed chimney sweep prior to using the fireplace or any of its accessories. Any deficiencies found could be an indication of a more serious condition. We recommend further evaluation by a qualified professional for further evaluation and diagnosis if there are concerns.

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Obviously didn't inspect all they said they did. Only comments they had in section J were a picture of the damper and:

Quote:

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Damper Configuration:
Damper should be blocked open with the presence of gas accessories

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My inspector's notes:
It was checked as inspected, no other checks (i.e. not checked as deficient)

Quote:

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J. Fireplaces and Chimneys
Comments - See Photo Section If Deficient Box Is Checked
Due to liability concerns, gas logs are not ignited during testing. Limitations: We strongly recommend that prior to using any wood burning fireplace or appliance that the client first has the unit thoroughly inspected, and if necessary cleaned, by a qualified, licensed chimney sweep.

Method of Inspection: Inspection of fireplaces and chimneys focuses on observation of visible and accessible components of the firebox, hearth extension, fuel source, combustion air source, doors, circulation fan, lintel damper, flue, fire blocking at attic penetration, chimney crown, cap and spark arrester. Defects observed in the visible portions of these components are noted in the report. No testing of the draft performance is performed. Defects concealed from view, or are not visible if the roof is inspected from the ground or roof eave level are excluded from the scope of this inspection.

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So the sellers inspector inspected "attic penetration" and signed off.

Your inspector appears to only have looked at fireplace in the living room area. Unless there's notes on the roof inspection for the chimney.

Is there or is there not a chimney on your roof? That's what I'm most confused about. How did they replace the roof and deck under a chimney. Seems there's not one there that should have been a huge red flag for everyone. Because based on the roof structure, I see no signs there was ever a penetration through the roof structure for a chimney cap.

No chimney, I just assumed a flue as chimney's aren't required.

Even if they couldn't get to the chimney in the attic easily, they should have connected the fireplace (that they should know has to be vented out,) with the missing chimney. It's just one of those things as an inspector that you should subconsciously pickup on as a "something isn't right here" vibe. Happens all the time, to me. Not saying I don't miss things, everyone does, but sometimes there are indirect ways to find stuff. That is a bad miss by two inspectors.

Depending on the history of the house, there are lots of scenarios, but they don't really matter. I would tend to think it was not a modification, probably a builder error. Which means even more people who should not have missed it, did.

Good news is nothing castestrphic happened and the fix should be pretty easy, as Jason said.

Betting you'll find this wording on the report

This inspection is subject to the rules ("Rules") of the Texas Real Estate Commission ("TREC"), which can be found at www.trec.state.tx.us.
The TREC Standards of Practice (Sections 535.227-535.233 of the Rules) are the minimum standards for inspections by TREC-licensed inspectors. An inspection addresses only those components and conditions that are present, visible, and accessible at the time of the inspection. While there may be other parts, components or systems present, only those items specifically noted as being inspected were inspected. The inspector is not required to move furnishings or stored items. The inspection report may address issues that are code-based or may refer to a particular code; however, this is NOT a code compliance inspection and does NOT verify compliance with manufacturer's installation instructions. The inspection does NOT imply insurability or warrantability of the structure or its components. Although some safety issues may be addressed in this report, this inspection is NOT a safety/code inspection, and the inspector is NOT required to identify all potential hazards.

Bonfire.1996 said:

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Fireplace expert here:

That's a wood burning flue, despite it being installed with gas logs. That requires waaaay more than a basic termination/roof penetration and a metal roof jack. That requires a chase/chimney that complies with fire code extending beyond the apex of the roofline, and a spark arrestor termination kit.

It's highly unlikely that is a remodel, as rarely do builders leave that kind of space in the downstairs floor plan. It most likely was framed wrong when built with no chase built. The fireplace installer likely left it awaiting Chase construction that never happened. I'm thoroughly shocked that the house is still standing.

I would absolutely litigate against both inspectors and potentially the builder. One look at the fireplace unit itself, and one look at the damper, and one can know there is supposed to be a required Chase and spark arrestor. It really is not complicated. The lack of a Chase extending up past the apex of the roof should have been noted visually from the ground.

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Are you in Houston or have someone you'd recommend to come look at it and get me quotes?

As for litigation against the builder...the house was built in 2003 and currently do not know who the builder was.

And obligatory username checks out