Yep. Not enough people going into trades, and not enough people care to learn how to some basic stuff. Basic supply and demand. My son and I will be switching out 8 switches this weekend for smart switches. Good intro to basic electrical for him.

I do all my own work in my house with the exception of electrical where I could get killed. There is too much information out there to be had to learn how to do it correctly. I'll pay for a trade to come do something when I absolutely do not have the tools or know how.

for a bathroom faucet, while I understand you can't do it yourself for various physical reasons, find a generic handy man to do it for less than a master plumber. You don't need the plumber skillset for that. Now, to properly sodder things and put in the right vales and such - prob best to pay up.

About to upgrade a bunch of switches to USB-C since all the standard ones are rarely used anymore. Might find some with both and just do that

I feel your pain but must have angels coming most times, then devils other.
Mar 2019 the 4-hose bibbs & washer bibbs from the 80's were corroded/etc. useless was the next stop on this train ride.
$185 labor/parts in less than an hour; plumber acquaintance down the street

Another time I was promised water heater parts on the truck ... NOT ... 1/2 day "down the drain" but was not charged for the delivery wait time. 80's problem feed gate valve leak tightened then ignored (replaced w/ball by an ideal plumber later)

I know that if I am expected to go-see something and don't get prepaid or hired for the solution in my biz, I would be forced to be in step with others that charge diagnostic fees (reversed if hired to solve), first trip fees, etc. So once a customer becomes a "regular" and "fast pay", I've found the fees reasonable and getting the better skills coming out pronto. This says to me that the general public is ... not profitable, ergo these defenses in fees.

Agreed. A one time job for tradesmen means time away from someone else who supplies them with steady business. Hence the up charge.

dallasiteinsa02 said:

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I had a leaking toilet that needed the inside equipment replaced. I bought it and intended to do it myself. Took the toilet apart but could get the parts off the toilet. Called a plumber and he came out to give me a quote. I had the parts and the toilet already apart. He couldn't get the leaking parts off at first but then gave me the quote. He wanted $1400. I was in shock. I took the parts back bought a new nicer toilet for $300 and installed it myself.

Flat rate pricing became the standard back in the early 2000s. They all buy these elaborate programs to quote the work kind of like auto repair places. If they start clicking all the things that they are going to do, it gets up there pretty quickly. At some point, they have to take a step back and look at the final number.

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I feel like this is an exception, though. That's crazy and while the OP's costs were obviously marked up, nothing like this.

But, at the end of the day, these professions are in high demand. Why would they come to your house and replace a faucet for $50 of profit when they could do a bigger job (which all in probably doesn't take that much more time) for $300? Profit margins on these smaller jobs will be higher accordingly.

Dill-Ag13 said:

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Supply and demand. Young people, especially men that are not cut out for 4 years of college would make a killing in the trades.

I have learned to DIY a lot of electrical and plumbing (though I am grateful I am young and able).

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I have saved myself SO MUCH money doing most electrical and plumbing jobs myself. I recently had tk hand chip out a cracked toilet flange, file off debris and replace with new. I cant imagine how much that would have cost me to get a plumber out.

Even so, kids and creatures break stuff or just S happens. They probably save a ton of money by not always having to do projects for their wives.

I normally do all my own repairs but occasionally I'll run into something I don't feel like I should be handling or just don't want to. For those jobs I have a local handyman and he charges $75/hr. I feel like that's reasonable for quick jobs.

I will say I also farm out certain things that I don't want to do, like entry way light fixture changes or major drywall work, or anything in the electric panel, but I will do most things from small to large renovation projects. We get cheap labor from trades my wife works with through her company so I dont generally feel the full brunt of the costs, either.


Are young men not interested in being handy anymore, or did they just not get taught this stiff by fathers? Is it the demasculinization of the American male? I didn't have anyone to really show me any of the stuff I learned to do so it was mostly trial and error or borne out of necessity.

I'm the same as you, self-taught, lots of mistakes but a desire to learn and motivated to save money

Yep. YouTube has saved me so much money over the years because there's usually a video or two for the exact problem and product I'm trying to fix.

We woke up one morning with water all over the floor in the laundry room from the washer we didn't the previous day. Looked on YouTube and found a video on what it was, and a $25 part from Amazon fixed it. Same with the garage fridge. Freezer part was as cold as it should be but the fridge only got to about 60*. Began looking on YT and saw 2 different things it could be, so started with the cheapest. Ordered the part off of Amazon for like $20 and it fixed it.

aTm2004 said:

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My brother dropped out of HS after his junior year, spent the first half of his 20s screwing around and hanging out in bars. He finally got his act together after his girlfriend ended up pregnant and got his GED, and is now a licensed electrician. He sold his house near the end of 2022 for close to $1mm and spent the next year living in his Hilton on wheels while they built their new house, which they moved into right before Christmas. Outside of his house, he pays for everything in cash, including his KR F-250.

Meanwhile, I graduated at the top of my HS class, went to A&M, and have been climbing the proverbial corporate ladder since I was 23 and am not sniffing the financial and job security he has. You could say it's anecdotal, and it could be, but the guy that lived across the street from him in his old neighborhood was a HVAC guy and the one that did the HVAC work in my brother's new house and garage apartment (2 adult special needs kids).

Learn the trades.

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I'm curious, does he work independently or does he own a business and have other electricians working for him? I have always been curious about these tradesmen and whether they can be highly successful like your brother by continuing to do the labor or do the really successful ones eventually need to expand their business and have other electricians/plumbers working for them.

aTm2004 said:

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My brother dropped out of HS after his junior year, spent the first half of his 20s screwing around and hanging out in bars. He finally got his act together after his girlfriend ended up pregnant and got his GED, and is now a licensed electrician. He sold his house near the end of 2022 for close to $1mm and spent the next year living in his Hilton on wheels while they built their new house, which they moved into right before Christmas. Outside of his house, he pays for everything in cash, including his KR F-250.

Meanwhile, I graduated at the top of my HS class, went to A&M, and have been climbing the proverbial corporate ladder since I was 23 and am not sniffing the financial and job security he has. You could say it's anecdotal, and it could be, but the guy that lived across the street from him in his old neighborhood was a HVAC guy and the one that did the HVAC work in my brother's new house and garage apartment (2 adult special needs kids).

Learn the trades.

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Does he own his own business? Commercial or residential or both?

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Are young men not interested in being handy anymore, or did they just not get taught this stiff by fathers?

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We are the generation of a service economy - hire it out. As a society, we've stopped cooking, and even worse than eating out all the time, we now hire someone to bring us food. I don't get it. Our family cooks all the time...eat out occassionally when schedules dictate it. I will never UberEats or GrubHub something - what a waste. The younger generation I work with seemingly do this all the time almost everyday all week. Insane.

My dad did all the work in/around the house himself until he became handicapped when I was 5. He had me doing it all at a very young age. I have someone take care of my yard now, but I do most all the repairs/maintenance in my own house until its too large for me or my skills or its dangerous.

He's independent and does mostly residential, IIRC. I know there are some businesses he works with as well as several GCs for any electrical work they may need on their jobs. He typically has a couple of young guys that work for him for a few years before they eventually leave to do their own thing, and he just finds another. Don't get me wrong, he hustles and works hard, but it's a great career and one he had a knack for, and those half hour $250 jobs add up pretty quickly.

One of the benefits that I think is often missed is the barter system that exists within the trades. With the HVAC system in his new house, some of that cost was offset by the HVAC guy wanting a whole home generator, so my brother did the electrical stuff for him. He also offset some other costs by trading work with those guys. Not to mention he saved a ton by wiring the house himself.

My drain pump went out 3 days ago, I troubleshot it and cleared the lines and it still didn't work so I ordered the new part from Amazon and repaired it in about 30 minutes. It took me longer to find my o ring silicone than it did to fix the thing. That was easily a $200+ job for a repairman if people didn't just up and buy a new one.

Sea Spee said:

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Are young men not interested in being handy anymore, or did they just not get taught this stiff by fathers? Is it the demasculinization of the American male? I didn't have anyone to really show me any of the stuff I learned to do so it was mostly trial and error or borne out of necessity.

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As a small business owner (cabinetmaker/woodworker) I have tried to teach/employ about 5 guys and 2 girls one at a time here and there over the years. Same things every time...work is too hard, work is too dirty, work is not exciting enough (sanding...what else can I have them do?), pay is not enough, can make better money sitting...

Main problem at 16-19 years old or so, is that they don't see the big picture of working for a small company vs. a corporation, learning a skill, possibly that skill making home ownership more possible. They only see money in their hand on friday.

My skill will die with me.

Not to get political (which means I will)...but if a certain unnamed gov't forgives student loans to those who went to college, those who don't go to college get no benefit. Equity? Why can't the scales get balanced a bit by that gov't to give businesses (small or large but especially small) subsidies/incentives to hire unskilled young non-college people? If the gov't gave me $10/hr per employee, and then I can pay the employee $20/hr, they may be inclined to stay and learn. And if it only costs me in the end $10/hr for someone who knows nothing, I might be more inclined to teach them. Tough to justify $20+/hr for someone who can barely sweep a floor.

I have an hvac friend that helps me all the time - over the phone, answers texts, and gives me good deals everytime. Did a full inside out replace of a 3 ton 14 seer unit for $7500 for me.

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We have a stigma in this country against trades and I do believe that it is changing. I have had customers tell me to my face "why don't you get a real job" and "I bet you wish you'd gone to college, huh?" Those are cringey comments. because it's very dismissive to those who simply CANT go to college. I was fortunate to have that opportunity afforded to me through hard work, sacrifice and luck. But not everyone gets that opportunity. As evidenced in this thread, tons of non degreed professionals are earning well Above their degreed peers.

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I think my FIL dealt with this alittle. Was a plumber for 40+ years and was damn good at it. But when when me and my wife started dating I think he was little embarassed of that due to my background. Eff that. My attitude was without plumbers, we'd all be in deep ***** Someone's gotta do the work. The fewer people that can do it and do it well the more it's going to cost. Simple.

Next up, replumb outdoor bathroom. Picking up a PEX expansion tool today. Fun.

OP, they call this FU pricing because small jobs aren't worth their time for the payoff. I once had a plumber charge me $90 just to come look at my water heater and give me a quote for a new one. That company ended up being the highest quote out of three others which were free quotes, oh but I could use that $90 towards their insanely high cost!

We are pushing my step son on just this. He took a financial literacy class in high school and they had an exercise looking at college loans. Ever since that class he's said full ride athletic or trade school were the only options.

Think how we got here though…parents or grandparents were tradesmen that worked hard for average pay. The supply of tradesmen was high so the wages were down. College educated population was lower so college educated jobs paid more. Now all of that has flipped because parents didn't want us to grind in the trades for average pay. Everybody went to college, paid no attention to learning trades, and now has to call someone for everything that breaks. I believe it's all a cycle and will eventually get back to equilibrium. Kids are learning they can make really good money right now in the trades and I suspect an uptick in people getting into the trades will happen. Human nature to follow the money. Will the trades still be this lucrative in 20 years? There's a lot of cheap labor coming over the border now. Something to think about.

Even when you don't know what you're doing, you can at least try to learn enough to avoid a "pro" taking advantage of you. My recent example: hot water issue in house with a new hot water heater installed 1.5 years ago. Had a spike of hotter than usual water followed by cold.

Watched YouTube videos that said check the reset switch. It had reset itself, so I pushed the button. Hot water back some but ran out quickly. Assumed based on what I read and watched that the initial reset may have been due to a bad thermostat or heating element.

Call company that installed the heater for prior owner. They send someone who doesn't really try to confirm what the issue may be but says he can come back the following day to install new thermostats and heating elements. Says labor would be $230 at least and other stuff could end up going as high as $900 total.

Last owner left the invoice showing the new unit install was less than $3k, but they wanted possibly $900 to replace a few cheap parts (learned from reading the parts aren't that expensive usually). Invoice also mentioned parts and labor warranties, but this guy said new owner wouldn't honor it (prior company was bought out by this one). That alone was bad enough, but I had also read that a competent tech could diagnose the issue rather than just installing new everything.

Called a different company that I would have started with if I hadn't thought everything was covered under warranty by prior company. My preferred company got info over the phone and confirmed parts were covered by Rheem under warranty so only cost would be labor. Gave me their labor prices up front. They diagnosed the issue, worked with Rheem on parts replacement for me, flushed tank, installed, etc. for $135.