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Smart Electrical Panels

3,266 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by DeLaHonta
DeLaHonta
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7:25p, 11/12/23
AG
I bought a new house with an ancient electrical panel and will be upgrading it. Have any of you installed a smart panel (e.g. Span or Leviton Load Center), and what's your experience with it?

From what I've read online, Span seems to be the better product and app, but the fact that the company has only existed since 2018 isn't confidence inspiring. Span uses standard breakers, whereas Leviton uses proprietary ones, and the Leviton app supposedly isn't great. Would love to get opinions of anyone who has had one installed.
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BrazosDog02
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8:30p, 11/12/23
AG
That's a no for me.

But if I had to have it, I'm going with something that uses standard breakers available at Home Depot. I'm slow to adopt new technology like this that handles one of the most crucial aspects of my home.

Do you have a Federal Pacific or what? I do all my own electrical stuff but it's going to take a lot more than some bells and whistles to justify a panel swap.

But again, if I just had to have it, I think I'd call the comlany tomorrow and see how quick you get a human being for tech support. What happens if something in it goes funky? Does the whole panel die? What if you want a generator? Can it accommodate that? Just some things to think about before pulling the trigger. 2018 isn't that long.
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DeLaHonta
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In reply to BrazosDog02 • 4:08a, 11/13/23
AG
BrazosDog02 said:
Do you have a Federal Pacific or what? I do all my own electrical stuff but it's going to take a lot more than some bells and whistles to justify a panel swap.
Yes, it's a Federal Pacific, so it's pretty much a mandatory swap.

My understanding is that, if the company goes under, the panel still functions as a dumb panel, which is comforting, but just means it's a very expensive dumb panel.

The panel can be integrated with solar, generators, batteries, etc very easily and that's actually one of their big selling points.

Good point about the customer serviceSpan was founded by a former Tesla Energy engineer, and Tesla is perhaps known even more for their horrendous customer service than their BEVs, so I'll have to read reviews to see if this former Tesla guy brought that corporate policy over.
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BrazosDog02
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In reply to DeLaHonta • 9:10a, 11/13/23
AG
Did you do a Google search for the panel and put "forum" in the search? See if anyone somewhere else has experience? I do not. I do like the idea of the smart panel though.
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TMoney2007
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11:17a, 11/13/23
AG
Honestly, I just really don't see the need for a panel that allows you to monitor and turn on and off every single breaker. You're not going to control lighting from the breaker panel. Do you really need the ability to turn the breaker for your microwave or the breaker for the outlets in the second bedroom on and off remotely? I don't see a use case for it at all unless you have backup power (a generator or solar with battery) and you need to do load management on a handful of heavy loads and even those can be done in other, better and cheaper ways.

Leviton may allow it (I don't know), but I don't think that Span will allow you to reset a breaker that has tripped remotely.

I really wouldn't worry about it right now. Schneider/SquareD has partnered with a company that makes retrofit smart breakers that fit in a standard panel and I'm sure other companies are working on it. There are add-on power monitoring systems that I would use before a cloud connected breaker panel. Other than that, HomeAssistant and smart switches are the way I will go for power monitoring and granular control.

Just pick a panel with the most possible spaces for breakers. The smart breakers typically take up an at least one additional space for 110V and sometimes 2 for 220V breakers. I wouldn't buy into something like Span. I would rather keep the breaker box dumb and add smart breakers in the future.
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to DeLaHonta • 7:06p, 11/13/23
AG
Several really good points made above.

Seems like quite a premium over a comparable panelboard. As a fault protection engineer in a previous life, I just feel a little wary reading the SPAN information. They've met all the right listings, but I'd want way more run-time from their product line. I think the first question I would ask myself is "what value are you trying to gain by going smart?"

If energy savings, I think you're better off looking at the big users in your house (HVAC, Refrigeration,etc.) and seeing if there are some changes you can make there. Most lighting and electronics have become a smaller and smaller portion of load in residential use. There are a lot of cheaper ways to manage all of those.

If monitoring - there are good options out there that are easier to retrofit.

DeLaHonta said:
The panel can be integrated with solar, generators, batteries, etc very easily and that's actually one of their big selling points.
If integration is the big selling point, I'm not convinced they provide any meaningful integration that separates it from a traditional panelboard. Every device you buy, ie solar panel, or a generator, or a battery bank, or car charger, will have their own system to manage their integration into the bigger system. I'm not sure that SPAN will be able to over-ride these individual systems.
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UnderoosAg
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 10:07p, 11/13/23
AG
BenTheGoodAg said:
Several really good points made above.

Seems like quite a premium over a comparable panelboard. As a fault protection engineer in a previous life, I just feel a little wary reading the SPAN information. They've met all the right listings, but I'd want way more run-time from their product line. I think the first question I would ask myself is "what value are you trying to gain by going smart?"

If energy savings, I think you're better off looking at the big users in your house (HVAC, Refrigeration,etc.) and seeing if there are some changes you can make there. Most lighting and electronics have become a smaller and smaller portion of load in residential use. There are a lot of cheaper ways to manage all of those.

If monitoring - there are good options out there that are easier to retrofit.

DeLaHonta said:
The panel can be integrated with solar, generators, batteries, etc very easily and that's actually one of their big selling points.
If integration is the big selling point, I'm not convinced they provide any meaningful integration that separates it from a traditional panelboard. Every device you buy, ie solar panel, or a generator, or a battery bank, or car charger, will have their own system to manage their integration into the bigger system. I'm not sure that SPAN will be able to over-ride these individual systems.


What he said
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BrazosDog02
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12:06a, 11/14/23
AG
It's kind of conspiracy theory but I don't like the idea that someone, somewhere, could say "oh, look at the grid load right now, why don't we have a lookie at some smart panels and shed some of the 30A+ loads".

The folks that signed up for that stuff on their thermostats found that out.
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The Pilot
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In reply to BrazosDog02 • 12:09a, 11/14/23
AG
BrazosDog02 said:
It's kind of conspiracy theory but I don't like the idea that someone, somewhere, could say "oh, look at the grid load right now, why don't we have a lookie at some smart panels and shed some of the 30A+ loads".

The folks that signed up for that stuff on their thermostats found that out.



You can override the thermostat control by the electrical provider.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to The Pilot • 8:09a, 11/14/23
The Pilot said:
BrazosDog02 said:
It's kind of conspiracy theory but I don't like the idea that someone, somewhere, could say "oh, look at the grid load right now, why don't we have a lookie at some smart panels and shed some of the 30A+ loads".

The folks that signed up for that stuff on their thermostats found that out.
You can override the thermostat control by the electrical provider.
ERCOT turned off all the lights in my home. But good news, I can override that. Thanks smart panel.
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TMoney2007
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 10:15a, 11/14/23
AG
BenTheGoodAg said:
Quote:
If integration is the big selling point, I'm not convinced they provide any meaningful integration that separates it from a traditional panelboard. Every device you buy, ie solar panel, or a generator, or a battery bank, or car charger, will have their own system to manage their integration into the bigger system. I'm not sure that SPAN will be able to over-ride these individual systems.
If you have those other systems, I just don't think that Span will be CRITICAL to integrating them. Some solar power companies have things that are integrated, like Enphase has inverters and batteries and EV chargers, etc. and they all communicate, but they don't need a Span panel to do it. If you want tight integration ,that would be the way to go. I don't think that Span makes their API public, so whatever integrations there are would have to come from Span themselves.

I don't think that it is mainstream or friendly to the average consumer at the moment, but we're approaching a point where different systems could be integrated fairly easily more or less without the manufacturers doing it up front. Until we reach that point, most people are just going to want to pick an ecosystem and stay with it. But none of it is going to hinge on a smart panelboard.

I'll admit that the Span panels look really interesting. As a nerd, all that information and control interested me, but I would rather spend that $4000 on an energy audit and some of the upgrades that they recommend. I think in a few more years home automation and energy management is going to become much more mainstream. There will definitely be retrofit systems for smart breakers as well so I don't think you will miss out on anything.
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agracer
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In reply to DeLaHonta • 11:21a, 11/14/23
AG
DeLaHonta said:
BrazosDog02 said:
Do you have a Federal Pacific or what? I do all my own electrical stuff but it's going to take a lot more than some bells and whistles to justify a panel swap.
Yes, it's a Federal Pacific, so it's pretty much a mandatory swap.

Why do you have to go to a SMART Panel?
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DeLaHonta
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In reply to agracer • 6:10p, 11/14/23
AG
I think you are misinterpreting what I said. I have to swap the Federal Pacific panel for a new panel of any type. I am interested in a smart panel, but don't have to do a smart panel.
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