After 10 years of being in this house we are finally deciding to finish some of our 1300sf basement. For now, just a bedroom and bathroom. I had the builder install rough-ins, so the location is relatively fixed.

Anyway, figure I'd chronicle it on here as I may have lots of questions and might be asking for suggestions/opinions.

First order of business was rearranging some of the underground plumbing. We want to swap the location of the toilet and shower. We like the toilet in the little 'nook', and this allows us to have a slightly longer shower with a bench.

I had two contractors come out for layout ideas and pricing, but, it was a bit selfish on my part, as I plan to act as GC and do what I can. They both came in right at $30k. I hope to cut that in third or more.

I do work for a general contractor in commercial construction, so I have lots of contacts in the subcontractor world that are always happy to help. I am in the office so don't have my hands in any of this type of work, but am pretty handy and obviously have a wealth of information a phone call away.

Because of my professional relationships, we don't really have a budget, as I know some of my subs are willing to do work for free, labor only, or highly discounted. I don't count on it, but as we go, I can keep track of it, and we can maybe spend more in other areas if we see fit.



Here is our overall basement plan;


and a close up of 'phase 1'



I got some concrete cutters to come out last Friday and cut/demo some spots in the slab.




It was a bit of an adventure figuring out exactly where the 2" shower drain was going, I figured for sure it connected to that vertical stack in the upper left, but nope, it tees into the 3" toilet drain. Also weird is that other tee, which goes to a vent seen in the first picture. I confirmed with inspector that it is fine if it tees off a 3" line instead, so I didn't have to reroute it.

Last night I cut the plumbing all up and began to redo it. I'll get a picture tonight. I scheduled an inspection tuesday, so that will force me to get it done!

My concern right now is the shower drain location.. I am paranoid I'm going to put it somewhere that causes problems when it comes time to finish the shower.. but maybe I'm worrying too much?? We plan to NOT do a shower pan, but tile instead, so I think that helps me.

Costs so far;
Slab cut/demo ($0), plumbing fittings and pea gravel, $150.

Location would help some of us
Google Earth pin even better

tgivaughn said:

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Location would help some of us
Google Earth pin even better

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hah! It didn't cross my mind because I'm an outlier here on Texags.. I'm in Parker, CO

What is the point of the small chase in the top right corner of the bedroom? If nothing, why not line up that wall with the foundation wall?

TexAg1987 said:

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What is the point of the small chase in the top right corner of the bedroom? If nothing, why not line up that wall with the foundation wall?

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It's because of a column (approx location shown here in red)
I could move that wall flush with foundation wall, but this is the simplest design that hides the column. The column is ~8" off that foundation wall (which is covered in bulky insulation), so by the time you offset it from the insulation and frame it, we're only losing 3-4".

The column has been our nemsis throughout this design. I really wish I could move it even just 1-2' to the left along the beam its supporting.

I could move the bedroom and bathroom wall to the right that handful of inches to maximize space, and just box in the column (it pretty much lies on the bathroom side of that left/right wall)

I'll make the decision when I'm chalking it all out.

Is the bedroom going to be used often or just on occasion? In our basement bedroom we had a bed that was rarely used and I just put in a Murphy bed and it's a much more usable space now.

Also, it looks like you have a window, make sure it's big enough opening to count as an egress window so you can list that bedroom. The window well that was where our bedroom went was apparently not big enough and had to get that expanded.

Assuming you have a sump pump? Make sure you have access to it when the real floor goes down. Our contractors at first just carpeted right over ours and we made them come out and fix it. When doing framing make sure you get cabinet access for gas and water access, another thing our guys were just going to drywall over...

If the BR window sill is within 44" of floor, then IRC says it's OK last time I looked

If you don't already own a Murphy bed or SICO (much bettter) then shop the new 7in mattress quenn sfo beds instead. At least you have a sitting piece when bed is vacant and just as hard on your back converting.

Old days solution: Day bed that sits like a sofa, then toss the bolsters/pillows now me a bed ,,, usually only a Twin/Full size

BQ2001 said:

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Is the bedroom going to be used often or just on occasion? In our basement bedroom we had a bed that was rarely used and I just put in a Murphy bed and it's a much more usable space now.

Also, it looks like you have a window, make sure it's big enough opening to count as an egress window so you can list that bedroom. The window well that was where our bedroom went was apparently not big enough and had to get that expanded.

Assuming you have a sump pump? Make sure you have access to it when the real floor goes down. Our contractors at first just carpeted right over ours and we made them come out and fix it. When doing framing make sure you get cabinet access for gas and water access, another thing our guys were just going to drywall over...

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thanks for thinking out loud this is exactly what I would hope would happen to those interested or who already been here. It's def an advantage we are missing out on by not hiring a GC who has done a lot of this.
The bedroom will rarely be used. Parents and siblings on holidays and such. We've thought about a Murphy bed. Our neighbor has one in their basement and it's perfect for this.

We are garden level and I climb out the window all the time to the backyard. No issues there. There is no window well, the bottom of window is 6" above outside grade.
Sump pump is bottom left of overall basement layout pic. Near water heater and mechanical, so all good there. We will close it in with big double doors at some point, maybe while I'm doing this. For now we have a curtain on a pvc rod to hide it all.

I do have a spigot in top left corner, So I need to have an access hatch for that, and will add a valve as well for easy replacement.

You're going to want an outlet in the bathroom...

And the Texan in me says you're missing a ceiling fan! But I've noticed they aren't common in other places really...

Also, on the bathroom layout, consider a more custom vanity, Shift the sink to the left and put in a counter to ceiling cabinet (15-18" depth) in the corner for towels, etc. Or at least think about that kind of storage in the bathroom.

For the shower drain, don't worry too much if you're doing a custom sloped mud bed. Try to center it on the width from wall to door, but honestly not as big a deal lengthwise as long as its close to centered (centered from bench to wall as you have it drawn), not wall to wall). Even if you're off a bit, the mud bed will create your tile line straight around the edge with the sloping coming to the drain.

This is actually a layout of one of the GCs that priced it for me, I'm kind of using his for visual, since the one I made still had toilet/shower switched. Not sure why he didn't show a plug in bathroom, but there will def. be one, and we were thinking of putting some cabinets above the toilet for our linen storage.

he actually had them drawn in outside the bathroom, to the left of the bathroom door if your facing them. But that is blocking our mechanical room if we decide to not put double doors in front of mechanical, we might do a kitchenette right there. So I want to leave that option open.

We were just gonna plop a 4'-5' off the shelf single sink vanity from costco or overstock in there.

I will never again have a cabinet above the toilet. I've hit my head too many times cleaning the toilet to ever do that again.

hah, touche.

But.. first, I ain't cleaning it, and second, this toilet will get used maybe 10 days a year.

What is the width where the sink/vanity is? I know this is not a final design, but as one poster mentioned , what is being shown is not efficient use of space since there is dead space to right and left of sink. Slide the vanity over to the wall and add a 12" wide linen cabinet that goes from floor to 8' or so. That will be a much cleaner way of gaining additional storage than one of those things that straddles toilets. Or you can just have a wider vanity with the sink offset so you pick up more usable vanity counter space for hair dryers, straighteners, dop kits, etc. Then do a "head knocker" cabinet over the toilet that comes down from ceiling.

My thoughts. Out of my options, I would go for the ladder.

My only opinions for a basement finish out would be non-absorbent flooring, PVC base boards, and moisture resistant gyp.

Looks like a fun project to add some valuable space.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

akaggie05 said:

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Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

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I thought that by using a shower pan, it's a fixed size (example 36x36) with a fixed hole location, as opposed to tiling you do whatever you want and put drain where you want.

Is this not accurate?

62strat said:

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akaggie05 said:

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Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

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I thought that by using a shower pan, it's a fixed size (example 36x36) with a fixed hole location, as opposed to tiling you do whatever you want and put drain where you want.

Is this not accurate?

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You/tile guy cam build the shower pan that is the best fit and size for your space. Here, You are talking about the pre fabricated shower pans.

MS08 said:

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62strat said:

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akaggie05 said:

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Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

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I thought that by using a shower pan, it's a fixed size (example 36x36) with a fixed hole location, as opposed to tiling you do whatever you want and put drain where you want.

Is this not accurate?

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You/tile guy cam build the shower pan that is the best fit and size for your space. Here, You are talking about the pre fabricated shower pans.

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correct, sorry maybe maybe terminology isn't right. Pan vs tile. The other two showers in our house are whirlpool pans, no tile floor.

62strat said:

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MS08 said:

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62strat said:

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akaggie05 said:

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Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

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I thought that by using a shower pan, it's a fixed size (example 36x36) with a fixed hole location, as opposed to tiling you do whatever you want and put drain where you want.

Is this not accurate?

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You/tile guy cam build the shower pan that is the best fit and size for your space. Here, You are talking about the pre fabricated shower pans.

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correct, sorry maybe maybe terminology isn't right. Pan vs tile. The other two showers in our house are whirlpool pans, no tile floor.

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All showers have a pan. You can have a pre-fab finished surface pan, you can get tile ready pre-sloped pans (like Kerdi pans) or you can do a standard mud pan (different ways of water proofing) and tile it.

Caliber said:

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62strat said:

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MS08 said:

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62strat said:

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akaggie05 said:

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Not sure I understand what you mean by "no shower pan but tile instead"...?

---

I thought that by using a shower pan, it's a fixed size (example 36x36) with a fixed hole location, as opposed to tiling you do whatever you want and put drain where you want.

Is this not accurate?

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You/tile guy cam build the shower pan that is the best fit and size for your space. Here, You are talking about the pre fabricated shower pans.

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correct, sorry maybe maybe terminology isn't right. Pan vs tile. The other two showers in our house are whirlpool pans, no tile floor.

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All showers have a pan. You can have a pre-fab finished surface pan, you can get tile ready pre-sloped pans (like Kerdi pans) or you can do a standard mud pan (different ways of water proofing) and tile it.

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Right.. but when tiling, you are free to do whatever size floor and drain location you want right? No restrictions (other than visual annoyance if something is off center).. but this is not true with a prefab whirlpool pan.

I thought this would have been clear when I said tile vs pan in the context of talking about drain location being precise, but maybe not. I just talked to my floor/tile guy, he said shoot for center door to opposite of door, but shower head to opposite, you can do front, center, whatever really.

It was clear to anyone who knew what you were talking about.

Shower pans are usually the prefab jobbers, mud pans are usually grout bases or kerdi style systems.

Just wanted to make sure nobody was headed down a path to build a shower with no waterproofing membrane. I've encountered it way too much.

so I'm ready to pour the concrete back. It's such a small job, I don't know if I want to bother my flatworkers and my concrete vendor for this (rather save it for a large job if I need it!)

It's ~27sf, and mostly 4", so we're talking 1/3 of cy, which is doable by bags I would think.

I've never touched concrete.. is this an easy DIY job? Not sure where I would mix it, or what in.
I assume I should dowel this at 12" oc?

I would just use high strength bags and they come in 50lbs so a little easier to maneuver.

I might have got my pipe a little lower there because the top part of the pipe is going into where the concrete would be poured. At least the way this picture looks.

Add a built-in bookshelf where the chase is?

I like to use Maximizer for those type of applications. It's 5kpsi as well but finishes better than most of the Quikrete products.

I'd get a little sand on top of that pipe, even if it means sacrificing some slab depth. Get some stego or your favorite brand of garbage bag in there and seal it to the adjacent barrier. Grab some extra bar from one of your jobs, drill and dowel, epoxy if you want to go above and beyond. Should only be 8-9 bags of the Maximizer, but I'd still spend the $40 to rent a small electric mixer. Hang some painters plastic, get a mask, and mix and pour right there.

Agree about putting some sort of sub grade material on top of pipe and especially drilling and doweling in.

I may try and lower that toilet run a bit. Right now it's exactly at 2" above the downstream connection 8' away, so right at 1/4" per ft.
It passed inspection, so now I can change it I suppose and bury it to never be seen again. From what I can measure, it's about 1/4" to 1/2" above the bottom of the slab.

I do plan to dowel, I just gotta find a job we're doing right now with some on site. Our typical slab has a few thousand of them, so no one will notice if a few dozen disappear!

If it were me, I would square this cut off more and give you more surface area when you re-pour. This triangle point will be difficult to get the strength you need when you RE-pour. Have a feeling it will crack here cause there is not enough for concrete to bond too.

Yeh that's a good point… wish I was thinking ahead to the repour when they were cutting; I was just focusing on finding the tee/wye of these two runs.

I have concrete guys coming Friday now (made a call or two not long ago) so I don't know if it's feasible really at this point. I'll see what my concrete guys say and go from there.

Should be easy enough for them to saw cut with concrete saw. Under 5 minute pre-pour task.

It's all going to be under tile. It's not ideal, but I wouldn't be worried about it.

And no need for legit smooth dowels here, just getting some bar into the existing slab is enough.

MS08 said:

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Should be easy enough for them to saw cut with concrete saw. Under 5 minute pre-pour task.

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Well my concrete guys aren't the same guys as my concrete demo guys hah. Actually the guys coming aren't even my concrete guys, they are my tilt up guys, who also form and pour our foundations.

My demo guys have a huge truck, a generator, 50' of hoses, the saw, etc etc.. It would take over an hour to do that, I'd hate to ask him to come back out.


edit.. I reached out to him, surely they have an electric saw to do a smaller job.. awaiting his reply. I think I do want to cut it out to about 12-15" square. It's 35 deg angle now..

I am sure they can find a gas powered Stihl concrete saw. All concrete guys have them - for their saw cut joints, etc.

They have one or cane find one, or you can rent one from Home Depot for $80.00.