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Another question for 8x8 garden shed I'm building

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91_Aggie
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12:45p, 4/18/20
AG
So, found a plan on line that seems good enough.
However, for an 8'x8' shed on a concrete foundation, I'm thinking that the "studs" every 16" is a little overkill for structural stability.

My thinking (which may be way off is I could reduce the number of studs on this by some (to save money and effort). But I'm computer science and not civil engineering

Anyone got practical experience/suggestion.

32" might be too much by I figure I could space these out to remove at least 2 of the two studs

Here's a pic of the shed and number of studs.


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Gary79Ag
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1:01p, 4/18/20
AG
If you went with 24" OC, you could reduce down from 7 studs to 5 studs...however, I wouldn't go any more than 24" OC.
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91_Aggie
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1:03p, 4/18/20
AG
And what's the difference between Purple 2x4 studs and non purple?

Purple about $2.60 each while non-purple about $3.41

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Gary79Ag
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 1:28p, 4/18/20
AG
91_Aggie said:
And what's the difference between Purple 2x4 studs and non purple?

Purple about $2.60 each while non-purple about $3.41

The purple studs are pre-cut to distinguish them from standard 8' studs...

Quote:
They are colored because they are "pre-cut" studs and are easily seen on jobsites so they aren't mistaken for unmitered standard length lumber. These are measured and mitered (squared) at the sawmill and sold for various height interior walls. Makes building walls much quicker during framing. 92 5/8" for 8' walls, 104 5/8" for 9' walls etc...
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Picard
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1:29p, 4/18/20
AG
My only advice is to double the size of that shed

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jaggiemaggie
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In reply to Picard • 2:15p, 4/18/20
AG
Picard said:
My only advice is to double the size of that shed

I built a 10x12 a few years back... would have made it at least a 16x 20....
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toolshed
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4:04p, 4/18/20
AG
Personally, I would stick with the 16" spacing. It will make your walls more rigid, which depending on your wall sheathing, would be more advantageous. As stated above, going to 24" saves less than 10 studs, or approximately 30-40 bucks. Not a great cost savings and not worth skipping the added structure for so little savings.

Purple studs are Temple studs, typically. They are single piece precut studs to an exact length (so that the overall height of the wall with a single bottom and double top plate is the round number, 8,9,10' etc.). In my opinion, they are more likely to warp since they are a single piece of wood, typically pine.

Non purple can be a number of different studs. There are SPF studs which are a Canadian spruce pine or fir material. This material is lighter weight, less knots and smaller in size, and generally more stable and less apt to warp. You can get spf in precut or full length material. You can also get yellow pine in full length that's not purple. Typically full length lumber has more variation in length, so you have to trim it to the exact size you want.
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91_Aggie
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5:00p, 4/18/20
AG
Yeah, would like to make it bigger but other things in the yard and sprinkler system layout have imposed some constraints on the size. 8x8 worked well enough for me for 22 years... We try to not to hoard stuff where we'd need extra storage... it's for Mower, weedeater, a couple of bikes, blower, and fertilizer spreader. and that will still leave plenty of room for my needs.

in regards to the Stud distances, I had an 8x8 shed that I had to tear down due to my ignorance 22 years ago (put the wooden floor kit directly on the ground... not even gravel... so dumb). It was a crappy kit from lowes that had fewer studs than 24" apart and was damned sturdy.. if the bottom hadn't rotten out I wouldn't be building this one.
I may still go with 16" since it may only be about $50 difference.
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maddiedou
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6:34p, 4/18/20
AG
16 inch. Not a question for stablility

If in cs. Bryan i will come by and look with you and show you how and stuff. No charge
maddiedou
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JP76
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6:55p, 4/18/20
What is the exterior siding going to be ?


Temple purple are fine for your application.
70 years ago walls used to be framed on 24 oc, then 19.2 and now 16. I would stick with 16 oc instead of trying to cut corners on the framing
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91_Aggie
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In reply to JP76 • 8:08p, 4/18/20
AG
JP76 said:
What is the exterior siding going to be ?


Temple purple are fine for your application.
70 years ago walls used to be framed on 24 oc, then 19.2 and now 16. I would stick with 16 oc instead of trying to cut corners on the framing

going to use t1-11 for the siding.


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91_Aggie
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In reply to maddiedou • 8:29p, 4/18/20
AG
maddiedou said:
16 inch. Not a question for stablility

If in cs. Bryan i will come by and look with you and show you how and stuff. No charge
Thanks for the offer (I am in CS)
I think I'll be fine... just wanted to see what general consensus was on 16" studs.... looks like I should just do the 16" and be safe.. no point saving $50 for something I want to last "forever".

And was curious about the Purple 2x4s at lowes... Google couldn't even give me a solid answer.

I still have to mix and pour 50 80# bags of concrete (waiting for break in the rain) and let it cure before I get to the point of framing. Will be happy once I get foundation down.


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Touchscreen
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 10:46p, 4/18/20
AG
91_Aggie said:
maddiedou said:
16 inch. Not a question for stablility

If in cs. Bryan i will come by and look with you and show you how and stuff. No charge
Thanks for the offer (I am in CS)
I think I'll be fine... just wanted to see what general consensus was on 16" studs.... looks like I should just do the 16" and be safe.. no point saving $50 for something I want to last "forever".

And was curious about the Purple 2x4s at lowes... Google couldn't even give me a solid answer.

I still have to mix and pour 50 80# bags of concrete (waiting for break in the rain) and let it cure before I get to the point of framing. Will be happy once I get foundation down.


Make sure you have plenty of help for pouring that amount of concrete. Ask me how I know.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 12:19a, 4/19/20
AG
Why not just get a 1 yard concrete delivery? You're mixing like what, 25 cubic feet?
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JP76
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 5:36a, 4/19/20
91_Aggie said:
JP76 said:
What is the exterior siding going to be ?


Temple purple are fine for your application.
70 years ago walls used to be framed on 24 oc, then 19.2 and now 16. I would stick with 16 oc instead of trying to cut corners on the framing

going to use t 1-11 for the siding.





For true wood t 1-11 you definitely want 16 inch oc as it has a tendency to buckle and warp from outside elements.

I would suggest looking into the Smart siding version of t 1-11. It will be more durable over time and already comes pre primed.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/SmartSide-38-Series-Primed-Engineered-Panel-Siding-Common-0-315-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-Actual-0-315-in-x-48-563-in-x-95-875-in/3058153


Also if you are in a neighborhood with an HOA, check to make sure what the restrictions are on storage buildings regarding wall height, total height, etc as well make sure you are not pouring that slab outside of side and back set back lines and inside of city/utility easements
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In reply to JP76 • 9:48a, 4/19/20
91_Aggie
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 5:42p, 4/19/20
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
Why not just get a 1 yard concrete delivery? You're mixing like what, 25 cubic feet?
Not sure they could get it to my backyard. And money saving is important here.

I suppose I could ask. but they would have to run something from street to my backyard to get it there.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to JP76 • 5:44p, 4/19/20
AG
JP76 said:
91_Aggie said:
JP76 said:
What is the exterior siding going to be ?


Temple purple are fine for your application.
70 years ago walls used to be framed on 24 oc, then 19.2 and now 16. I would stick with 16 oc instead of trying to cut corners on the framing

going to use t 1-11 for the siding.





For true wood t 1-11 you definitely want 16 inch oc as it has a tendency to buckle and warp from outside elements.

I would suggest looking into the Smart siding version of t 1-11. It will be more durable over time and already comes pre primed.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/SmartSide-38-Series-Primed-Engineered-Panel-Siding-Common-0-315-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-Actual-0-315-in-x-48-563-in-x-95-875-in/3058153


Hmm. didn't know about this and actually is cheaper than t1-11 at my lowes... it's not in stock at my lowes so I'd have to order it, but I've got time. Will research this more... THANKS!
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will.mcg
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 6:40a, 4/20/20
AG
Why not put the shed on treated 4x4 skids & those in some concrete blocks? That would save a lot of money as well as labor.

Yes you would coordinate with the concrete company to use wheel narrows or spend more money on a pump truck to pump the concrete over your house into the backyard. You Probably are not using enough concrete for a pump truck.
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Splitag
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In reply to Picard • 7:43a, 4/20/20
AG
Picard said:
My only advice is to double the size of that shed

This! I built an 8"x12" a few years ago and I remember my Dad saying, "whatever size you are planning I'd double it if I were you." With the space to have done it, I wish I would have listened to my old man.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to will.mcg • 8:26a, 4/20/20
AG
will.mcg said:
Why not put the shed on treated 4x4 skids & those in some concrete blocks? That would save a lot of money as well as labor.

Yes you would coordinate with the concrete company to use wheel narrows or spend more money on a pump truck to pump the concrete over your house into the backyard. You Probably are not using enough concrete for a pump truck.
I just want a solid concrete slab for the floor.
I know its more work and overkill, but I've been working from home and just want to do something I've never done before. Actually having fun with this (I may not be saying this once I start the actual concrete mixing and pouring )

Thanks for all the advice. I wanted a bigger shed as well... but didn't want to create a bigger project by having to move the sprinkler system.. but figured I'd get into a similar process as this:





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8:43a, 4/20/20
91_Aggie
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12:38p, 4/20/20
AG
Renting a mixer already in the plans.

And I will need the concrete bags in backyard so i will still have to lug then back there if they drop pallet in my driveway. Lowes is literally 1.5 miles from house so i can get all 50 bags in 3 trips.

I am a patient man in terms of the concrete delivery and moving it.

The concrete mixing and dumping is the one thing I am least confident about, but some of the Youtube videos i have watched had some real idiots doing it themselves so i know i can do better than them and their's did not turn out bad.
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91_Aggie
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12:58p, 4/20/20
AG
But here's a question about storing Quikrete.

Supposed to rain on Wednesday, but I'd like to start getting the concrete now.
I would hate to buy it all now, unpack it in my garage, then have to move it all to backyard Thursday morning.

Would rather get it now, unload from truck and move to backyard now.

If I got a a roll of plastic sheeting and made sure I sealed it very well around the stacks on my back yard, would that be good enough to prevent it from becoming a block of concrete the bags if it we had a good thunderstorm on Wednesday?

I see the pallets of quikrete sitting outside at Lowes so I would think you'd need a long time and lot of moisture before it would become solid.

But would hate to destroy 50 bags concrete by being dumb.

TIA.
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Builder93
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2:49p, 4/20/20
AG
If you haven't done concrete like this before, I hope you've been working out because you are going to be sore. Once you've started you have to finish, also. If you are cheaping out on the studs, I'm guessing you are going to get real cheap on the form boards. Don't. Spend time preparing your base and form work. It will make the pouring part much easier. Support the form boards consistently with stakes and don't forget the rebar. #3 bars, 16" oc will be fine. 12" oc even better. Level your form boards all the way around and don't think that you will fix afterward if they are a little off.

You can store the concrete for a while if it is tarped. Just keep it off the ground and cover it completely.
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GrimesCoAg95
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4:31p, 4/20/20
AG
Put plastic under the rebar. It will provide a moisture barrier for the building and keep the ground from pulling the water out of your mix. Also, get help on concrete day. Mixing 50 bags is a ton of work. Well, actually it is 2 tons of work. If the slab gets ahead of you, you will not catch up. Having someone else just mix the bags for you will help.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Builder93 • 5:02p, 4/20/20
AG
Builder93 said:
If you haven't done concrete like this before, I hope you've been working out because you are going to be sore. Once you've started you have to finish, also. If you are cheaping out on the studs, I'm guessing you are going to get real cheap on the form boards. Don't. Spend time preparing your base and form work. It will make the pouring part much easier. Support the form boards consistently with stakes and don't forget the rebar. #3 bars, 16" oc will be fine. 12" oc even better. Level your form boards all the way around and don't think that you will fix afterward if they are a little off.

You can store the concrete for a while if it is tarped. Just keep it off the ground and cover it completely.


Thanks for advice.
The form boards are solid and staked solid. I probably overdid this part. And I spent a ton of time on the base as well with road base on the very bottom with 3/8" limestone above that. I am prettt sure I will have the most over-engineered foundation for a 8x8 shed ever

I have mesh for the center and rebar around the edges. Had several people tell me for 8x8 shed i didnt even need rebar or mesh but I figured I'd do it right.

And I was not trying to cheap out on the studs. Just want to see if i really needed that many for a backyard shed that would be on a concrete foundation. Felt like overkill to me based on the previous shed that was installed for 22 years and never had issue with stabilty for walls. I got my answer that I should do 16" so I am going with that advice.

And yeah. I am concerned i am biting off more than i can chew with the concrete, but I have run marathons and I can keep going when it gets tough and i am tired. But we will see.
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91_Aggie
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5:09p, 4/20/20
AG
Here's a pic so you can all tell me what I did or am doing wrong.

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Gary79Ag
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5:48p, 4/20/20
AG
Can't really tell by the pic...curious as to how thick the concrete will be in the middle of the slab, cause it looks like you've built it up quite a bit?

As noted above, is it level across the top in all directions?

What do you plan to do for your bottom plate anchor system?
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Builder93
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 5:57p, 4/20/20
AG
91_Aggie said:
Here's a pic so you can all tell me what I did or am doing wrong.

Looks good. I'm not a huge fan of mesh but it'll do for a shed. Plastic isn't super necessary since you have the limestone down, but do make sure you use the right water ratio indicated on the bag you might add a little for the water you will lose into the ground. You are going to have a hard time leveling it since you are doing bags. You just won't move fast enough to screed it off evenly unless you have some help. I would place it full depth starting in one corner and screed across the form boards as you go to get it level.
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GrimesCoAg95
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6:05p, 4/20/20
AG
You can also spray some water on the base before you add in the concrete. The real concern for you is the base pulling too much water out of the mix. I also agree that you should start in one corner and screed as you go.

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91_Aggie
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In reply to Gary79Ag • 6:35p, 4/20/20
AG
Gary79Ag said:
Can't really tell by the pic...curious as to how thick the concrete will be in the middle of the slab, cause it looks like you've built it up quite a bit?

As noted above, is it level across the top in all directions?

What do you plan to do for your bottom plate anchor system?


Well i found several sources saying 3" depth in the middle was good, with 8" depth on the outer perimeter. Its a little more than 3" deep in the middle.though

And yes, it is perfectly level across the top. Have a weird slope in the yard and the camera angle makes it look like it is not level but i spent a crap-ton of time/effort making sure it is level. Almost OCD about it.

I have 8" long, 1/2" anchor bolts ready for dipping in to the concrete. Already have the locations marked off on the form boards where each will go after double and triple checking the shed plans. They will be in perfect position. Even made a little jig made o get the distance inwards from the edge of slab exactly correct. Once done they should line exactly center on the 2x4 base plate. OCD levels of verifying all that.

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91_Aggie
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In reply to GrimesCoAg95 • 6:36p, 4/20/20
AG
GrimesCoAg95 said:
You can also spray some water on the base before you add in the concrete. The real concern for you is the base pulling too much water out of the mix. I also agree that you should start in one corner and screed as you go.



Yes this is my plan. I have done all the reading and research, but nice to get real world experience/advice.
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Builder93
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 6:58p, 4/20/20
AG
91_Aggie said:
Gary79Ag said:
Can't really tell by the pic...curious as to how thick the concrete will be in the middle of the slab, cause it looks like you've built it up quite a bit?

As noted above, is it level across the top in all directions?

What do you plan to do for your bottom plate anchor system?


Well i found several sources saying 3" depth in the middle was good, with 8" depth on the outer perimeter. Its a little more than 3" deep in the middle.though

And yes, it is perfectly level across the top. Have a weird slope in the yard and the camera angle makes it look like it is not level but i spent a crap-ton of time/effort making sure it is level. Almost OCD about it.

I have 8" long, 1/2" anchor bolts ready for dipping in to the concrete. Already have the locations marked off on the form boards where each will go after double and triple checking the shed plans. They will be in perfect position. Even made a little jig made o get the distance inwards from the edge of slab exactly correct. Once done they should line exactly center on the 2x4 base plate. OCD levels of verifying all that.

I'm impressed. Most people underestimate / underprepare.

A little unsolicited advice: I don't like dutch hips for roofs on sheds especially. You lose a lot of valuable hanging space. I would do a shed roof, gable, or hip. Gives you more wall for shelves, etc.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Builder93 • 7:35p, 4/20/20
AG
Builder93 said:

I'm impressed. Most people underestimate / underprepare.

A little unsolicited advice: I don't like dutch hips for roofs on sheds especially. You lose a lot of valuable hanging space. I would do a shed roof, gable, or hip. Gives you more wall for shelves, etc.

So, this shed is going to be 8-feet high before the "gambrels" start (walls will be 8 feet tall), so If put in a ceiling it would be a standard 8-feet high wall. It seems like I will still have plenty of room for hanging stuff (And I'm 6'3" so I can reach stuff that is hung way up high), plus the plans have option for putting in a "loft" with this and I like the idea of storing crap my wife doesn't want to throw away but will NEVER use up there.

Looking at the Shed roof and gable, it seems like I'd actually have less space for hanging stuff from ceiling.

And I like the way it looks better than Shed, hip, or gable.

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