I originally thought my issues were with the fridge, but more and more think its an electrical issue.

I recently purchased a Samsung (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Samsung-33-in-W-17-5-cu-ft-French-Door-Refrigerator-in-Stainless-Steel-and-Counter-Depth-RF18HFENBSR-2/302577277) refrigerator, it was delivered and installed this past Saturday, worked perfectly all day. Woke up sunday and the power was out on the fridge. It didnt trip the breaker but it did trip/turn off the GFI the line is connected to before it goes to the breaker.

My house was made in 1955 and there has been a couple contractors/handymen lived in befoer me and they do so much odd stuff. I have multiple GFI's in my kitchen, some before just one appliance. In regards to the refrigerator, the power line goes from breaker to GFI #1. From #1 there is two lines, one to another GFI #2 which goes onto the microwave, and a second line to an outlet (fridge) and second outlet on other side of wall.

My old fridge worked just fine for years on the outlet. Now, when I plug my fridge into the outlet, it turns on just the lights but not the compressor. It will make a sound that is a fridges equivalent to trying to start your car with a dead battery a couple times then stop. After 5 - 10 minutes of just the lights being on, the GFI (i'm assuming) trips and everything on tied to this GFI #1 shuts off. Ive tried resetting the GFI #1 but get the same results... turns on for a couple minutes then everything shuts down.

Now if I plug my fridge into GFI #2 (with an extension cord) the fridge will turn on like with it into the outlet, but this time after 5 - 10 minutes the compressor will turn on and stay on.

I tried tightening everything on the outlet but afterwards when I turned the power back on, it popped and burnt the outlet a bit. I think the heavy gauge wire got nicked when I was screwing it back to the wall. I have since replaced the outlet iwth a new one and it didnt fix it. There wasnt a ground wire on the outlet so my father added the green wire to the outlet in last pic, but that didnt fix it either.

Any clue whats going on? I'm trying to figure it out before calling Samsung and telling them they gave me a lemon.

Second pic shows the outlet ground screw (green) has arched to the box at some point. Not sure if that was from you removing the box or previous work.

Third pic appears to show some brown on the white wire down near where it almost meets with the black wire. Not sure if I am just seeing something/ shadow, or not or if you have a cut or nicked wire and a short in the box that is enough to be tripping the GFCI. I would pull the outlet after shutting off the power to it and inspect the wires well for any damage. I would tighten the ground screw so it's not close to the metal box, them wrap electrical tape around the outlet, covering all the screws so that non of them can contact the box around it, or another wire.

Some fridges, especially newer ones don't like GFCI outlets, so if you can isolate the power from the GFCI and have a non protected outlet, I would try that as well. It doesn't answer why it works on the other. The additional draw in current when the compressor kicks on may be more than the old fridge, provoking the short. I could be wrong, I am not an electrician.

I would be looking for a short if it were me, based on what I see in the pictures.

Before you call Samsung to say they sold you a lemon, plug the fridge into a non-GFCI outlet and see if the fridge works and therefore isolate the issue as being either fridge related or electrical related. If there are no non-GFCI outlets within reach, either move the fridge to the nearest non-GFCi outlet and plug it in or use an extension cord. This should allow you to determine if it's a fridge lemon issue or there is an electrical issue with your outlets.

As noted by the prior poster, GFCIs and fridges don't play well together so this most likley is your main issue and the above test will help to confirm my suspicion.

Not sure how your outlets are wired as an odd thing I'm seeing are the 2 red wires at the base of the outlet box secured to the box via the screw that secures the cable clamp to the box. Maybe that's a grounding application, but it's not something I've ever seen. UnderoosAg, I'm sure you're monitoring so please chime in here...

My guess would be a bad GFCI. Just dealt with a somewhat similar situation. New GFCI cleaned it up.

Agree with the above. I'd also shorten the stripped portion on those black wires. You don't want extra stripped wire hanging out inside the box.

Code does not require a GFCI for refrigerators. A lot of new refrigerators don't like GFCIs.

Ag In Texas said:

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Code does not require a GFCI for refrigerators. A lot of new refrigerators don't like GFCIs.

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Depends on the city. Some now require every outlet in the room of a wet area to be GFCI protected.

JP76 said:

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Ag In Texas said:

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Code does not require a GFCI for refrigerators. A lot of new refrigerators don't like GFCIs.

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Depends on the city. Some now require every outlet in the room of a wet area to be GFCI protected.

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Good to know. I was referring to the NEC.

Thanks for all the info guys! I will definitely try isolating it again when I get home. Once again with garage and once with living room.

When I first started trying to figure things out on this, I did run a cord from my garage to the fridge to isolate it, and got same result (lights on then compressor kicks on after a few minutes). It does seem to run best when it is on GFI #2 (in sequence with #1).

I will try to get some clearer pictures of the wiring, but as its the thicker gauge and theres more wire then normal, its kinda tough. I will inspect, shorten and make sure they are in good shape when I reconnect it.

For the green ground screw, it arched when was trying to figure things out, wasnt something from prior use. I took the outlet out, inspected it and tightened connections. It must have gotten knicked or touched box when I reconnected. When I went to turn breaker back on, it wouldnt let me fully turn it on, it would go back to the middle. I finally got it to turn on, then the GFI and everything on that line turned off. when I went to hit the reset button on GFI, thats when it sparked/arched. Outlet has now ben replaced with new one since the arch.

For GFI #1 that we think might be bad, I has been replaced in past 2 years as it has gone bad before. Only thing is it is a son of a ***** to replace, took me over an hour in a very awkward position. Its in a corner in kitchen (on backsplash area), under the cabinets and the wires are far too short. Once again, there were multiple lines of this heavy gauge wire... the previous owners left me some bad surprises

What if I replaced GFI #1 with a standard outlet? This could solve the issue with the fridges not liking GFIs and still leaving GFI #2 on the line

Also, is it normal for a fridge to take a while for the compressor to kick on after being plugged in?

Fridges and freezers tend to have current leakage in the compressor motor windings. Mostly harmless but a GFCI can see it and trip.

When the fridge quit the first time, a GFCI button someplace popped?

The GFCI isn't smart enough to know what's plugged into it. It only watches the current out and current back in waiting for an imbalance to trip.

If you had power to the lights, you should have power to the compressor. I've had at least a chest freezer that made dead battery start noises. The compressor shut off when I unplugged it. When I plugged in back in, click click click. I figured it was the compressor unable to start against the head of the refrigerant. Don't think they have starter capacitors like a condensing unit does. I let the freezer sit for a while, it clicked a few more times and finally ran with no problems.

If I had to guess, the GFCI finally saw enough leakage current to trip (the first time). The clicking was the compressor trying to restart. Pushing against a high head like that is going to produce essentially a locked rotor current, the inrush needed to start a motor. Max current = max leakage = GFCI tripping. Lather rinse repeat. It's also entirely likely the GFCI was going or is now bad.

The fubar'd wiring makes it even more fun. Looking on my phone you have metal outlet boxes, right? Ground screw couldn't have arced to the box... or at least it shouldn't unless you have bigger problems. The ground screw is attached to the strap or yoke of the receptacle. The whole point is to provide a connection point for grounding the yoke. That same yoke, presumably, is attached to the metal box with metal screws, making them all electrically continuous. It's not going to arc to itself, and was probably a nicked wire.

The added green wire essentially did the same thing as the metal screws to metal box, although unless the box is grounded it did not add anything. GFCIs don't need a ground to work. The circuit doesn't either for that matter. But I am also curious about the red wire bonded to the box. Old installations had a bad habit of "grounding thru the neutral". Think of the old 3-prong dryer cords where the neutral and ground get jumpered together. Tends to cause stray currents.

Breakers have to be flipped to off to reset before you can turn back on. Might be why it stayed in the middle.

If it were me, I'd just move.

UnderoosAg said:

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If it were me, I'd just move.

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It is in the plans in the next year, this was an investment house and value has gone up significantly since I bought it 4 yrs ago. I was planning on slowly remodeling it and moving withing 2 years, but I got comfortable here and had different plans for life come up.

I tried isolating it elsewhere and the compressor does come on after a few minutes. What is crazy is it actually currently working in the standard outlet that is on the wall (in laundry room) behind the the outlet the fridge is supposed to go to. I will get a picture of this outlet a little later after my Home Depot run, I do believe this has a red wire that connects to the fridge outlet and that these two are connected and then go to GFI #1.

Pics I took this evening after work:

GFI #1 & 2 in Kitchen. Fridge works when plugged into #2.


Closer up of fridge outlet:




I stripped back the wires as they had multiple small nicks, and added tape to the outlet.


The culprit (most likely) GFI #1. Replaced in the past 2 years, but does have 3 wires stemming off of it, I believe.

Thanks for all the info!

It does have a metal box, I think it arced from the nicked black wire.

Are the wires from GFCI #1 coming off the line terminals or load terminals?

That is a very good question. I don't know the answer now but will check when I get home. Will be tough though as I don't know which of the wires goes to the fridge.

While I'm at Home Depot, do you think upgrading the GFCI to 20 amp will help? Or not necessary?

Ag In Texas said:

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JP76 said:

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Ag In Texas said:

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Code does not require a GFCI for refrigerators. A lot of new refrigerators don't like GFCIs.

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Depends on the city. Some now require every outlet in the room of a wet area to be GFCI protected.

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Good to know. I was referring to the NEC.

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Depends if your fridge is within x feet of a sink.

The top black wire on the gfci looks like it needs to be stripped more and put deeper into the retaining bracket ~3/4 inch like the bottom one is. Also I would check all the connections under those wire nuts. I would make sure all of them are pretwisted with linesman pliers before putting wire nuts on.

E said:

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That is a very good question. I don't know the answer now but will check when I get home. Will be tough though as I don't know which of the wires goes to the fridge.

While I'm at Home Depot, do you think upgrading the GFCI to 20 amp will help? Or not necessary?

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Not necessary. GFCIs trip on an imbalance suggesting a ground fault, not overload. Both 15s and 20s are looking for a nominal 5mA differential.

Holy water might help.

I'm agnostic so I don't know if it will help me...

I switched the lines that were connected to the line and load. I read somewhere that items downstream of GFI on Line aren't protected by GFI.

Plugged in and awaiting the results...

No go. GFI turned off.

Here is the outlet that is in the laundry room behind the fridge outlet. The line goes from GFI #1 to fridge outlet and dead ends here. It also has the red wire screwed into this box.

Funny thing is, when plugged in, the fridge worked when extension corded in this outlet.

Success!! (For now)

I replaced the GFI with a new one and made sure all connections were clean and 100% tight. Line and load had correct connections.

Don't let the red wire bug you, that's just someone grounding the wall boxes long ago.

Dammit! Woke up today and everything on that line was turned off and breaker wasnt tripped.

Worked well for a few days and now nothing. Could replacing that GFCI with a standard outlet help out?

Remind me, that circuit starts at the breaker, goes to GFCI #1, then on to the fridge, and then what?

It deadends at the next outlet, the one on the other side of the wall in laundry room. It is the last picture I posted, a few posts above. Strangely, when plugged into that last outlet, the compressor does come on.

When I came home today I reset the the GFCI and the compressor did kick on. For how long will it last, that is the question. I'm contemplating using an extension cord and running it to somewhere else on this line and see how long it will work for.

Would replacing this GFCI #1 with a standard outlet help? Although I do have like 3 lines spurning off of this one. One to GFCI #2, one to microwave outlet and one to this fridge outlet.

E said:

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It deadends at the next outlet, the one on the other side of the wall in laundry room. It is the last picture I posted, a few posts above. Strangely, when plugged into that last outlet, the compressor does come on.


When I came home today I reset the the GFCI and the compressor did kick on. For how long will it last, that is the question. I'm contemplating using an extension cord and running it to somewhere else on this line and see how long it will work for.

Would replacing this GFCI #1 with a standard outlet help? Although I do have like 3 lines spurning off of this one. One to GFCI #2, one to microwave outlet and one to this fridge outlet.

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What is plugged into the laundry room outlet?

You are running a microwave and fridge on the same circuit ? Is there a dishwasher on the circuit too ? What else is on the outlets on the circuit ? Coffee maker ?

And are you saying you have 2 gfci outlets on 1 circuit ?

Nothing is ever plugged into the laundry room outlet. Microwave (via its own outlet), GFCI #2 (nothing is ever plugged into it) and Fridge all go through GFCI #1. I have a keurig and small toaster that I hardly ever use that is plugged directly into GFCI #1.

Dishwasher is on its own GFCI and goes to its own line to the breaker I believe.

Why is there a second gfci downstream from the first gfci on the same circuit? You need to find the home run for the circuit and install a new gfci feeding the home run wires into the line side at the very first outlet and wire it where every outlet downstream outlet is on the load side is protected from the single gfci.

JP76 said:

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Why is there a second gfci downstream from the first gfci on the same circuit? You need to find the home run for the circuit and install a new gfci feeding the home run wires into the line side at the very first outlet and wire it where every outlet downstream outlet is on the load side is protected from the single gfci.

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You can have multiple GFCI's on a circuit. It helps with nuisance tripping taking down everything. I'd also avoid using one to protect a long ass circuit running multiple things.

I asked about the line and load terminals earlier to try and figure out how it's connected. When you connect the downstream circuit to the LINE terminals of a GFCI, it acts like any other connection. The GFCI is blind to whatever is downstream.

When you connect the downstream circuit to the LOAD terminals, the black box in the GFCI will watch everything downstream. Since your fridge is popping the GFCI, I'm going to guess that GFCI #1 feeds the fridge from the LOAD terminals. Since the fridge works (going from memory here) when it's plugged into the laundry receptacle and GFCI #2, I'm also going to guess that part of the circuit is fed from either the LINE terminals, or from a pigtail, or some other direct connection.

It's entirely possible that if left plugged in long enough, the fridge would pop GFCI #2. It's also possible it might run forever without any problems. You just have to have the right circumstances for the black box to think there's a fault and blammo. If GFCI #1 does have the fridge outlet on the LOAD terminals, it's a sort of double whammy. If you have a long enough circuit (and there's no magic definition of long), you can build up enough ground current or capacitive leakage to where the GFCI is "preloaded". In other words, the black box in the GFCI is seeing 2 milliamps just from the wiring. Your fridge kicks on and adds 3.5 milliamps to cross the 5 milliamp threshold and pop.

All that to say, check GFCI #1 and see if the fridge is on the LOAD terminals. If it is, switch it to the LINE terminals to where the GFCI isn't watching it. You could, in theory, replace GFCI #1 with a regular outlet to accomplish almost the same thing, but it would potentially remove a GFCI where there ought to be one.

"It helps with nuisance tripping taking down everything. I'd also avoid using one to protect a long ass circuit running multiple things. "

Except In this case both gfci outlets are easily accessible within 4 ft of each other above the counter so it seems redundant to have 2



Could a loose neutral or ground on the bus bar cause this ? Or loose hot on the breaker ?
Nearly Every gfci issue I have seen that wasn't from a bad outlet or water leakage was from a loose connection somewhere on the circuit.

By having individual devices, the OP can have the laundry recep and the fridge recep on that same existing circuit without worrying about nuisance tripping - you have protection only where you need it. I'd try really, really, really hard to keep fridges and freezers off GFCI protected circuits. Having a single GFCI at the homerun in this case makes the fridge a ticking timebomb.

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Could a loose neutral or ground on the bus bar cause this ? Or loose hot on the breaker ?

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Don't think a loose ground will do it. GFCI tripping has nothing to do with the ground. A loose neutral or hot might, but I don't think it's the case here. The loose connection could make the voltage flutter, but a GFCI doesn't necessarily care about what voltage it sees. Whether it's 125V, 120V or 109V, it wants to make sure X amps run out on the hot and X amps comes back.

Hey guys, I wanted to update the situation, as I believe the problem has been fixed!

First, I wanted to say thanks for all the input and info yall provided! this has been the experience where I learned the most about home electrical.

I spoke with my dad, and he suggested since fridges dont like GFCI's, that I replace this first GFCI, with a standard outlet. I replaced it with a standard outlet on friday and it has been working like a champ! I just hope with all the other lines stemming off of this outlet, it is safe.

If this didnt fix the issue, my other options were to run a dedicated line from breaker to fridge/laundry outlet. This would be a major pain, as I have alot of blowin insulation and my attic has a low roof line where all these connections would be. Or to have Samsung come out and prove they didn't sell me a lemon.