So I have begun the project of remodeling my 1970 master bathroom. Rather than continuing to pollute multiple threads with my various threads as I have questions, I decided to make one all encompassing thread for all of my questions and to document my progress and lessons as I go to hopefully be helpful to others.

The Project:
I am currently taking my 1970s, builder grade, master bathroom and gutting it to the slab and studs, making it larger, moving plumbing, updating electrical and making a master bath to be proud of. I plan to do as much as I can, but have never officially done permitted, inspected work so am learning as I go.

Edit: here are the before pictures to begin to truly show the project.







The Plans:

(also if anyone can tell me why it is just showing the links to the pictures and not the actual pictures that would be awesome. Thanks)

Lessons so far:
-Houston won't let you do your own electrical and requires an electrical permit for just about everything past changing a light bulb.
-Some people in the permitting office will claim a homeowner cannot get a permit to do plumbing or any mechanical work, but if you live in the house, push back and go up to the 4th floor (inspections). there, and inspector can approve a homeowner permit allowing you to go back downstairs and purchase the permit.
-If you haven't done the work on a professional/permitted level before, don't assume the way you know is to code, read the relevant codes ahead of time to save yourself a headache later by leaving something out.

On that last note, to anyone who has had structural inspections before, or knows inspectors, how likely is it to fail a framing inspection due to one sole plate for a single wall not being pressure treated (all my walls rest directly on the slab)? all the other walls will have PT sole plates, but i jumped in before reading and didn't realize i needed PT soles before putting that wall up, and it will be HUGE pain to fix that.

Thanks!

I hope you have a lot of fun with the project. Let me know if you need any help, official or otherwise. If you have questions about plumbing permits or inspections, talk to Carlos in the Plumbing section.

Crazy you can own a house and not be allowed to change out an outlet. Permits have their place in keeping contractors from doing poor work but I don't think a homeowner should have to pull a permit for anything they personally do.

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Crazy you can own a house and not be allowed to change out an outlet. Permits have their place in keeping contractors from doing poor work but I don't think a homeowner should have to pull a permit for anything they personally do.

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It largely has to do with life safety. We don't want exhaust gases from a water heater killing you in your sleep, poorly wired fixtures to burn down your house, etc.

It's sad to say that here in Charleston the worst work I've seen was permitted and inspected. Breakers not torqued correctly, hurricane straps not attached to anything type stuff. There must have been $100 bills attached to the paperwork.

Weekend 1 of Demo:
Well, what started as a single weekend project of "Let just redo the closet and we'll get to the rest of the bathroom later" after closet demo quickly turned into "Well... to do this right, we really need to go ahead and do it all at once... honey...?" So here is what it looks like after one weekend of demo. This first weekend made things seem way easier than they would turn out being.

The dog wanted to help


Stupid Bi-fold closet gutted


Ceiling Coming Down!



After the Decision to do the whole bathroom


At this point my wife says "So maybe we should sit down and put together a plan and a budget since apparently we are doing this whole thing now..." Whoops, glad I married such a patient woman because as future post will show, things will not go exactly smoothly.

I know the feeling. "I need to install a new water heater" turned into "french doors, a laundry room, new windows, new siding, tile flooring, and a water heater" when my spouse got involved.

Yea, unfortunately this one was my fault, and was really a function of jumping in without fully planning the project first. But oh well, "soon" there will be a new bathroom and the reno process will just be a memory.

So the last few weeks have been a combination of finishing up demolition, putting up a new wall and dealing with the city permitting center and sub contractors.

Step one was pressing on to finish up the demo after the excitement of a new project has worn off leaving us with this at the end of week 1:


Week two consisted of building the new load bearing wall and getting the roof braced to it in order to remove the old one. Lots of time up to my elbows in attic insulation. In fact i still itch just thinking about it. But at the end of the week I had a new wall, and a new ceiling joist, leaving the old wall ready to come down.

Finishing Up Demo



Here is the new wall going up (those of you familiar in building code around framing may see a problem at this point that I will discover in about a week and a half:


Next up is the drywall to seal off the guest room from construction debris


from the other side in the master bedroom


At this point i finally get a plumber in who can give me a reasonable bid to move some drain lines in the slab who also assures me that it is a single day project. OK, time to schedule them. What do you mean you want my project number to pull a permit against... i guess i should go get permits for all this work that has already started. Talk about nerves, sitting with a plan reviewer, hoping he will approve your plans for how to re-arrange some structural elements since, ya know, they have already been moved.... Well luckily, while i might not have known the process to do permitting correctly, i at least knew how to make something structurally sound so my plans were approved. Next step in permitting, find an electrician who can pull some permits prior to the first plumbing inspection to avoid the embarrassing moment of an inspector seeing the wires already in the new wall with no electrical permit pulled...

Well to bring this little story up to date, Electrician has been found who looked at the work and made me a reasonable bid, all permits pulled, and the plumber is finally scheduled and coming. But oops, that "easily a single day" project turns into a 2 day project and needs 3 follow up visits, which working outside the hours of 11-3 might have sped that along but whatever, at least the work was good and passed, and here is the result:

day 1 of plumber



day 2 of plumber


Now with that inspected an passed, some of you may have noticed that the sole plate on that new wall that went up looked like it wasn't pressure treated. If you noticed that, congratulations, you noticed it a week ahead of me. I noticed it after the old wall was out... so i have spent this past week bracing the ceiling back up, cutting the old non PT sole plate out from under the studs, and wedging and attaching a new PT sole plate back in its place. One of those pain in the butt corrections that cause a lot of frustration but cause a lesson learned to stick with you the rest of your life. Never again will i forget a PT sole plate, or to brush up on all relevant code ahead of doing the work. Now hopefully this weekend i will get the slab re-poured and leveled and can get all the new framing up....

Looking good. Why'd you remove the ceiling though?

Thanks. And I decided to pull it down or a combination of reasons. Partly because where I would be moving walls to would have require patching in a lot of weird shaped and sized pieces of drywall. Now I will be able to use mostly whole sheets. Also not I will have easier access to do things like installing the exhaust fan and recessed lighting. I figured between those two things I would probably save time in the long run just pulling it down and putting it all back up fresh. It definitely helped out hen I was up and down out of the attic to move the roof supports. Also helped because i don't think I would have been able to get my new 14 ft joist up there without the gaping hole in the ceiling. Didn't think of that one ahead of time though. I just lucked out

Well, the weekend didn't see quite as much accomplished as I would have liked, it was an interesting weekend. First, spent all of Friday evening at the hardware store getting materials and equipment for the next days slab work. I intended to rent an electric cement mixer because I have done my time mixing by hand and wanted to be lazy. First think into the store and I got to the tool rental desk to get the mixer they said they had when I called earlier. I go out back with the employee and he plugs it in to make sure it works (call me crazy but should the tool rental center know the condition of their equipment?), surprise surprise, it doesn't. It being early in the weekend, I still have a fire and determination so I roll up my sleeves, climb underneath and fix it for the store, turns out one of the wheels had just slipped its belt. So I rented it, and took it as well as as much concrete as my half ton pickup would hold (I think I actually hauled about 2k lbs...) and went home. The next morning I get the holes prepped, get some more concrete and am ready to pour by afternoon. So I fire up the mixer, start adding in concrete, and on bag number 2 it dies... it stripped out the belt that I had put back on the night before. So out comes the wheelbarrow and hoe, and my wife and I mixed and poured 23 bags of concrete. Dusty and hard work but we finally had a solid floor by Saturday evening. here is the evidence:
initial prep

ready to pour

We have a floor!


unfortunately all that cement dust gave my wife a migraine the next day, so framing didn't get done this weekend (apparently framing inside a house does not create a comfortable environment for someone with a splitting headache...) But we got most of it up last night, and will finish tonight, and by end of work Thursday the goal is to have the following done:

• framing/shower blocking
  
• rough in plumbing
  
• shower pan
  
• rough in electrical
  
• exhaust fans installed
  

Then Friday we can get all rough in type inspections done and put up drywall this weekend... which would put us back on track for a Nov 1 (read: start of deer season) finish... gonna be a busy week. wish us luck.

I so want to do some of this to my bathroom (foundation work not necessary)...keep the details and pics coming

Good luck!

ANY, maybe ALL projects we have attempted have taken longer than expected. Some, several where skilled workers were used took longer than they expected or at least would admit to. In completing some of our projects we caused or were a part of the cause of added headaches.

You need a fresh supply of "chill out pills" before you begin something of this nature or Ryan's or Fife's and certainly a huge dose of "I just about killed myself" like Mr Dubi's !

We are looking at some reno, flooring, paint and kitchen updates and thinking about it makes me breakout in a cold, clammy sweat!

You should get some friends to help!

Well, after working until midnight on Monday and 2 a.m. this morning, the bathroom is ready for the plumber today. Turns out my mindset from college finals still does apply to real life (don't worry about it until the last minute, then put in several nearly sleepless nights to finish on time.) Whoever said you should just do a little bit each day has clearly never experienced the thrill of trying to frame after midnight and not wake up the wife or neighbors. (I was successful on only one of those two fronts though) But after a bit more time at big blue and big orange, I finally got the suppliers I needed and got the shower, closet, and water closet framed out. there are a few finishing touches on some of those needed, and i need to move a door, but other than that, framing is done. got my shower bench built, and a nice pretty curb for my shower. Here is my handy work from the last two nights for those interested:

here is the shower and water closet


and here is the walk in closet framing. its kinda hard to see, partly because most of that wall will be the pocket door, and partly because i need to get some more light fixures put up in there.


Some lessons I have learned from the last few nights:

• If you are ever messing with wiring in an old house, don't bother trying to reuse old (but still sound and to code) wires, the time you will spend trying to fight the hardened insulation isn't worth it, just replace it with new wire and save the headache
  
• Also, if you are doing work that requires turning off the breaker, and it is night, best to gather all of your supplies and tools PRIOR to turning off the power... ooops...
  
• When you start hitting your fingers consistently with the hammer, that's your bodies way of saying go to bed
  
• Homemade, extra strong dark roast drip coffee with a double shot of espresso IS an effective substitute for sleep (also it least you feel color and taste sound)
  
• If it is the one last piece you need before going to finish a project, the current hardware store you are in will not have it, or know one will know where/what it is (although nothing will ever beat the baffled look I got one time when I asked the hardware associate if they had any #20 biscuits... instantly knew i was better off just looking myself)

One question I did come up with though (semi-rhetorical) at about 1:30 this morning while rushing to finish the shower bench so everything was ready for the plumbers this morning: Why is it, that if the plumber shows up, and everything is not quite ready for them, I get charged an additional $150 for a "return visit", but if they show up at 11 and work until 3:30, and then have the audacity to say they couldn't finish and will have to come back tomorrow (requiring me to take an additional day off, and continue to wait on them for my parts of the work), I'm just supposed to smile and say that's fine with no additional compensation to me?

sorry for the rant, I'll go back to my coffee and my day job now.

(side note: when posting a reply, anyone know why some of my emoticon options at the top are greyed out where I can't select them? Thanks)

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(side note: when posting a reply, anyone know why some of my emoticon options at the top are greyed out where I can't select them? Thanks)

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That's because you are not a paid subscriber. If you pay $5 or so a month, you can use them.

If you would just spam this thread with a few more random posts you could kick that Rookie status and your pictures would actually show up...

Or pay Billy his dues and have picture posting abilities granted immediately.

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Why is it, that if the plumber shows up, and everything is not quite ready for them, I get charged an additional $150 for a "return visit", but if they show up at 11 and work until 3:30, and then have the audacity to say they couldn't finish and will have to come back tomorrow (requiring me to take an additional day off, and continue to wait on them for my parts of the work), I'm just supposed to smile and say that's fine with no additional compensation to me?

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Because you signed his contract (presumably), not the other way around. And no plumber would be willing to sign a contract with liquidated damages and a schedule for that quantity of work.

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here is the shower and water closet

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I like that design. What is the total wall span? I may do that to mine.

Total width at that front wall of the shower/water closet is 88-3/4". inside edge to inside edge of the framed wc is 36" leaving 49-1/4" for the shower.

and Aggietaco, I get that, but what ever happened to a little professional courtesy, If you aren't going to work a full day on my project, then don't tell me that I am the only project for the day and that it can be done in a single day. My time is just as valuable as theirs.

and update: the plumber just called and said "we had to finish up another job from yesterday and will be there lat this morning/early afternoon. We'll call you 30 minutes ahead to let you know we are coming." another instance of, clearly you knew you were going to have to go back to that job when you wrapped up yesterday, why not call me then so I schedule my morning accordingly and not anticipate you first thing in the morning as originally promised. Again, professional courtesy. I'm about to just fire them and do the job myself, they already did the hard part i didn't want to do, jacking through the foundation.

To Ryan the temp or anyone who knows permitting in Houston. What is the process for taking over work that a contractor has a permit for. Specifically to go ahead and do the shower pan and trim later if say for instance you decide to fire your plumber? Thanks

The plumber has to transfer it. If he doesn't, you normally have to get new permits if you want it in someone else's name.

Or you go ahead and do the work and get it inspected on the original permit. If there gets to be an issue, get in touch with me and we can work through it with the Plumbing section.

Thanks, any chance you know if it costs anything to have a permit transferred?

I made some calls about this. You (or your new plumber) will have to buy a new permit. If you have already had the rough-in inspection, you will only have to buy a permit for the trim-out plumbing and final. You will have to recoup those costs from the plumber you fired.

Only the permit holder can call for an inspection, so my suggestion would be to pull a homeowner permit that will allow you to hire and fire any plumber at-will without having to get a new permit.

Good thread so far....would be interested to see you getting to the finishing (paint, tile, countertop, etc).

haha yea, at this point I am also very interested to see the finishes....

so another questions (I know I have a lot of questions today but I am in a training so am limited to how much I can research.)

when you schedule an inspection, all of the various online for instance for a structural inspection i can select framing and insulation. if i miss a check, will the inspector check all the necessary things while he is there that is open and ready (so long as it is the right department ie. structural, plumbing, etc.)? or if not, is there a good way other than just calling the inspectors what exactly will be required for my project. like if they pulled down one wall section of insulation for running the plumbing vent line, do i need it inspected replacing it? things like that.

thanks in advance

I don't know about what they do in Houston... but here in Austin, if I requested framing inspection, that's all they'll do. If I missed an inspection by accident, and because of that, they couldn't do follow-on inspection that I just requested... they would just fail the inspection I just requested. They are like robots.

Hopefully it's better in Houston.

What I have found here in Austin though is to talk to the inspectors on the field... they tend to be nice and tell you what you need next, etc. So if you meet the inspection for inspection A, ask him what's next (step B, C, etc).

stardustag basically just described the process here in Houston as well. Our goal is for your project to be successful, and you should never be afraid to ask questions about the process. If you have a lot of questions, it could be worth your time to go into the permitting center to talk to someone in Residential One-Stop or the various trade inspections to layout the rundown of what you need to do and when. Fridays are normally lighter traffic days, or you can call to make an appointment.

These types of permits and inspections are still only required for the DIYer if they are in a city, correct?

City of Houston permitting is a tremendously frustrating experience and seemingly largely a money maker for the city rather than actually a safety issue (speaking from a commercial and not residential perspective).

MaroonDontRun: Yes, itappears this type of permitting is only required withing the city limits, though I hear that some municipalities have started requiring it as well, and my experience with the inspectors so far confirms that the process mainly serves to generate money and does little to ensure the quality of work.

Update: So it's been a while since my last update because I got called out of town for work for two weeks so this update will be a bit long, but hopefully will contain some valuable nuggets for those considering a similar project, and entertainment for those just interested in following my project. So here it goes:
So my plumber finally made it over about 11 thatmorning from my last post and was supposed to be there to do the rough in plumbing and build the shower pan so the inspection could be done in one day. Well I quickly got a call at work that they weren't going to do the pan because I hadn't blocked it out correctly (though it was fine by code) and would have to charge me a fee for a return visit. This despite the fact that they originally planned on doing these pieces in 2 separate visits and were only trying to squeeze it into one at my request and I had specifically called and asked about how they needed it done before they got there and the answer given was, call the inspectors office and ask him (see "to code" above). I did this but it wasn't what they wanted. To make it worse, it took them all day for the rough in so they wouldn't have even had time to do the pan that day. Here is where I made the decision to let them finish the rough in, and then tell them not to come back that I would finish it myself (decision confirmed later). They finished the rough in and that night I got to work to finish out my framing so I could try to get the electrical rough in and meet my "get everything inspected Friday goal". Well, about the time I dropped a double 2x8, 5 ft header on my head, and then tried to get up and walk away, only to step on and run a nail through my shoe and foot, I decided I was too tired and this just wasn't going to be all done by Friday. So I called it quits and scheduled the framing inspection to go
along with the rough-in inspection. It's hard to see but here is the rough in for the toilet, shower and double vanity with some of the framing showing:

And here is the "finished" framing:



Looking at the new "door" from the bedroom:


Fast forward to Friday. Plumbing inspector shows up and checks the work and fails us (and by us I mean the professional plumber I hired). All the plumbing is holding water (or so we think) but the connection
between the new pipe and the old cast iron is not the right type. Apparently these are supposed to be no-hub connections to prevent pipe movement:


I would have thought the paid professional would have known that Well, so he passed everything else so we could drain the pipes and said he just wants to see the new connection when he comes back for the shower pan. Although he was concerned we had drywall in the shower:


But don't worry, as we assured him it was just so they could measure for the marble and would be replaced with kerdi board later. They come and rough measure for marble, and apparently we picked a slab that
doubled our price estimate for the counter and bench, oops but the glass guys came in under our estimate when they measured. At this point I will plug them and say so far I highly recommend Lonestar Glass (hope I don't have to come back and change this later). Finally the framing inspector shows up. I was a bit stressed for this because it was the first piece of my work to be inspected, so I had checked nailing patterns, size of nails, made sure all the stamps for the lumber grade were showing, and did everything to a T. He didn't even
look at my framing he was upset the plumbing inspector had just been giving us the pass stickers with his signature on them, but not signing the actual permit. That was it; he passed us without even looking at my framing. I freaking moved a load bearing wall that supports that entire end of the roof and he didn't even
look at it. At this point I have lost faith in a permitted and inspected remodel meaning anything. If you get a good inspector, he will make sure its good work, if you get a not-so-good inspector, he will make sure all the
signatures are in the right place to cover the city's butt. Well we now have one pass and one fail and cue my being called to Colorado for 2 weeks.

I'm back and back to work. Step one is to finallydrain the water that has held for 2 weeks now and remove those drain plugs. The vent pipes drain without incident but remember how earlier I said we thought
everything was holding. Well there was one connection on the vanity drains that had been below the test plug, where it connected into the old cast-iron drain. Well I let the air out of the plug to drain the half gallon of water in the lines and immediately see this:


Yes, that is water leaking from a drain line froman inconsequential amount of water running through. To say I was pissed would be a serious understatement. Luckily at the end of the weekend I was able to get a wrench in there and tighten it to the point it stopped leaking even with steady water flow through. Otherwise my (ex)plumber would not have enjoyed the phone call they would have gotten today. Well, after that fiasco The rest of the weekend was spent seeing the rough-in electrical run. This entailed spending about an hour in this space trying to get the cable pulled from between the house to the "detached" garage through the breezeway roof:


For reference, I am 6' 3" and that space is nottall enough for me to be on my hands and knees, and is deep enough that fully down in there, my feet would barely have been visible in this picture. So tons of fun, because of which we pulled two cables and a line of paracord through, 1 line for the new circuit, 1 for a future circuit if we ever want one, and the paracord to pull more cables later with half the work if we need
to later. So after a long hard weekend (and about a case of beer) the electrical rough-in is done, the plumbing is half way to being fixed, and one of two pocket door frames is in. The goal is to have all rough in work done to have all inspections Friday so we can start closing up the walls. Here are some pictures from the end product of the weekend

Partially finished pocket door frame:


Electrical rough-in with in-progress plumbing:


More rough-in:


Here you can kinda see the exhaust vent and thevent/light combo in the water closet:


Pano from the angle I have been doing panos from:


This pano is kinda distorted but it is standingin the middle of the back wall with 180 degrees of view (closet on the left, "vanity"
in front, and shower/water closet on the left):



If you made it to this point thanks for reading,hopefully this week goes well and soon you will start to see this room look like a bathroom.

If you are concerned about the quality of inspections you are receiving, you should say something.

Yea. I am going to give him another chance because it was my wife home for that inspection so at this point I am going off her impression. There is a possibility he looked at it, immediately saw it looked sound and didn't feel it needed a close examination. Next time he comes though I will be here to talk to him so if that impression holds true I will do just that. (although I didn't realize that was an option). However he may change my mind in which case I will have to take back what I said above.

Looks good. Did you change your plans as far as door layout? Are you entering the bathroom through the closet now?