Max Homa calls his shot
Rahm LIV Rumor
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Last: 1 yr ago by _lefraud_
PGA Tour and LIV are in merger talks.
This is a leverage/power move. Rahm probably is receiving a token amount (say $10 million)
to put his name and signature on this "move".
So will LIV players get to double dip once the tours are merged? At some point Saudi will screw them
This is a leverage/power move. Rahm probably is receiving a token amount (say $10 million)
to put his name and signature on this "move".
So will LIV players get to double dip once the tours are merged? At some point Saudi will screw them
Remember the last year LIV top tournament had ratings far worse than the Cheez-It bowl.
We are talking a few thousand viewers. The LIV model is complete garbage when it comes to ratings
which translates to dollars. LIV is a zombie business
We are talking a few thousand viewers. The LIV model is complete garbage when it comes to ratings
which translates to dollars. LIV is a zombie business
Read No Laying Up on a good summary of the golf game right now.
Sums up my thoughts on this whole PGAT/LIV battle
So much of the professional golf world just doesn't make sense:
— No Laying Up (@NoLayingUp) December 7, 2023
-It doesn't make sense to watch 18 minutes of commercials per hour in a PGA Tour event.
-It doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events.
-It doesn't make… pic.twitter.com/zTCQygqWLG
That is very well summarized
Thanks
How does Jay Monahan still have a job..
Prob to sit in the room until this liv deal gets done and then he is shown the door
"it doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events."
When will this talking point end? Of course I wouldn't expect the NLU schleps to realize that since they've been PGAT bootlickers in exchange for access, but this is so tired. If the same networks that currently broadcast PGAT events were to broadcast LIV events it would absolutely get eyeballs. And LIV is going to continue to pay until they have a dominant amount of the world's best to force that into happening. That has been the very public and open strategy from the start Are they and others just being willfully ignorant? Or still stuck in a mindset where the PGAT is at the center of the golf universe?
When will this talking point end? Of course I wouldn't expect the NLU schleps to realize that since they've been PGAT bootlickers in exchange for access, but this is so tired. If the same networks that currently broadcast PGAT events were to broadcast LIV events it would absolutely get eyeballs. And LIV is going to continue to pay until they have a dominant amount of the world's best to force that into happening. That has been the very public and open strategy from the start Are they and others just being willfully ignorant? Or still stuck in a mindset where the PGAT is at the center of the golf universe?
But even with a massive TV deal, you know that those payments aren't going to be covered by TV, right? It won't be profitable if the numbers are true.
But the Saudis don't have to worry about profitability because they have a nearly unlimited stream of funds. PGAT doesn't. Surely you can at least acknowledge that fact.
And in that view, it doesn't make a lick of business sense.
But the Saudis don't have to worry about profitability because they have a nearly unlimited stream of funds. PGAT doesn't. Surely you can at least acknowledge that fact.
And in that view, it doesn't make a lick of business sense.
Bunk Moreland said:
"it doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events."
When will this talking point end? Of course I wouldn't expect the NLU schleps to realize that since they've been PGAT bootlickers in exchange for access, but this is so tired. If the same networks that currently broadcast PGAT events were to broadcast LIV events it would absolutely get eyeballs. And LIV is going to continue to pay until they have a dominant amount of the world's best to force that into happening. That has been the very public and open strategy from the start Are they and others just being willfully ignorant? Or still stuck in a mindset where the PGAT is at the center of the golf universe?
Yes, more people would watch if the tournaments didn't come on after Seventh Heaven reruns, but it's a joke to say that's just a talking point. There is no scenario where Jon Rahm is worth $500 million. They could broadcast LIV on ESPN, ABC, NBC, and CBS every weekend and he still wouldn't be worth that.
Buck Compton said:
But even with a massive TV deal, you know that those payments aren't going to be covered by TV, right? It won't be profitable if the numbers are true.
But the Saudis don't have to worry about profitability because they have a nearly unlimited stream of funds. PGAT doesn't. Surely you can at least acknowledge that fact.
And in that view, it doesn't make a lick of business sense.
This is exactly why stuff like this tweet annoy the s*** out of me.
If I paid $15 million for a house worth $1 million, did I really accomplish something?
I would do unspeakable thinks for $500 million, but let's not act like the Saudis have accomplished anything other than paying for players.
There is likely never going to be enough interest in their team golf component to drive any 'franchise' value. No one is buying these egocentric guys doing anything other than playing for themselves. PIF can likely figure out a way to have a couple of mega purse worldwide events each year and that might get some traction. But with golf already on the decline from Covid peak, and the membership and equipment costs continuing to push out the middle class, they might be too late. People are playing pickleball now.
So dumb, all of this.
So dumb, all of this.
"-It doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events.
-It doesn't make sense for PGA Tour purses to keep going up when ratings essentially aren't changing"
You have to take these 2 statements together. LIV money doesn't make sense because even with all the publicity and increased payouts these last 2 years PGAT viewership is flat and LIV is non existent. Putting LIV on network TV or ESPN isn't going to magically make people start watching. There has to be some sort of demand, and right now demand for golf across the board is stale.
-It doesn't make sense for PGA Tour purses to keep going up when ratings essentially aren't changing"
You have to take these 2 statements together. LIV money doesn't make sense because even with all the publicity and increased payouts these last 2 years PGAT viewership is flat and LIV is non existent. Putting LIV on network TV or ESPN isn't going to magically make people start watching. There has to be some sort of demand, and right now demand for golf across the board is stale.
guadalupeag said:
"-It doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events.
-It doesn't make sense for PGA Tour purses to keep going up when ratings essentially aren't changing"
You have to take these 2 statements together. LIV money doesn't make sense because even with all the publicity and increased payouts these last 2 years PGAT viewership is flat and LIV is non existent. Putting LIV on network TV or ESPN isn't going to magically make people start watching. There has to be some sort of demand, and right now demand for golf across the board is stale.
The demand is going to be in the reunification and PIF/LIV knows this. They'll likely be calling the shots. Golf was stale. Scottie and Cantlay don't move a needle. Needle movers have by and large gone to LIV from a global standpoint other than Tiger and Rory. And they can only carry the Tour so far.
On a separate point, I understand many people completely disagree with this but I'm all for team golf mixed with individual if done right. I've actually enjoyed the team aspect of LIV. People can think it's not genuine but it looks genuine to me.
I'm sorry but there are a lot more needle movers on the PGAT than LIV. Rahm was obviously a huge blow but I can't even keep a straight face when reading your comment...Bunk Moreland said:guadalupeag said:
"-It doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events.
-It doesn't make sense for PGA Tour purses to keep going up when ratings essentially aren't changing"
You have to take these 2 statements together. LIV money doesn't make sense because even with all the publicity and increased payouts these last 2 years PGAT viewership is flat and LIV is non existent. Putting LIV on network TV or ESPN isn't going to magically make people start watching. There has to be some sort of demand, and right now demand for golf across the board is stale.
The demand is going to be in the reunification and PIF/LIV knows this. They'll likely be calling the shots. Golf was stale. Scottie and Cantlay don't move a needle. Needle movers have by and large gone to LIV from a global standpoint other than Tiger and Rory. And they can only carry the Tour so far.
On a separate point, I understand many people completely disagree with this but I'm all for team golf mixed with individual if done right. I've actually enjoyed the team aspect of LIV. People can think it's not genuine but it looks genuine to me.
Yet, here you are.
The TOUR and their TV deal sucks and their slow move to recognize that giving equal power to players always in the 75-125 range of the standings as they do to the top 50 left them vulnerable to this.
I'm fine with change. But it being the Saudis absolutely sucks. They're gonna take over just about all sports before long.
I'm fine with change. But it being the Saudis absolutely sucks. They're gonna take over just about all sports before long.
Even if the merger goes through tomorrow how is that going to increase demand? Combining PGAT and LIV viewership doesn't make the money make sense. LIV is money whipping the Tour, it's obviously working, but it's done nothing to increase golf viewership overall which is what is needed to justify the money being thrown around.
aggiebonzo said:I'm sorry but there are a lot more needle movers on the PGAT than LIV. Rahm was obviously a huge blow but I can't even keep a straight face when reading your comment...Bunk Moreland said:guadalupeag said:
"-It doesn't make sense for LIV to pay guys hundreds of millions of dollars when no one is watching the events.
-It doesn't make sense for PGA Tour purses to keep going up when ratings essentially aren't changing"
You have to take these 2 statements together. LIV money doesn't make sense because even with all the publicity and increased payouts these last 2 years PGAT viewership is flat and LIV is non existent. Putting LIV on network TV or ESPN isn't going to magically make people start watching. There has to be some sort of demand, and right now demand for golf across the board is stale.
The demand is going to be in the reunification and PIF/LIV knows this. They'll likely be calling the shots. Golf was stale. Scottie and Cantlay don't move a needle. Needle movers have by and large gone to LIV from a global standpoint other than Tiger and Rory. And they can only carry the Tour so far.
On a separate point, I understand many people completely disagree with this but I'm all for team golf mixed with individual if done right. I've actually enjoyed the team aspect of LIV. People can think it's not genuine but it looks genuine to me.
Name em.
guadalupeag said:
Even if the merger goes through tomorrow how is that going to increase demand? Combining PGAT and LIV viewership doesn't make the money make sense. LIV is money whipping the Tour, it's obviously working, but it's done nothing to increase golf viewership overall which is what is needed to justify the money being thrown around.
The money now doesn't matter to the PIF. It's the idea of 10 or 20 years down the road of a vision of how to make golf more mainstream. We'll see if it works but a reunification with network coverage and buy in will be billed as a massive event. And if they're smart they'll first do some combo events billed as one vs the other to drive love and hate on both sides.
LIV is very much a work in progress but one thing is certain is that they're looking at the next 30 years of golf fans, not the last. And that's where the money will ultimately be.
They may not get it right but they're doing things that makes golf more interesting to younger crowds who don't view Tiger as their God.
Everyone bagging on LIV and there tour deals needs to stfu and realize that even the 2019 masters when Tiger won the ratings still in sucked in the grand scheme of things. a regular slap fight NFL game draws over twice as many viewers as masters. Nobody watches the PGAT regardless. Hence why nbc and cbs are getting rid of all the on air talent. It's already a sinking ship with sponsors losing their asses. LIV golf backed by Saudi money. Is here to stay whether you like it or not. Which is why Jay went in agreement with them. PGAT and it financials are crap.
So in an effort to appeal to younger fans, their first step was to go out and make Greg Norman the face of the tour? And then follow that up with signing several guys that were clearly past their prime? What you said may very well be true, but they've done a horrible job so far. At this point they would be better off just paying Taylor Swift a billion a year to show up at all their events.
Seems far more likely they're just trying to force the PGAT's hand at this point so they can eventually take over. Which they most likely will. But that still doesn't make the money make sense. Maybe it will in 10 years, but short of another Tiger or Arnie coming along I doubt team golf and shotgun starts are going to drive young viewers that much.
Seems far more likely they're just trying to force the PGAT's hand at this point so they can eventually take over. Which they most likely will. But that still doesn't make the money make sense. Maybe it will in 10 years, but short of another Tiger or Arnie coming along I doubt team golf and shotgun starts are going to drive young viewers that much.
I'm ready for one of the two extremes, either this all implodes on both sides or they merge. The in between crap makes for a less interesting product all around for us fans.
AustinCountyAg said:
Everyone bagging on LIV and there tour deals needs to stfu and realize that even the 2019 masters when Tiger won the ratings still in sucked in the grand scheme of things. a regular slap fight NFL game draws over twice as many viewers as masters. Nobody watches the PGAT regardless. Hence why nbc and cbs are getting rid of all the on air talent. It's already a sinking ship with sponsors losing their asses. LIV golf backed by Saudi money. Is here to stay whether you like it or not. Which is why Jay went in agreement with them. PGAT and it financials are crap.
Not sure I'd use 2019 as an example, rain pushed the telecast up 5 hours. The 2023 masters pulled higher ratings than the NBA finals and World Series. The average golf fan is also much wealthier than the average NFL or NBA fan. There's more money to be had per the average golf fan.
That said I agree the LIV tour is here to stay. I also agree the PGA tour can't afford to keep paying out the way they have the past 2 years. The money just isn't there.
I've watched more LIV than I care to admit and I do like the graphics and coverage better than your average PGA tour event. It does all feel a bit empty without the history and prestige of numerous tour events. I did find the team championship pretty compelling, Brysons reaction seemed very genuine. For a socially awkward guy he probably really benefits from having teammates.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0kPacsuly0/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
MAGA
MAGA
AustinCountyAg said:
Everyone bagging on LIV and there tour deals needs to stfu and realize that even the 2019 masters when Tiger won the ratings still in sucked in the grand scheme of things. a regular slap fight NFL game draws over twice as many viewers as masters. Nobody watches the PGAT regardless. Hence why nbc and cbs are getting rid of all the on air talent. It's already a sinking ship with sponsors losing their asses. LIV golf backed by Saudi money. Is here to stay whether you like it or not. Which is why Jay went in agreement with them. PGAT and it financials are crap.
Literally nobody is arguing that PGA tour viewership is through the roof.
LIV is here to stay? If that's so then why are the Saudis trying to get rid of it?
Whether or not LIV is here to stay is one question.
But there is no doubt at this point the Saudis will be the major stakeholder in professional golf (maybe through LIV, maybe another model), and probably a lot of other sports in the next decade.
Another irritating part is the smugness of Norman, Phil, etc like it's some innovative idea they had that's working. No man, you got a few billion dollars to basically light on fire. Anybody could have pulled off what they have to this point with that financial backing, and probably could've made a significantly more interesting product in the process.
But there is no doubt at this point the Saudis will be the major stakeholder in professional golf (maybe through LIV, maybe another model), and probably a lot of other sports in the next decade.
Another irritating part is the smugness of Norman, Phil, etc like it's some innovative idea they had that's working. No man, you got a few billion dollars to basically light on fire. Anybody could have pulled off what they have to this point with that financial backing, and probably could've made a significantly more interesting product in the process.
That last paragraph, undoubtedly yes.
Also, comparing PGA to NFL is silly
NBA Finals don't get to regular season nfl viewership.
NBA Finals don't get to regular season nfl viewership.
The Tour's biggest screw up is they somehow didn't recognize that they were sitting at a poker table with $500 in chips and the PIF sat down with $100,000 and was going to force them to go all-in every single hand if they wanted to play. You gotta recognize when you're in that situation and they apparently didn't. In that sense, PIF out-maneuvered them but it's not some brilliant negotiation tactic. They have the luxury to money-whip that the Tour doesn't.
At this point, I just hope this brings them both back to the table to finalize an agreement. The alternative is fractured golf for God knows how long.
At this point, I just hope this brings them both back to the table to finalize an agreement. The alternative is fractured golf for God knows how long.
You have the smugness in the wrong place. The Saudis approached the PGAT years before LIV asking to invest as well as start a regional minor league in the middle east like the PGAT had done numerous other places including China. They were going to bring modern sports leagues to the kingdom and they wanted to do it the PGAT's way and let them set the direction.aggiegolfer2012 said:
Another irritating part is the smugness of Norman, Phil, etc like it's some innovative idea they had that's working. No man, you got a few billion dollars to basically light on fire. Anybody could have pulled off what they have to this point with that financial backing, and probably could've made a significantly more interesting product in the process.
The smugness that was the PGAT failed leadership told them to F-off. So they took the money they were going to invest and used it to put them out of business instead. You want to not like someone, you can direct that at the PGAT leadership whos arrogance and stupidity pissed off people that could help them or end them.
Don't know if it would be possible but a world tour where the top 100 guys play a tournament a month plus the majors would be cool. You would have tournaments all over the world so during our winter they would play Australia. guys not in the top 100 play PGAT and DP events still getting OWGR points with a chance to move in to the top 100. Purses on the PGAT would be reduced of course because the top dogs aren't there. The top 100 guys can still play PGAT or DP events to maintain their ranking. Don't know if that would ever work but anyway.
Probably the same heathens that think Lebron is better than Jordan.Quote:
They may not get it right but they're doing things that makes golf more interesting to younger crowds who don't view Tiger as their God
I don't like Norman or the Saudis. That said, I like the shotgun start on the early rounds, but I hate it for the final round. I want the tension of the leader or the chaser having to play through the final finishing holes with the pressure on, as opposed to playing 17 at Sawgrass as their third hole, and finishing up on the 18 handicap, for example.
The team side doesn't move the needle for me at all, but I couldn't name all of the teams or players, either.
And I hate the DJ. Now get off of my lawn.
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