Funky Winkerbean said:

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What would the PGAT do if FedEx decides it doesn't want to be connected anymore because of the way the Saudis treat women and gays? Now imagine every sponsor has concerns and decides we'll do it, but for $2 million less than the last contract. Then, the Saudis kick in the extra money to make up the losses..

Who controls the PGAT at that point?

Not the players.

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I doubt that. Because if you weren't just making up fiction to help your bias you'd realize FedEx has no problem with Saudi Arabia. And apparently neither does many of the sponsors of the PGAT. So if the PGAT really doesn't want anything to do with the Kingdom they need to walk the walk. But please continue the fake moral high ground of the PGAT for botching this and screwing themselves and the players.

https://newsroom.fedex.com/newsroom/meisa-english/fedex-express-to-invest-more-than-sar-1-5-billion-in-saudi-arabia

"There are about 23 PGA Tour partners today that have ties to the multibillion-dollar business in Saudi Arabia.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Getting in bed with a despotic regime who was ready to spend billions to annihilate you on a whim sounds like awesome advice. Surely that would have worked out well

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Maybe they should have asked their sponsors including their title sponsor since it appears they think it's a great idea. Or are they business idiots as well?

I'm sure you're right. This mess is because of the PGAT.

AgLA06 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Getting in bed with a despotic regime who was ready to spend billions to annihilate you on a whim sounds like awesome advice. Surely that would have worked out well

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Maybe they should have asked their sponsors including their title sponsor since it appears they think it's a great idea. Or are they business idiots as well?

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What else do you think they would PUBLICLY say?

south park did an episode that i think sums up this lawsuit pretty well:

I'm guessing Reed is the turd sandwich?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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AgLA06 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Getting in bed with a despotic regime who was ready to spend billions to annihilate you on a whim sounds like awesome advice. Surely that would have worked out well

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Maybe they should have asked their sponsors including their title sponsor since it appears they think it's a great idea. Or are they business idiots as well?

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What else do you think they would PUBLICLY say?

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I wouldn't have expected competent business men who represent a billion dollar entity to public state a country in which most of their sponsor money does business to be evil. That doesn't seem smart or in the players best interest. Probably why there's news leaking out that the players and sponsors are growing unhappy at the moment.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how is business?

If only you were as smart as you think you are. You've successfully blamed everyone except the LIV.

That's like me pointing out you've blamed everyone but the PGAT for the current predicament of the PGAT.

Why would I blame LIV? If the goal is to grow the game in your region and the biggest entity in the industry colludes with everyone else to stop that, the only option is to do it yourself.

I don't like that the top talent is now fractured at all, but that was the PGAT choice. And I despise how they've handled the entire situation and especially the messaging. I'd much rather they worked with Suadi to make a regional tour like they wanted that would have kept them out of the US market.

None of that changes where we are today.

PGAT has history and a well defined way of doing things that tailored to their over 40 target market.
LIV has to do more to try and be relevant and I like a lot of the things they've done. It's more enjoyable to watch. I've never understood how football players can play in 100K stadiums going nuts in a fun environment, but we have announcers whispering in a booth several hundred yards from the action in golf. And the PGAT is surprised the younger generation isn't interested in the sport?

I don't need music blaring like they did at the last tournament, but the fact players were actually bobbing their heads and not whining about it was pretty refreshing. A fun atmosphere not resembling a funeral means I can actually take my kids to a tournament and not worry when they act like kids and don't whisper. You know, because I actually would like them interested in golf.

Work on your reading comprehension

Quote:

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That's like me pointing out you've blamed everyone for the PGAT for the current predicament of the PGAT.

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I've blamed the LIV for causing this, and only provided a reasonable explanation for why the tour is responding the way it is. It's business. The tour has a brand and it is acting aggressively to protect that brand as any organization would. I'm sorry you can't understand that. Why anyone supports what LIV is doing is beyond me. Yes, I want the game to reach new heights, but not on the backs of the royal family. The truth is the game will be very hard pressed to grow without another Tiger Woods to propel it. It was in a down cycle when Tiger came on the scene and it's probably heading down without him. It's natural.

Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

The truth is the game will be very hard pressed to grow without another Tiger Woods to propel it. It was in a down cycle when Tiger came on the scene and it's probably heading down without him. It's natural.

Truth. I offer up this highly scientific algorithm-based evidence: When you go to espn.com home page looking for the golf page to click through to, the heading banner offers NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer, NCAAF and LLWS. You have to click on the triple dot 'more' link, and then are offered a vast menu of 'lesser' sports to link to. The 'golf' link is buried amongst other links like F-1, NBA g-league and Olympic Sports.

I remember this very well. Reed played by the rules and holy Chamblee accused him of cheating. Chamblee is like a preacher. He should go to church and apply his skills there.

Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

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Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

CyclingAg82 said:

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Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

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Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

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This has already been argued to death on the other thread but once again, exactly how would the tour nip this in the bud? How were they supposed to counter 9 figure signing bonuses? Be specific.

JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

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Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

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This has already been argued to death on the other thread but once again, exactly how would the tour nip this in the bud? How were they supposed to counter 9 figure signing bonuses? Be specific.

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They could have said we are not suspending you for starters.

One thing LIV does is take care of caddies expenses and lodging. The PGAT says you are on your own.

LIV took a different approach. And I am not absolving Greg Norman in this fiasco, but he wanted a world tour in conjunction with the PGA Tour. Now I read that the PGAT has heard from Tiger about a Tour within a Tour.

https://golf.com/news/report-tiger-woods-meeting-tour-within-tour/

How about that........

LIV wants 14-16 events. Add majors and these guys basically disappear from the PGAT anyway outside of a couple of events. The PGAT had to make it either/or to survive.

The PGAT could do more for the caddies, although I'd point out that the PGAT IS the players, and they could have always chosen to do more for their caddies. And let's be honest, not a single player is making their decision here based on what is happening with the caddies

CyclingAg82 said:

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JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

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Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

---

This has already been argued to death on the other thread but once again, exactly how would the tour nip this in the bud? How were they supposed to counter 9 figure signing bonuses? Be specific.

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They could have said we are not suspending you for starters.

One thing LIV does is take care of caddies expenses and lodging. The PGAT says you are on your own.

LIV took a different approach. And I am not absolving Greg Norman in this fiasco, but he wanted a world tour in conjunction with the PGA Tour. Now I read that the PGAT has heard from Tiger about a Tour within a Tour.

https://golf.com/news/report-tiger-woods-meeting-tour-within-tour/

How about that........

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Well, you completely avoided the 9 figure signing bonuses which were obviously the biggest incentive to get people to come over.

And as Danny said, if you let the players go play a dozen of more LIV events, you just killed the PGAT. No sport can survive having their best players skip half the season.

Stop moving the goal posts. This has been discussed.

LIV only exists because the PGAT refused to discuss the Saudis wanting to promote/ sponsor local tournaments to grow the game locally. Maybe even have a lesser tour eventually like the Asian Tour in conjunction with the PGAT. PGAT wouldn't even listen to them and pressured the DP World Tour to break off talks as well. Out of frustration the Saudis started LIV.

This poor PGAT crap is BS. They're in the bed they choose to make. They wouldn't be having to figure out how to compete with a better financed entity if they hadn't made ****ty business decisions.

AgLA06 said:

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Stop moving the goal posts. This has been discussed.

LIV only exists because the PGAT refused to discuss the Saudis wanting to promote/ sponsor local tournaments to grow the game locally. Maybe even have a lesser tour eventually like the Asian Tour in conjunction with the PGAT. PGAT wouldn't even listen to them and pressured the DP World Tour to break off talks as well. Out of frustration the Saudis started LIV.

This poor PGAT crap is BS. They're in the bed they choose to make. They wouldn't be having to figure out how to compete with a better financed entity if they hadn't made ****ty business decisions.

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And by all accounts, this outreach to "grow the game" appears to have occurred in the wake of Khashoggi's murder. And the media was out to get the Saudis at the time (in large part because Trump refused to alienate them and it was a way to ding him). No sport in their right mind would have teamed up with the Saudis at that time.

I'm moving goalposts? LIV is literally going to 14 next year. You've invented this entire fantasy about growing the game in SA being the first goal, when growing the game in SA is so incredibly important that they are hosting a whopping 1 event there with the billions of dollars they are spending.

These are the types of headlines that MBS was getting in 2019.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734157980/u-n-report-implicates-saudi-crown-prince-in-killing-of-jamal-khashoggi

To suggest it was unconscionable to not want to go into business with him in the midst of that is simply insane. Your arguments were better when you just claimed the Tour failed to keep its players happy. You never substantiated that but at least it was plausible.

I want to grow the game of baseball in South Dallas inner city. So I'm gonna throw a ****-ton of cash at non-Dallas kids to assemble teams and host a bunch of tournaments in Frisco, Southlake, Keller, Prosper, Allen, etc. We will have one tournament in South Dallas though. You know, it's all about growing the game of baseball in South Dallas *wink wink*. I'd never have started this league if the DFW area baseball programs had just let me have some tournaments in South Dallas

JCA1 said:

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These are the types of headlines that MBS was getting in 2019.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734157980/u-n-report-implicates-saudi-crown-prince-in-killing-of-jamal-khashoggi

To suggest it was unconscionable to not want to go into business with him in the midst of that is simply insane. Your arguments were better when you just claimed the Tour failed to keep its players happy. You never substantiated that but at least it was plausible.

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To suggest it's unconscionable to not be to do business with Saudi, but the majority of the tour sponsors ( including the title sponsors) have no problem with it is satire at best.

AgLA06 said:

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JCA1 said:

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These are the types of headlines that MBS was getting in 2019.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734157980/u-n-report-implicates-saudi-crown-prince-in-killing-of-jamal-khashoggi

To suggest it was unconscionable to not want to go into business with him in the midst of that is simply insane. Your arguments were better when you just claimed the Tour failed to keep its players happy. You never substantiated that but at least it was plausible.

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To suggest it's unconscionable to not be to do business with Saudi, but the majority of the tour sponsors ( including the title sponsors) have no problem with it is satire at best.

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You know the difference. Don't pretend you're this obtuse.

If Putin decided today he wanted to grow baseball in Russia, you think MLB should sit down with him and seriously consider partnering with him? Come on. That's ridiculous and they would be crushed if they did. The fact that plenty of companies do business in Russia doesn't change anything.

No lots of companies were pressured and pulled out of Russia.

It's either a moral issue or not. Don't tell people they were too evil to have talks with then take millions of dollars (probably more) from sponsors that do.

AgLA06 said:

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No lots of companies were pressured and pulled out of Russia.

It's either a moral issue or not. Don't tell people they were too evil to have talks with then take millions of dollars (probably more) from sponsors that do.

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We've done this enough and I need to be better about not taking the bait. You think a company that continues to do business in a global economy that includes Saudi Arabia is the exact same thing as going into a new business directly with the head of the Saudi government in the immediate aftermath of him being accused of murder. A business that there is no reason to believe he has any interest in (he doesn't play golf or ever shown any interest in it) other than to improve his current reputation as a murderer. If you can't see that distinction, or how it would result in a PR nightmare, I don't know what else to say. They would have gotten killed in the media. You keep demanding these moral absolutes. News flash, that's not how the world works.

I guess we'll keep disagreeing every time y'all carry the tours latest excuse as to why they're the victims in the situation they chose.

If the tour would have been killed for talking with the Saudis, they would have also been killed for their sponsors doing the same. Just like companies this year with Russia.

JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

---

Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

---

This has already been argued to death on the other thread but once again, exactly how would the tour nip this in the bud? How were they supposed to counter 9 figure signing bonuses? Be specific.

---

They could have said we are not suspending you for starters.

One thing LIV does is take care of caddies expenses and lodging. The PGAT says you are on your own.

LIV took a different approach. And I am not absolving Greg Norman in this fiasco, but he wanted a world tour in conjunction with the PGA Tour. Now I read that the PGAT has heard from Tiger about a Tour within a Tour.

https://golf.com/news/report-tiger-woods-meeting-tour-within-tour/

How about that........

---

Well, you completely avoided the 9 figure signing bonuses which were obviously the biggest incentive to get people to come over.

And as Danny said, if you let the players go play a dozen of more LIV events, you just killed the PGAT. No sport can survive having their best players skip half the season.

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I haven't avoided anything. I know what they got. If you are a start up and have cash, that you are willing to spend. By all means offer it up as an incentive. If I was starting a tech company and wanted to hire the best - probably what I would do. Regardless of where the money comes from...they have it and are willing to spend it.

And one of the major sponsors in Europe of ladies professional tour is Aramco. Where is the outrage?

Double standard anyone?

AgLA06 said:

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I guess we'll keep disagreeing every time y'all carry the tours latest excuse as to why they're the victims in the situation they chose.

If the tour would have been killed for talking with the Saudis, they would have also been killed for their sponsors doing the same. Just like companies this year with Russia.

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I'll grant you this, your grammar is excellent for being born yesterday. Hate to break it to you but people don't always apply the same standards to everything.

If the tour came to you in 2019 and told you that MBS had approached them about partnering and wanted your thoughts on what the response might be, you would have told them "well, The NY Times, the Atlantic, Vox, NPR, etc. aren't writing articles about KPMG continuing to do business there so I'm sure they wouldn't write anything negative about you?" That's what you would have told them?

CyclingAg82 said:

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JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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JCA1 said:

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CyclingAg82 said:

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Duckhook said:

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Not apples-to-apples with Reed's lawsuit, but Reed's attorney certainly had a different viewpoint about LIV 6 months ago.
[url=https://ibb.co/6HzrYpg][/url]

---

Does Reed's lawsuit have anything to do with LIV and him leaving? While I like Brandel, his over the top commentary on Reed and the LIV Tour has really annoyed me.

I am full on board with the PGA Tour, but Jay Monahan could have nipped this in bud instead of slamming the PGA Tour's dick on the table and start the suspension threat. I believe they could have found a way to work together instead the proverbial middle finger to the LIV and the golfers going there.

The Ryder Cup and President's Cup will impacted by the golfers that split.

I hate that it has come to that.

---

This has already been argued to death on the other thread but once again, exactly how would the tour nip this in the bud? How were they supposed to counter 9 figure signing bonuses? Be specific.

---

They could have said we are not suspending you for starters.

One thing LIV does is take care of caddies expenses and lodging. The PGAT says you are on your own.

LIV took a different approach. And I am not absolving Greg Norman in this fiasco, but he wanted a world tour in conjunction with the PGA Tour. Now I read that the PGAT has heard from Tiger about a Tour within a Tour.

https://golf.com/news/report-tiger-woods-meeting-tour-within-tour/

How about that........

---

Well, you completely avoided the 9 figure signing bonuses which were obviously the biggest incentive to get people to come over.

And as Danny said, if you let the players go play a dozen of more LIV events, you just killed the PGAT. No sport can survive having their best players skip half the season.

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I haven't avoided anything. I know what they got. If you are a start up and have cash, that you are willing to spend. By all means offer it up as an incentive. If I was starting a tech company and wanted to hire the best - probably what I would do. Regardless of where the money comes from...they have it and are willing to spend it.

And one of the major sponsors in Europe of ladies professional tour is Aramco. Where is the outrage?

Double standard anyone?

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I never said they weren't free to offer the money. The question was about your assertion that Tour could have nipped it in the bud. How could they have done that considering these astronomical payments? That's the question you're refusing to answer. I highly doubt DJ would have turned down $100 mill if only his caddie had a nicer hotel room. Yet, that's all you've offered.

If I was a player, I would have asked them why it is a problem for us. But not our sponsors? If we're concerned about distancing from potential blowback , then we have a problem taking money from sponsors that do billions of dollars with the same group. It's either a risk or it's not.

Except they didn't have the conversations or perform the due diligence or present it to the players. Which was their obligation.

So it's quite understandable why some of their players are unhappy they find themselves in this mess while the tour plays the victim card.

You keep ignoring this.

LiV only exists because the tour tried to strong arm and embarrass the wrong group. It backfired.

AgLA06 said:

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If I was a player, I would have asked them why it is a problem for us. But not our sponsors? If we're concerned about distancing from potential blowback , then we have a problem taking money from sponsors that do billions of dollars with the same group. It's either a risk or it's not.

Except they didn't have the conversations or perform the due diligence or present it to the players. Which was their obligation.

So it's quite understandable why some of their players are unhappy they find themselves in this mess while the tour plays the victim card.

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Because no one gives a crap about an accounting firm? Good lord. This is not hard. You really think a well known sports league is going to be treated the same as some water treatment company?

And I'm not saying any of this to take a position on what's right or how it should be. I'm just talking about how it is. And organizations in the public eye like sports leagues will be treated different. This is not news.

AgLA06 said:

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You keep ignoring this.

LiV only exists because the tour tried to strong arm and embarrass the wrong group. It backfired.

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I'm not ignoring anything. I agree they played hard ball. And it's still yet to be seen whether it will work out for them. We'll see. What else do you want me to say?