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Wingright, "Salaam" is the Arabic word for peace, it has nothing to do with Islam. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God. I am an Arab and I am a Christian and when I refer to God I would also use the word Allah. By the way, Muslims worship the same God as we do, so Allah is just a word for God.

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Salaam is the ARABIC word for peace. However, peace means something totally different to Muslims. To the western world, peace pretty much means the absence of war or violence. According to Islamic doctrine, there are two kinds of nations.

1) Dar El Harb (or nations who have not surrendered to Islam)

2) Dar Es Salaam (or "nations of peace"..meaning those nations that have been subjugated)

The issue I was pointing out is that Westerners misunderstand what "Salaam" means. It doesn't mean "Hey, lets get along, stop fighting, and find a compromise"...it means "Those people have been conquered and are now Dar Es Salaam"...and have peace through subjugation to Allah.

As far as "allah" being the same God as the Father of Jesus. I respect your opionion, I just disagree.

quote:

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"He [God] does not reveal Himself to anyone in any way. God reveals only His will. Remember one of the prophets asked God to reveal Himself and God told him, "No, it is not possible for Me to reveal Myself to anyone. "...This is God's will and that is all we have, and we have it in perfection in the Qur'an. But Islam does not equate the Qur'an with the nature or essence of God. It is the Word of God, the Commandment of God, the Will of God. But God does not reveal Himself to anyone. Christians talk about the revelation of God Himself - by God of God - but that is the great difference between Christianity and Islam.

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Allah may reference the Father of Jesus to you as an Arab Christian, but IMO, it does not represent the same allah represented by Muslims.

I'll have you know that's my HAREM!!!

I trade you two camels and my insolent daughter for them.

[This message has been edited by ValleyRatAg (edited 2/2/2006 3:36p).]

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why can't they just sit passively by like us and have comfort in knowing that everyone who believes differently that you is going to hell?

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This post is way underrated. In fact, that position is way underrated.

This thread is quality.

quote:

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By the way, Muslims worship the same God as we do, so Allah is just a word for God.

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I'm betting most Muslims would be surprised to find out they worship God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. To Christians there is not one without the other.

Yes to Christians there is not one without the other, but what about Jews? They worship the same God as Christians but they do not embrace Jesus as their savior.

Less talky-talky!

More HOTTIES!!!

[Take a few days off---Texags Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 2/3/2006 1:43p).]

Hey Fellas,

As some of you who post on Texags know I'm a Muslim. I dont post much here on Rivalries but enjoy reading posts and reading a lot of the smak on here directed at one another. There are a whole lot of fu**ed up "Muslims" in this world who have no sense of reality or no sense of being in the 21st century. I promise you we do not sit around and ignore those fu**ed up elements in our religion. We realize its a big problem, and we are trying to deal with it.

I know a lot of you guys probably dont know many Muslims like me, but I promise you we are not all messed up like many of the radicals in the Middle East are. We are normal, law abiding citizens who are just trying to be good Americans.

RAMF and others, I enjoy reading some of the funny stories and smak ya'll lay out there, but I'd just like to extend an invitation for you to learn more about me or my religion and that way maybe you wont hate us as much. I promise, there will be no attempts to convert or pull some Morman or Jehovas Witness type tactics to get you to "see the light". I know I'll probably get panned on here for bringing such a soft post, but I'm not into bringing any heat on people who just may not know enough decent Muslims.

Furthermore, as I've posted on B&P before, any of you guys are welcome to come to any mosque in any of the major cities and sit in and listen to whats being said regarding religion and being a good American as well. If you came, you wouldn't feel left out as there are believe it or not many white, black, Chinese, Asian, Americans there so nobody would even look at you or notice you.

Anyway, I hope this helps some perception, and Gig 'Em

quote:

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but what about Jews? They worship the same God as Christians but they do not embrace Jesus as their savior.

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The bible is pretty clear about the no-Jesus folks
I
I
I
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[This message has been edited by ttechguy (edited 2/2/2006 7:27p).]

[to coachfranisgod]

[This message has been edited by West Horn (edited 2/2/2006 3:57p).]

"1) Dar El Harb (or nations who have not surrendered to Islam)

2) Dar Es Salaam (or "nations of peace"..meaning those nations that have been subjugated)"

So far we look a lot like their idea of Number 1. Let's see...since they started this crap they have lost Afganistan and Iraq and the west has it's focus on Iran next. What's the islamic word for progress...buttkicked?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others!"
Groucho

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Muslims are just going too far now!

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Now?? 9-11 wasn't too far?? The kidnappings and beheadings weren't too far??

Step in my mosque and you will make internet tv.

coachfran,

Due to the nature of my work, I debate the issue of the radicalization of Islam (really happened in the 10th century) on this site quite often. Obviously many of the things I have to say about Islam are not complimentary, and I have no problem being honest about it. I don't wish to attack you personally, as I don't know the first thing about you, but simply stated, actions speak louder than words. When you say...

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I promise you we do not sit around and ignore those fu**ed up elements in our religion. We realize its a big problem, and we are trying to deal with it.

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What specifically are you as Muslims doing? Why is it that for every anti-Israel/anti-American/anti-Western protest we see are there not 10 pro-American demonstrations on the streets of American cities?

quote:

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I know a lot of you guys probably dont know many Muslims like me, but I promise you we are not all messed up like many of the radicals in the Middle East are. We are normal, law abiding citizens who are just trying to be good Americans.

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At work I have recently been studying the practice of Sufi Islam in greater Somalia and Ethiopia. So I do realize that there are more moderate and Westernized segments of the Islamic world (especially in the U.S.). However, they are not on the move to combat terrorism and are remaining silent, which makes their intentions dubious at best, IMO. I would enjoy a spirited debate (no pun intended) on the issue, but respect your post.

Coachfran,

I am a bit over the top. The only hate I carry, is for the Wahabists and radicals (and I do utterly disdain them and those who passively or actively support them).

My 3-year old daughter's caregiver when I travel is Muslim. Their family is from Kashmir originally and their entire family is considered family to mine and vice versa. Our daughter stays with them sometimes and my wife and I have enjoyed spending time with them over meals and family functions. My daughter is learning two languages, Erdu from their daughter and Arabic from the mother. I have family in Arabia, and am fascinated with Islam, albeit my interest and reading have been predominantly driven by research into radicals. Now the interest is broadening to understand implications of Western custom on traditional Islamic institutions like marriage. I have spent hours discussing arranged marriage with their daughter who is an excellent college student. All in all, great people, who I love like they were my own blood.

You are right, should have chosen my comments much better, was out of line.

My apologies.



"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

- George Orwell

The allahfans.com posts need to keep coming...

Come on rivalries.... step up and do not let this thread die (although if it did, it would get 72 new usernames).

We love you too Ramf.

Allahfans.com is money though.



"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

- George Orwell

RAMF... somehow words of kindness and repentance do not sound right coming out of your piehole.

Mix in a few gak references and growler stories next time you start feeling sensitive.

RamshornDubai here. You infidels can't recruit worth a camel hockey. After we run Israel into the sea, we're coming for you next. Your women and children. How much for the little girl?

Uva Uvum Vivendo Varia Fit

What could've happened, did. - Dan Jenkins

Sumus Tejas - -12@6:42; +3@0:00

This is last post today as I am rookie. Suicide burqua blast stile. Enjoy you pig eating multifaced god worhipping infidels.


[This message has been edited by mustaf_herod_apyur_poupr (edited 2/2/2006 4:33p).]

WingRight,

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What specifically are you as Muslims doing?

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The thing that comes to mind first is the stress and importance now being placed in the Mosque on being a good American. By our own religious laws, we are required to be loyal to the land and government we live in first and foremost. Rather then history being taught in a sense of myths and legends, history is being taught from a perspective of historians such as John Espisito and others.

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Why is it that for every anti-Israel/anti-American/anti-Western protest we see are there not 10 pro-American demonstrations on the streets of American cities?

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We have had rallies in Houston, and in Washington. every May in Washington since 9/11 there has been a pro-American rally to condemn terror and radical elements of the religion. Things like this will take time for more to happen because the younger generation of Muslims is mobilizing itself and weeding out old school thought which had no concern for letting others know we arent bad people. As time goes by, it will happen and I know because its already happening. A lot more then it did before.

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At work I have recently been studying the practice of Sufi Islam i

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Just as a note, I have several family members who have converted to this form of Islam, and its the fastest growing sect within Islam I believe.

quote:

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However, they are not on the move to combat terrorism and are remaining silent, which makes their intentions dubious at best, IMO

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We are on the move to combat terrorism. In our Mosque several people have worked closely with the FBI in an effort to help the Feds in tracking down these menaces. Fortunately, the incident level is pretty non existent (in Houston at least). Also, the people doing the sermons have continuously stressed the evils of terrorism and things like suicide bombings. There was a thread on B&P yesterday about it, but suicide is not allowed under any circumstances and to take someone innocent with you is so far beyond a sin I dont even know how to explain it.

Anyway, I hope I shed some light.

Thanks RAMF, and I seriously do laugh a lot reading your non religion related posts.

[This message has been edited by coachfranisgod (edited 2/2/2006 4:35p).]

CoachFranIsGod...

...I retract my previous "F*$* Islam F*#& Muslims" comment.

I insert "F*#& all Muslims accept for those who are Aggie Football Fans."

If all in Iran Muslims in Iran would wear 12th Man T-Shirts my opinion of them would rise 10 fold.

I was in the Nation of Islam for 30 years. They kicked me out for skimming money from bean pie sales 2 years ago. Dammit. I loved wearing those bow ties.

WhoDat:

I've been to Iran and we have a screwed up situation dealing with them. All of the young people (35 and younger) are so Pro American it just totally baffles me.

Yet, somehow (through corruption or otherwise) they've elected this complete whackjob a-hole as their leader.

I feel bad for the people of Iran, but at the same time I wanna how this guy got elected. So many young persons I met there is a ProAmerican, party going, rock n roll listening (all of it underground of course for risk of being tried and thrown in jail) dude or dudette and it just makes no sense.

[This message has been edited by coachfranisgod (edited 2/2/2006 4:40p).]

I really don't want to lump them all in one catagory...I have no doubt that there are many great human beings in Iran. Their leadership, however, gets all the press.

Thanks for having a good sense of humor.

Wow, this thread really went serious.

CoachFranisgod, thank you for your words. I hope that the true followers of your religion can put an end to those who terrorize our world.

It's been going on for almost 2000 years...ain't gonna change anytime soon.

coachfran,

Couple of questions...

quote:

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By our own religious laws, we are required to be loyal to the land and government we live in first and foremost. Rather then history being taught in a sense of myths and legends, history is being taught from a perspective of historians such as John Espisito and others.

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When you speak of "religious laws" do you mean Sharia law? I'm almost certain that a Muslims first duty is to respect the will of allah as laid down in the koran, and then the hadith. Maybe the mosque you attend is waaayyyy different than the ones I have studied...I'd ask you to further explain that if you would.

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We have had rallies in Houston, and in Washington. every May in Washington since 9/11 there has been a pro-American rally to condemn terror and radical elements of the religion.

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How many Muslims are living in the U.S.? We need to see tens of thousands protesting terrorism...not 10s or hundreds. And since 9/11 those seem to have tapered off. Again, raises suspicions about the sincerity of those gatherings.

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Things like this will take time for more to happen because the younger generation of Muslims is mobilizing itself and weeding out old school thought which had no concern for letting others know we arent bad people. As time goes by, it will happen and I know because its already happening. A lot more then it did before.

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No. Needs to happen NOW. Needed to happen over 4 years ago. If necessary, you and your mosque need to train yourselves and travel to fight radical Muslims overseas, the way radical Muslims fight anyone who opposes them. Anything else is really lip service, IMO.

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Just as a note, I have several family members who have converted to this form of Islam, and its the fastest growing sect within Islam I believe.

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From what I know on the subject, Sufis represent less than 5 percent of all Muslims and are viewed as heretics by Shia and Sunni traditionalists alike. Sufiism may be growing at a fast rate in relation to it's own size, but not in relation to young Muslims in Indonesia and the Gulf States.

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We are on the move to combat terrorism. In our Mosque several people have worked closely with the FBI in an effort to help the Feds in tracking down these menaces. Fortunately, the incident level is pretty non existent (in Houston at least).

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Again, you guys need to go WORK for the FBI as translators...Serve your country AND protect your faith. Answering a list of 20 questions doesn't necessarily do the trick. Second, go find militant Islam where it breeds and KILL it. If what you say is true, aren't they the real infidels? Half measures won't do here.

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Also, the people doing the sermons have continuously stressed the evils of terrorism and things like suicide bombings. There was a thread on B&P yesterday about it, but suicide is not allowed under any circumstances and to take someone innocent with you is so far beyond a sin I dont even know how to explain it.

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I'd like to see the text from the Koran that prohibits this. Again, thank you for trying to provide your side of the story.

WingRight:

I'm gonna go to work , but I will be back to address your questions. I just dont want you to think I'm ignoring you. Be back later tonight.

coachfran,

I'm interested to see what you have to say. If I don't reply tonight (I have to be at work at 5 AM EST tomorrow), I'll pull the thread up and reply tomorrow. Due to substance, staff may move it to another board, however.