I would also estimate that 100% of them use emergency room services for regular medical care and then pay for none of it.

Im sure you have a source for your conservative 75% there grego because I seriously doubt that anybody would be complaining about mexicans taking jobs away from americans if they were all being paid under the table. Any business that does so is taking advantage of the workers and cheating the gov't out of money. I would bet the majority of the janitors that just got a raise at A&M are illegal or children of illegals.

I use emergency room care and don't pay for it, plus maxed out 10 credit cards and bought a car, took out 30,000 in students loans, then filed for bankruptcy. Thank God I'm a citizen, getting to leech off the rest of you hard working people....the legal way.

Edit...use a sarcastic voice when reading

[This message has been edited by BahaMut (edited 7/3/2005 10:26p).]

Congratulations on being more of a jackass than a leeching Mexican illegal alien.

God Bless The USA

BahaMut,

you are a citizen of this country, and if you did in-fact do those things, you can be rest assured you won't ever be able to buy a home or even a nice car with your credit. There are plenty of people like you that the average hard working taxpayer has to support. We certainly don't need hundreds of thousands more coming over contributing to the tax burden. I understand that there probably isn't anything I can tell you that is going to change your opinion about illegal workers in this country.

That still does not change the fact that we have a serious border problem. As I already stated, over a quarter of the federal prison population is made up of illegal immigrants. So more than 1 in 4 convicts in our prisons are illegal that should have never been in this country in the first place. Your hard-working illegal workers aren't footing the bill for that tax burden.

More importantly, there is the issue of terrorism. I talked to four border patrol agents that recently told me that almost all of the FBI drug forces on the border have been reassigned to terrorist duties. These guys claimed that finding Middle Eastern paraphernalia in South Texas is a very common practice and went into detail on some of the busts they've made--- including a group of people that have sent over 1.2 million dollars back to Syria and another group that had pictures of refineries in Corpus Christi.

Every one of those guys collect assault weapons because of what they see in their line of duty. Now, you may think that they are a bunch of radicals, but there are many others that feel the same. The problem is too many Americans have no idea that these things are going on.

BahaMut, I don't so much care about the guy that is working as a laborer doing jobs that Americans won't do. But, I do care about the safety of my family and the citizens of this country. And I do care about people coming over to milk the system (which many illegals are doing).

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I use emergency room care and don't pay for it, plus maxed out 10 credit cards and bought a car, took out 30,000 in students loans, then filed for bankruptcy

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Lemme guess, North Dallas resident?

Post edited to include sarcasm

Even the gov't admits there is no proof of terrorists entering the US through Mexico. That is why you will not see any border patrol official publicly announce what you have claimed. The 9-11 terrorists were all here legally to begin with. The gov't knows with these immigrants many businesses would fail, the farming industry would suffer. Thats why they don't support the minutemen, and are lax in confronting the immigration issue. Im more afraid of these militant radicals stocking up on guns more than I am of the thought of an arab swimming across the rio grande with a nuke strapped to his back.

[This message has been edited by BahaMut (edited 7/3/2005 10:42p).]

This whole line about them (illegals) taking jobs most Americans won't is crap. How about this, stop wellfare and kick the illegals out. All of them. Then who do you think will take all of these jobs? Problem solved.

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Then who do you think will take all of these jobs?

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The blacks and Jews!

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Even the gov't admits there is no proof of terrorists entering the US through Mexico. That is why you will not see any border patrol official publicly announce what you have claimed. The 9-11 terrorists were all here legally to begin with. The gov't knows with these immigrants many businesses would fail, the farming industry would suffer. Thats why they don't support the minutemen, and are lax in confronting the immigration issue. Im more afraid of these militant radicals stocking up on guns more than I am of the thought of an arab swimming across the rio grande with a nuke strapped to his back.

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No, border patrol officials cannot publically comment on these issues. Just like they cannot go in and arrest an illegal while they are working without probable cause. Just because the government isn't announcing it or it's not on a national news network, doesn't mean it isn't happening. As for the minutemen, all of the guys I talked to are ready to welcome them with open arms. I find it disturbing that some people are more worried about our border patrol or the minutemen when their real worries should be the people that are out to do our country harm.

What would your solution be?

I'd like to know where your source is claiming that the US says that there is no threat of terrorists crossing our borders...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24987

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'Arab terrorists'
crossing border
Middle Eastern illegals find easy entrance into U.S. from Mexico

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By J. Zane Walley
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

COCHISE COUNTY, Ariz. -- The U.S.-Mexican border here is the most heavily used corridor for illegal alien traffic on America's southern boundary. With its difficult topography that is folded, creased and convoluted, it is a land that yields well to smuggling. The Huachuca, Chiricahua, Dragoon and Whetstone Mountains are riddled with hundreds of deep canyons, caves and arroyos that offer superb concealment for the hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens that annually cross here.

The numbers of unauthorized immigrants smuggled across this porous border dumbfound the imagination. To date, the U.S. Border Patrol has apprehended 158,782 illegals in 2001. By the Border Patrol's own admission, it catches one alien in five, and admits that around 800,000 have slipped across the U.S. line this year. The local ranchers, who have been watching the border for several generations, strongly disagree. They contend the agency only nets one in 10, and estimate that in 2001 over 1.5 million unlawful immigrants have crossed into America in what the Border Patrol calls the Tucson Sector.

Many border ranch-owners are validly apprehensive of speaking about their desperate situations because of likely retribution by narco-militarists (drug runners) and coyotes (smugglers of humans). Unsolved murders and arsons are alarmingly ordinary in Cochise County, so pure fear keeps locals from speaking on the record.



Line of illegals moving across a ranch on the Cochise County, Ariz.-Mexican border. Photo by Donald Barnett, Bisbee, Ariz.


The foot traffic is so heavy that the backcountry has the ambience of a garbage dump and smells like an outdoor privy. In places, the land is littered a foot deep with bottles, cans, soiled disposable diapers, sanitary napkins, panties, clothes, backpacks, human feces, used toilet paper, pharmacy bottles and syringes (the drug runners inject stimulants to keep their energy up).

U.S. Border Patrol agents are doing the best they can, considering their sparse numbers and the impossible terrain they patrol in four-wheel-drive vehicles, quad-runners and on foot. Agents of the Border Patrol have their other fears besides being ambushed by rock-chucking illegals and confrontations with assault-rifle-armed narcos: They are not allowed to speak about what they cope with each day.

As one agent who spoke anonymously said, "Look, I can tell you a lot of stories, but I have to remain unnamed or I will be blackballed and might lose my job." Then, worriedly, he added, "I have a family depending on me."

Another agent, of supervisory rank, stated, "The smuggling traffic of Mexicans has really slowed. We are experiencing a tremendous increase in OTMs" – border lingo for "other than Mexicans." When queried about the ethnic make up of the OTMs, he answered, "Central and South Americans, Orientals and Middle-Easterners." Middle-Easterners? "Yeah, it varies, but about one in every 10 that we catch, is from a country like Yemen or Egypt."

Border Patrol spokesperson Rene Noriega stated that the number of other-than-Mexican detentions has grown by 42 percent. Most of the non-Mexican migrants are from El Salvador and other parts of Central America, she said, but added that agents have picked up people from all over the world, including the former Soviet Union, Asia and the Middle East.



Pick-up truck load of mixed-nationality illegals destined for Tucson or Phoenix, Ariz. Once in those cities, an organized pipeline disburses them across America. The "trucking" is generally handled by street gangs. Photo by Donald Barnett, Bisbee, Ariz.

Arabs have been reported crossing the Arizona border for an unknown period. Border rancher George Morgan encounters thousands of illegals crossing his ranch on a well-used trail. He relates a holiday event: "It was Thanksgiving 1998, and I stepped outside my house and there were over a hundred 'crossers' in my yard. Damnedest bunch of illegals I ever saw. All of them were wearing black pants, white shirts and string ties. Maybe they were hoping to blend in," he chuckled. "They took off, I called the Border Patrol, and a while later, an agent, Dan Green, let me know that they had caught them. He said that they were all Iranians."

According to Border Patrol spokesperson Rob Daniels, "Ten Egyptians were arrested recently near Douglas, Arizona. Each had paid $7,000 to be brought from Guatemala into Mexico and then across the border."

According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, hours after the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, an anonymous caller led Mexican immigration agents to 41 undocumented Iraqis waiting to cross into the United States.

The Associated Press reported that Mexican immigration police detained 13 citizens of Yemen on Sept. 24, 2001, who were reportedly waiting to cross the border into Arizona. The Yemenis were arrested Sunday in Agua Prieta, across the border from Douglas. Luis Teran Balaguer, assistant head of immigration in the northern state of Sonora, said, "The evidence indicates that they have nothing to do with terrorist activities."



Group of unauthorized immigrants take a rest break on a trail that winds across the Barnett ranch near Douglas, Ariz. Amateur photographer Donald Barnett alerted the Border Patrol and was there for the bust. He noted, "There were people in this batch from Brazil, Salvador, Costa Rica and some Arab countries."

The Agua Prieta, Mexico newspaper, El Ciarin, clearly did not agree with Balaguer's assessment. The editor, Jose Noriega Durazo, claimed in a front-page El Ciarin headline, "ESTUVIERON AQUI TERRORISTAS ARABES!" (The Arab terrorists were here!) El Ciarin quoted Agua Prieta police officials as identifying the 13 Yemenis as terrorists. Reportedly, the Mexican immigration police returned the Yemenis to a federal detention center near Mexico City, but new information would indicate that they were "released" and returned to Agua Prieta.

Carlos X. Carrillo, assistant chief U. S. Border Patrol, Tucson Sector, told WorldNetDaily in a telephone interview Monday that nine Yemenis were reportedly holed up in a hotel in the border town of Agua Prieta, Sonora, Mexico, across the border from Douglas, Ariz.

"We have passed this tip to the FBI," said Carrillo.

When pressed for more information, he said he could not confirm the number of OTMs or Middle-Easterners apprehended while crossing the American/Mexican border. "We are under OP/SEC and cannot divulge this," the chief said. (OP/SEC is a counter-intelligence acronym for operations security.)

A Border Patrol field patrol agent, who spoke anonymously, confirmed the presence of the nine Yemenis. The agent said, "They can't get a coyote to transport them and they are offering $30,000 per person with no takers."

On Oct. 12, a Mexican national, associated with the hotel in Agua Prieta, abandoned it and moved to Arizona -- to hide out. Speaking on condition of anonymity, he told WND: "There were 13 Arabs there when I left. They were paying the coyotes 30 to 50,000 bucks, apiece, to transport them safely into the U.S. I became so frightened I left. They are genuinely bad hombres." Since Carrillo had reported only nine Arabs at the hotel, it is unclear if the missing five Yemenis made it into the U.S. as reported.



Like most ranching families on the Arizona-Mexico border, the Winklers live behind protective bars. "We are having steel gates like this made for all our doors." says Doris Winkler as she peers through an armored entrance. "We never know what kinda people will try to bust in our home." Photo provided by the Paragon Foundation.

Potential terrorists, stealing across the border, had been predicted well in advance of the World Trade Center disaster. In a May 1, 2000, Report to Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives, the General Accounting Office reported, "Alien smuggling is a significant and growing problem. Some are smuggled as part of a criminal or terrorist enterprise that can pose a serious threat to U.S. national security."

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., in an Oct. 9 speech to the House of Representatives, stated, "It's almost incredible to recognize, as part of the overall strategy this government is going to employ to deal with the issue of terrorism, that we would not concentrate heavily on securing our borders and try to do everything humanly possible to stop people, who have evil intent, from coming into the United States."

Terrorists are well aware that the 4,000-mile border between the U.S. and Mexico is easy to cross, with its vast unmonitored stretches. Their crossing directly into Arizona is of special concern. Arizona appears to have been the home of a "sleeper cell" of Osama bin Laden's worldwide terrorist organization, with a select group of operatives living quietly in bland apartment complexes and obtaining flight training, in preparation for the Sept. 11 attack. The organization's known history in the state goes back nine years. Terror experts say the activities of at least three part-time Arizona residents fit the pattern of the al-Qaida terrorist network.

Sealing the border is a daunting task. Perhaps the most valuable asset that the Border Patrol has is the aid of rural Cochise County citizens. Many have attempted to help, in accordance with Arizona law. Through that legal process, landowners may execute a citizen's arrest for individuals or groups trespassing on their property. However, even that has been nullified. The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, backed by the American and Mexican media, have characterized citizens who have legally detained aliens as "racist xenophobic vigilantes."



Not a cattle or game trail, but a well-defined human path across the IGO ranch. Photo provided by the Paragon Foundation.

Rural citizens here have met with savage recriminations for exerting their legal rights. Immigration advocacy groups howl in protest, as does the Mexican government. Their lawyers have demanded that the ranchers be prosecuted for false arrest, kidnapping, intimidation, criminal assault and violation of civil rights – anything lawyers can come up with to advance their clients' interests. Illegal immigrants have now sued some Cochise County citizens in American courts.

Ben Anderson, a retired U.S. Army colonel who lives in Sierra Vista, Ariz., has made a detailed study of the border danger since the flood of illegals began through Cochise County in 1997.

"There is only one way to handle this," the colonel says firmly. "In a world now filled with biowarfare agents, backpack nuclear devices and chemical weapons like Sarin gas, we must militarize the border. There is no other way to stop the flow."

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http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041013-121643-5028r.htm

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/33442.php

http://members.cox.net/borderreport/guerrilla.html

[This message has been edited by aggierogue (edited 7/3/2005 11:40p).]

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju59872.000/hju59872_0f.htm

Here's a good source for the crimerates of illegals.

I would like to know what are people's feelings towards the homeless when compared to this situation?

The same health care system that provides for illegal immigrants also provides for the homeless. On one side, (as previously stated) despite a high number of illegal immigrants ending up incarcerated, other illegal immigrants are at least providing some service.

Does being a citizen of this country provide them the right to also be a burden on society, in light of the fact that they are given the same opportunities as all the other citizens and have no language barrier to overcome?

*Note that I am in no way trying to imply that we should learn any immigrants native language but simply using the language issue as an example of one of the many things incoming illegal immigrants have to deal with, besides being here illegally*

Also, what about the legal immigrents that US allows, are they ok?

P.S. Football season CANNOT get here soon enough!!!

neomoon. The homeless is a whole other issue. They are citizens of this country, and we have an obligation to do something about them (if for anything, to maintain and promote a healthy society). Not to mention many of the homeless have mental disorders. I don't necessarilly agree with our welfare system either.

Here's an example. If you had a child that was mentally handicapped, most likely you would feel obligated to parent and take care of them. But, you aren't going to go out and take care of all your neighbor's children. Why? Because, they are not yours, and it's not practical for you to take care of everyone else's problems. This is the premise behind my argument. Although we are sympathetic to others' problems outside of our country, we should take care of our problem in-house first (barring a major crisis outside our borders). Btw, I understand that we are a world power, and we are obligated to step up in certain situations.

The bottom line is that our border problem needs to be tended to. Instead of comparing it to other problems, or rationalizing about what illegals do to positively impact our country, why aren't we just saying it needs to be fixed. How is this different than any other law being broken?

My argument on illegals is the threat they pose on our national security as well as the burden of our economy. If those things are not important to you, then whose interests are you really looking out for?

[This message has been edited by aggierogue (edited 7/4/2005 12:20a).]

From that same "article"

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Reporter's personal note: "I do not see how the folks living along this border keep going. I am a former U.S. Marine sergeant, and yet the presence of so much apparent violence spooked me. In researching this story, I went backcountry on quad-runners with a goodly couple, Larry and Toni Vance. The first thing they asked me was if I brought a sidearm. When I said, 'no,' they promptly gave me a wheel-gun to strap on. To tell you the truth, that lump of metal was comforting. It's not wise to travel unarmed in a war zone."

J. Zane Walley is a spokesman for the Paragon Foundation, Alamogordo, N.M., which made this article possible. The Paragon Foundation is "dedicated to preserving the constitutional principles established by the Founding Fathers." Citing Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution, Paragon notes: "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union, a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion."

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If that doesn't scream radical paranoia, I don't know what does. I spent my first 18 years living on the border in the valley and El Paso and this guy is just nuts. You only find trouble when you go out looking for it. Do you honestly believe the gov't is trying to cover-up the FLOOD of Arabs jumping fences and swimming across. Supposedly



What the hell is the PARAGON FOUNDATION...that source holds as much water as infowars

[This message has been edited by BahaMut (edited 7/4/2005 12:28a).]

BahaMut,

I'm from South Texas also, but not that south. I had 4 border patrol men (in their late 20's, early 30's) tell me about a lot of the same things as what the article was stating. I just showed you that they are not allowed to comment on these issues publically. Btw, the four guys I talked to were at a wedding in Alice, TX and were hardly the radical militant type. They just told me that they see a lot of things that the public doesn't know about. I gave you two examples. They also talked at length about the paraphernalia that had been found on ranch and farmland. I guess you think that all of this is just one big conspiracy to keep illegal Mexicans from working laborer jobs.

Do a google search if you don't think there is plenty of information on these issues. Btw, most didn't think 911 would be possible before the fact.

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What the hell is the PARAGON FOUNDATION...that source holds as much water as infowars

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Good Lord man, I just gave you five sources that I looked up with a simple search. There are countless others that I did not post. I don't have time to sit and read every article. What are you backing your information up with? Where is your source claiming that our government says there is no proof that terrorists are entering our country through our border(s)?

The black balling allegations and fear of naming names pretty much sums it up. The terrorists were here legally to begin with. Going after Mexicans isn't going to help. There are just some things you can't solve no matter what. We can't have an armed soldier stationed every 100 feet along the Mexican and Canadian Borders. That would pretty much be the only sure way of keeping anybody out. Plus ending all immigration altogether since thats how they get in anyway. More scare tactics brought up by gun hugging, paranoid idiots.

Aggierogue thanks for you reply, your point regarding the countries need to deal with its own citizens is well taken.

However I would also like to know what your views are on legalized immigration?

In the reference to the original letter, I wonder how the people in Victoria will handle the matter tomorrow morning. Their what?...45% Hispanic?

neomoon, I don't have a problem with legal immigration. I think we should be selective, as should any country. I would much rather have people coming over that could provide benefit to the US than vice-versa.

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In the reference to the original letter, I wonder how the people in Victoria will handle the matter tomorrow morning. Their what?...45% Hispanic?

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So, your assumption is that all Hispanics are proponents of breaking the law? We are talking about ILLEGAL immigrants. My argument is not a race war. There are a lot of Hispanics in this country that are good, hard-working people and are an asset to this country.

Btw, I'm not saying I agree with the letter in the original post. As a matter of fact, I disagree with a lot of it (the racial undertones were prevalent). But, I can understand how people become passionate about these issues.

[This message has been edited by aggierogue (edited 7/4/2005 1:24a).]

BTW, Happy 4th of July guys. Hopefully despite the disagreements we all have regarding certain issues, the fact of the matter is that people are giving their lives for this country and other people are risking their lives to come to this country. Simply because this is one great d@mn country.

I would just like to say how grateful I am to this country for simply granting me an opportunity. Despite stereo cast placed upon me because of the actions of my fellow compadres, simply being a productive member in this society (minus the couple of speeding tickets here and there) I am an example of what good can come from immigration.

I usually don’t get this patriotic but it’s the 4th of July and I’m reading one of two threads about similar issues and can’t help but be proud of: who I am, where I came from, where I am now, and who is giving their lives to keep me here.

Thanks and Gig’em &
God Bless the U.S.

back at ya neomoon.

God Bless the USA.

And on that note:


Muck Fexico

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grego
posted 9:56p, 7/3/2005

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I use emergency room care and don't pay for it, plus maxed out 10 credit cards and bought a car, took out 30,000 in students loans, then filed for bankruptcy
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Lemme guess, North Dallas resident?

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Hey grego, you're allright. I was thinking the same thing... the only thing left to determine is if he is a turned up collar North Dallas cheesedick or a gold chain North Dallas cheesedick.

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More scare tactics brought up by gun hugging, paranoid idiots.

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Please, stay naive. This way Sept. 11th can happen again and liberals can blame the govt for not stopping it. If the govt. tries to establish laws to provide better security for our country, the complain. When something bad happens, they complain. If you were a terrorist wanting to come into America where would you try it? Mexico is the most logical answer. 2nd would be through a university.

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13 0 Branding Iron
user level: TexAgs LegendAggiePremium Level Supporter posted 9:20a, 07/04/05this users's public profileedit this replyobject to this reply



quote:grego
posted 9:56p, 7/3/2005

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I use emergency room care and don't pay for it, plus maxed out 10 credit cards and bought a car, took out 30,000 in students loans, then filed for bankruptcy
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Lemme guess, North Dallas resident?

Hey grego, you're allright. I was thinking the same thing... the only thing left to determine is if he is a turned up collar North Dallas cheesedick or a gold chain North Dallas cheesedick.

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Hey. I only maxed out 8credit cards.

Damn, you must look like Mr. T when you have all your gold chains on.