CBS on V Young

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WreckingCrue
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VY is a great college QB BECAUSE he plays for Texas. Texas is a brute on the OL and runs down your throat. VY is lucky to play for a team like that. But the cold reality is that he DOES play for a team like that and he is a perfect fit. This can lead to a player being a great college QB - even one of the best - even though if they played for another team they would struggle.

If VY played on normal D 1 teams where there were not huge lanes and he had to actually sit back and read defenses - he would suck. This is the problem everyone is having. Both parties are right. But the fact remains VY does play for UT and as the UT QB is a freak. He would be below average on most teams. He would be 4th string at TT.

accougars
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Try responding to my post. Seriously, since Vince's life was made so much easier because of CB, how do you explain those numbers?
jrgypsum
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Why even argue, it comes down to this year.

Young IMHO had a better year last year than Reggie.

So, let's see this Fall.
Yahoodie
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[Name calling will get you a long vacation!]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 4/5/2005 8:22p).]
Horn91
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It doesn't take much to piss you guys off. After the amazing Rose Bowl VY had, what did you expect - negative press? Of course VY is going to be hyped going into next year. If Reggie played that way he would get the same treatment.

Aggiez_Legend
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But Reggie would actually do it by throwing the ball sometimes.
PatAg
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anyone that seriously thinks vince is a better passer is a fool..but nobody denies vince can make plays with his feet.
ProdigyDub
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How many verified, true Ags are willing to step up and claim Legend as one of their own?

Let me just put it this way, Legend...were it not for the fact that you are (supposedly) an Ag, and the essential immunity from being made fun of by other Ags that comes with that, Brandi would have been all over you 10 times by now in this thread for lack of football knowledge, cause you have posted some seriously retarded ****.

[This message has been edited by ProdigyDub (edited 4/5/2005 9:54p).]
artemis21
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i am sorry, but why does it matter if he passes a lot as long as he gets the job done??? he can pass when he has to, but most the time he doesn't have to, so why bother??? you guys are way too hung up on that.
Marathon
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quote:
For the article regarding College Football it is dead on, but when talking Pro's Reggie has the distinct advatage IMO.


A definite edge. Reg has proven that he has the tools to play at the next level.
aggiefreak0012
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Preach on legend!
sodiumacetate
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The jealousy displayed in legend's posts is astounding. I say jealousy because that's the only possible explanation for saying so many untrue things on a single thread. Here's just a few of the gems:
quote:
With that team, half the QBs in CF could have made the Rose Bowl. VY singlehandidly lost the OU game and tried very hard to lose 3 others. He actually hurt your team just as often as he helped.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing ever typed. Vince had a bad game against OU (our whole offense did), but every other time we needed him to step up he did. Wins over Tech, OSU, KU, and Michigan would not have been possible without Young. I would love to hear what games you think he tried to lose.
quote:
The point is, VY did not "win" sh*t last year. C-Bong, your great O-Line and your defense won, VY just reaped the rewards of being on a great team.

See Above.
quote:
And the pass he threw for a TD was a duck to a WIDE OPEN WR.

By this statement, I can tell you either didn't watch the game, or don't understand what a good throw is. It was led perfectly over the shoulder of Jeffery (who had a guy draped all over him the entire route) and placed in the only spot where the defender couldn't get to it and it still be caught in bounds.
quote:
And, once again, VY did so well against Michigan because they were so keyed on stopping Benson, which they did, that they allowed VY to run all over them.

Please explain how on a critical third and long, the two guys that had a chance to sack him in the backfield only missed the chance because they were "keying on Benson." There isn't a single other quarterback in college football that could have made them miss on that play. BTW, in case you don't remember the play, both guys had the chance to sack him, one wrapped his arms around him, Vince got by both, and then ran the remaining 14+ yards to the endzone for another 4th quarter touchdown. If you don't think Michigan made adjustments, then why did they have a spy on him the entire 2nd half? Why did he have to break so many tackles and make so many guys miss if all they were doing was looking at Benson?

I mean, you can be wrong all you like if it makes you feel better. It won't change the fact that Young will be just as dominating as he was last year, and will lead Texas to yet another double digit victory over A&M at Kyle.

[This message has been edited by sodiumacetate (edited 4/5/2005 10:21p).]
jcoffman
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You guys are idiots. Chris Simms owned you and you bashed him for not being good enough. Cedric killed you and **** bashed him. Roy Williams owned you and you bashed him. Mack has owned you and he sucks as a head coach. Vince has owned you and yet Vince sucks.
SW1TCH
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I can't stress this one fact enough: Vince has started for One and a half seasons, and Reggie has pleyd for 3 seasons. Yet ags still try to compare stats between the two by giving Reggie that extra year+ experience. If you want to compare stats, look at Vince this year and Reggie last year....
LSU89
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How about a comparison amongst the other QBs playing in BCS bowls this past season?

Final Statistics for QBs 2004 season:

2. Alex Smith (Utah) 67.51%, 2952 yds, 32 TDs, 4 INT, 176.5 rating

3. Jason Campbell (Aub) 69.63%, 2700 yds, 20 TD, 7 INT, 172.9 rating

6. Jason White (OU) 65.38%, 3205 yds, 35 TDs, 9 INT, 159.4 rating

7. Matt Leinart (USC) 65.29%, 3322 yds, 33 TDs, 6 INT, 156.5 rating

33. Tyler Palko (Pitt) 56.23%, 3067 yds, 24 TDs, 7 INT, 135.2 rating

39. Bryan Randall (VT) 55.56%, 2264 yds, 21 TDs, 9 INT, 134.5 rating

42. Chad Henne (Michigan) 60.15%, 2743 yds, 25 TDs, 12 INTs, 132.6 rating

51. Vince Young (Texas) 59.20%, 1849 yds, 12 TDs, 11 INT, 128.4 rating

That said, Young comes in as the #37 rusher in Division I last year with 167 carries for 1079 yards and 14 TDs. That's a 6.5 yd average, and just under 90 yds per game.

He had almost as many rushing yards as Carnell Williams of Auburn on 70 fewer carries, and Young had the most rushing yards of any QB.

Texas had a fantastic year in 2004 due to a tough OL, a monstrous defense, and a pair of great running backs, Benson and Young.
sotexas
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VY had a bad game against OU because we have a bad OC. VY wasn't let loose till after the OU game.

Sure, VY isn't as good as Reggie at passing the ball. But VY is a winner....something Aggiez is clearly so jealous of it's clouding his logic...
navy57
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<< In the Kansas game he made the 4th and 18 play. Not the O-line, not the defense, not Ced, VINCE DID!!!! 4TH and ****ing 18!!! Then VY (the guy whom you all say cant pass threw a pass to Tony Jeffery only where Tony could catch it. >>

1. How did tu wind up having to make a 4th and 18 desperation play? Didn't VY get sacked a couple of times ... to set it up (LOL) ?

2. Was the 4th and 18 play VY made the one that tu's offensive genius, Greg Davis, had sent in to be run? I think not.

3. We've seen QB's who can place the ball where only their receivers can catch it. IMHO VY is not one of them. The completion to Jeffery was more accidental than deliberate.

VY's running success stems directly from his inability to read defenses on passing plays.

In the Rose Bowl game Michigan pretty well slowed down Benson. For reasons that escape me they seemed to ignore VY's tendancy to run ... and always to his right (at first) when he can't find a receiver ... which is much too often for a "complete" QB.

VY is a GREAT, extremely fast runner, but he's a below average passer. Let's see how he does against Ohio State. They'll have a lot of the same team back that BTHO Michigan last year.

Gig 'Em, Aggies !!
Guy on a Buffalo
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This one's a little long but I took my maroon-tinted glasses off to write it so I really do hope all you t-sips read it...

quote:
I can't stress this one fact enough: Vince has started for One and a half seasons, and Reggie has pleyd for 3 seasons. Yet ags still try to compare stats between the two by giving Reggie that extra year+ experience. If you want to compare stats, look at Vince this year and Reggie last year....


Switch, the only reason I don't count this is the fact that Reggie spent all of one season learning an offense his rookie year and then had to completely wipe the slate and start over again when Fran's regime came in. The truth is, our offensive (and defensive for that matter) schemes are a bit complicated for anyone to learn, and once he got them down it was like he was a freshman all over again.

POINT 1: I think of next season as only his second since he wasn't even consistently the starter until last year and had to learn a whole new offense the year before.

quote:
If VY played on normal D 1 teams where there were not huge lanes and he had to actually sit back and read defenses - he would suck.


Maybe, but I believe that if he played for a Pac 10 or ACC team he probably would have won quite a few games for them just with his feet, and possibly with a few passes. The disparity in defensive talent from the Big 12 to any of the lesser conferences is staggering, and I don't think there's anyone who doesn't believe that a stud running back playing QB could wipe up the field with some of those "defenses" out there in D1.

POINT 2: Vince Young's athleticism is definitely a huge advantage, especially against the slower defenses you play. In fact, I believe it may be the difference-maker against Ohio State this year (unless they really planned well) but IMO would rarely be enough to beat a fast and strong SEC or Big 12 defense on its own.

quote:
I would love to hear what games you think he tried to lose.


Well he did a good job trying on T+1, if you ask me. As I recall it was Benson and your defense who won that one against us, despite the goal-line fiasco at the end of the first half. There were other times that he showed his weaknesses and teams were able to take advantage of them, but the other huge strengths on your team bailed him out (but then what are team-mates for?)

POINT 3: Vince made some big mistakes which would take him out of consideration for the Heisman IMO, but because he is part of a ridiculously talented team those mistakes didn't come back to haunt him (except for OU, but you can't blame losing to Stoops on VY).



Here is a big reason he won't do well in the NFL; he just can't seem to get that Swoosh right-side up for the photo-ops. He's going to change a lot of bad habits he's learned under Mack Brown to succeed at any position in the NFL. Eric Crouch was an amazing college QB, but where is he now? Wearing crappy clothes to a Heisman awards show and shucking corn on his daddy's farm.

POINT 4: As an athlete, few come close to Vince Young's talent, at ANY level. However, I believe that NFL coaches and coordinators will be frustrated by his lack of football knowledge and spend many long nights going over film and game plans to get him to where he needs to be.

Final Conclusion: Would I love to have Vince Young playing for the good guys? Absolutely. Would he do better at QB in our system than Reggie? Probably not, we don't have the beasts on the line to protect him. Would Reggie do better in t.u.'s offense? I think so, but only because he's already throwing well with little protection (4 INT's all last season???). If he had your monsters on the OLine protecting him, I think t.u. would be in MNC contention last season.

FXST
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Offshore's original question was can you believe the hype laid on Vince. Sure. If you watched some of the season and all of the Rosebowl, as most writers probably do, you would probably think he was a god. As far as Vince vrs Reggie - Vince will play at the next level - neither will be at qb.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others!"
Groucho
13 0 Branding Iron
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quote:
Young already has been looking at Ohio State film
These were actually cartoons prepared by the ohio state rtv department.







HankHill
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quote:
The completion to Jeffery was more accidental than deliberate.
Possibly the most idiotic thought on a thread of great idiocy.
surf
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good read raging but ohio state isn't exactly a slow defense. aj hawk is a man amongst boys, the d-line is really good and no need to talk about ted ginn's abilities cause i think everbody in america who is a college football fan knows what he can do. they were real young on defense last year and what they did to michigan and okie lite wasn't a fluke. this team is for real so don't take them lightly. and winning at the 'shoe for some reason isn't as easy as it seems.


make that 2 for above

[This message has been edited by surfisle (edited 4/6/2005 8:35a).]
Guy on a Buffalo
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Surf, points taken...and two is done.

Edit: Help me take care of this one too.

quote:
Username: accougars
Number of Posts: 8
Account Created: 4/4/2005 5:25:02 PM


[This message has been edited by raging_agaholic (edited 4/6/2005 8:37a).]
highwayman
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CBS is wrong.
SI is wrong.
ESPN is wrong.
Local papers are wrong.










Aggies are right. Vince Young is possibly the most overrated player in college football history.

Reggie is probably the most underrated in history. I would much rather have Reggie on my team than Vince. I mean, what has Vince proven? Reggie is the clearcut winner here...
Guy on a Buffalo
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Patch, at least give me some credit for a well-thought out post with little bias toward my alma-matter...


































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































...and absolutely no mention of yours.
surf
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i sorta don't feel right about him. he really didn't do anything to warrant an objection. if they post something stupid like the dummy above i get them but if they are posting something that makes sense then i let them slide. sometimes it's a good thing to let some rookies have a chance to prove themselves you know what i mean. if we would have done to pdub then the offseason would really suck. i mean think about it. the phone number deal, the pics the board would suck worse if he wasn't here to give us something to get a laugh out of.
surf
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damn you think you took enough space?
tacking on an extra year
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well played, raging.

______________________________________________________
no longer actually tacking on an extra year. i had to get a real job.

SR90
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Vince is not a good qb, and he will show that this yeaer. He benefitted from having a good OL and a great RB who smokes pot a lot.
deuceswild
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quote:
CB was a great back, but he averged 94 ypg before Vince Young became the starting QB for Texas. Since VY has been the starting QB, CB has averged 164 ypg. CB's yards per carry went up as well. I don't know what any of that means, but it seems to directly contradict the broad unsubstantiated BS that you just put out there with not fact behind it whatsoever.

Try responding to my post. Seriously, since Vince's life was made so much easier because of CB, how do you explain those numbers?
I'll bite.

During Cedric Benson's freshman and sophomore years, Chris Simms was the QB of the team. Texas had Roy Williams, B.J. Johnson, and Sloan Thomas at WR. The offensive stars of the team were at QB and WR. The coaches knew this and ran a PASSING offense. Cedric Benson was just a complementery player in this offense, because he was about the 4th or 5th most important offensive player, and the real success of the team depended on Simms, Roy, etc. When Simms graduated and those WRs only having one year left, Benson became the star of the team. Mack shifted to a more balanced, running team centered around Benson. When Young beat out Chance Mock, and there was no longer a passing threat on the team, they shifted to a run-heavy team.

I think those changes in Benson's numbers have a little to do with Benson's improvement as a player, and a whole lot to do with the offense being centered around Chris Simms during Benson's freshman and sophomore years and then being centered around Benson himself his junior and senior years.

It's not too hard to understand.

[This message has been edited by deuceswild (edited 4/6/2005 9:33a).]
13 0 Branding Iron
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quote:
CB was a great back, but he averaged 94 ypg before Vince Young became the starting QB for Texas.

CB didn't take off when Radio became QB. CB took off when the staff decided to start catering the gameplan and blocking scheme to his abilities in defacto acquiescence to the fact that he was THE offensive threat. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Radio and in fact defenses pretty much ignored Radio, refusing to spy him despite his running ability.



[This message has been edited by 13 0 Branding Iron (edited 4/6/2005 9:35a).]
HankHill
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quote:
I'll bite.

During Cedric Benson's freshman and sophomore years, Chris Simms was the QB of the team. Texas had Roy Williams, B.J. Johnson, and Sloan Thomas at WR. The offensive stars of the team were at QB and WR. The coaches knew this and ran a PASSING offense. Cedric Benson was just a complementery player in this offense, because the real success of the team depended on Simms, Roy, etc. When Simms graduated and those WRs only had one year left, Benson became the star of the team. Mack shifted to a more balanced, running team centered around Benson. When Young beat out Chance Mock, and there was no longer a passing threat on the team, they shifted to a run-heavy team.

I think those change in Benson's numbers have a little to do with Benson's improvement as a player, and a whole lot to do with the offense being centered around Chris Simms during Benson's freshman and sophomore years and then being centered around Benson himself his junior and senior years.

It's not too hard to understand.
This makes absolutely no sense.

You say Vince Young only has decent numbers because Cedric was the focus of the offense...as many Aggies put it, the only offensive weapon. How then can you say that Cedric's production was down because defenses had to focus on the passing game with Simms, Williams, Johnson & Thomas.

Aggie timeline for Texas players:

1. Texas recruits are overrated. They all suck.
2. Texas can't develop talent, so all of their overrated 'talent' is getting worse.
3. After Texas stomps A&M, this can be explained away by Texas' huge talent advantage. The players are still overrated though, but they have depth.
4. After the players graduate, they are irreplaceable stars with shoes much to large to be filled by a bunch of overrated talentless recruits.
deuceswild
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BTW, I wouldn't be hanging out Benson to dry like some of you are, saying he was only good because of Young. That's kind of like booing your own players as they walked off the field after they lost to Arkansas in 2003.

I am an Aggie, and I can recognize that Benson was a great player, and I can see that he fought hard to bring Texas a lot of success. I can respect that. As a Longhorn, you shouldn't kick him to the curb and disrespect what he did for the Texas program, simply so you can manufacture a better argument for Vince.
13 0 Branding Iron
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That argument is going to be exposed as flimsy and weak in Columbus.
Tempe 2003
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Aggies obsessed with the attention a Texas player is getting. Wow, what's new? It only happened
with Ricky, Major, Simms, Roy, Ced and now Vince. Its kinda scary how a whole section of people can be so blinded by their delusions that it makes them stupid. The post that killed me was the one where the agsy said the pass to TJ to win the Kansas game was to a wide open receiver and it was fluttering. Vince did throw a dart and TJ had to catch
the defender's arm and the ball to bring that one in.

Comparing the QB's
Is reggie a better passer than Vince?
Maybe. reggie has a more classic motion, thats for sure, but he does not complete a higher percentage of passes so maybe he's not. Is Vince a better runner than reggie? Does that question actually need an answer? Who reads defenses better? ou confused Vince a lot last year but they do that to a lot of
QB's. reggie was completely confused by Texas' defense last year. Texas had more sacks of reggie than agsy had points scored by their offense. Who wins more? Vince is 18-2 as a starter. reggie, yes, he's surrounded by some crappy players, but he doesn't elevate anyone else's game as a leader. Intangbles? reggie is a good college QB but he's not the star, carry a whole team on his shoulders type guy that Vince is.

Oh, and branding iron. [Personal attack deleted and please remember you are a guest on the forums--Texags Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 4/6/2005 1:46p).]
 
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