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Opinion Question for Landlords

2,120 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by DannyDuberstein
Sea Speed
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AG
What duty do you have to your tenants to make things as nice as possible for them while being realistic and ethical and while trying to be a top 10% landlord?

I think that I have been a very good and responsive landlord for the 2+ years I have had these tenants and have always gone out of my way to make sure things are taken care of if there are any issues.

Tuesday I was notified the downstairs AC was not cooling properly so I did a little research while trying to find a tech that could even answer my calls, let alone make a trip to the house.

I do not trust most AC techs because the vast majority of them have been sketchy IMO and so I took what the company that came out told me with a grain of salt about needing to replace a ton of stuff while also quoting me $450/lb to refill my R22 system.

Tuesday evening I sourced some R22 and told the tenant I would be over there Wednesday to recharge myself, to which they stated that that only a certified tech should be working with refrigerant. Fine, I am trying to get more quotes and insight anyways so I find a other company who will give me a quote and use my sourced R22. NBD. (Btw, FB marketplace is a great place to find affordable R22)

The 2nd company tells me something almost different than the 1st and seems much more reasonable to work with. Unit still needs some major work, but not as much as first company says. Either way I am going to get at least 3 quotes and the system is functioning as it should after refilling the refrigerant.

So tenant has kids, so I understand the frustration, but the home has an upstairs unit and the home was only 77 downstairs when I visited at 3 yesterday, so not the worst, and upstairs was normal temps.

The tenant argued that I have a duty to replace the AC system due to it's age even if there is nothing wrong with parts of it simply because it is old, and my obligation is to make sure nothing major like an AC outage in the summer will happen to them, to which I disagreed. I do not believe I need to replace something because it is old if it is not failing.
Her argument is that we have had issues with the AC systems in the past, which is true, but that has been issues with capacitors and other things like that, which have nothing to do with this leak. I have absolutely no problem making necessary repairs, but they wanted me to get the system repaired that day with the first available company while half the city was languishing without power and most companies couldn't even answer their phones. I am not going to spend my money in that manner because it is irresponsible imo.

So as a landlord & assuming you believe you have at least some obligation to your tenants, where do you think your responsibility or obligstions to the tenant ends? Would you replace an old system simply because the age? I can find all the flaws in the tenants logic and I can also understand wanting to ensure that they don't have AC or some other major system in the home go out, so I really just want to understand your mindset as a landlord. Thanks in advance.
sir charles
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We have extra window units on hand in case of a pinch. These can be installed and used on a temp basis while waiting to diagnose issues and deal with the system.

Keeps the tenants cool and bides time for you to get the issues corrected without feeling forced into an unnecessary fix or replacement.
will.mcg
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AG
Any kind of service giving information to tenants drives me freaking nuts in most cases.

They're in Houston & complaining about their house being 77?! wow.

Sounds like you're being responsible as a landlord in this situation. People don't like being uncomfortable. People generally think AC in the summer is a absolute requirement........but if you look closely at your lease agreement it may even have verbage about how that is not an emergency issue.

I would've told them to pound sand, nicely, when they spouted off about a certified technician dealing with recharging the system. If they want to speak to exactly how an issue is resolved they should buy their own house.
JP76
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Where is the freon leak at ?

Coil ? Condenser ?

What brand and how old is the system ?
Sea Speed
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sir charles said:

We have extra window units on hand in case of a pinch. These can be installed and used on a temp basis while waiting to diagnose issues and deal with the system.

Keeps the tenants cool and bides time for you to get the issues corrected without feeling forced into an unnecessary fix or replacement.


I get that and I may do that, but really I'm looking for opinions on if I am being unreasonable and it should be expected to make proactive changes to old eqpt.
highpriorityag
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totally reasonable to get the AC working asap

they do not have a right to new ac

they can buy their own place and buy a nice new AC
jopatura
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AG
Your duty to the tenant is to follow the lease and to follow habitable laws in your city. Nothing more, nothing less.

AC's are tricky. Tenants usually have never owned their own home to know enough about babying an old unit. They don't understand that you can replace multiple parts one at a time and still have a functioning system. They see that they've made X calls in Y years, the unit is Z years old, why wouldn't you just replace it. This is also compounded by habitable laws that don't really allow for enough time for getting multiple quotes and slowplaying issues like you might in your house. When you showed up with refrigerant, all they thought was "Crap, we have a slumlord that's going to leave us without AC" whether that's reasonable or not.

If you can both agree it's old, just replace it now, especially if you're trying to be an "ethical landlord". The situation isn't going to get better from here. However your only duty is to the lease agreement.

Edit: What we have done in the past is to allow tenants to call their own AC repair person on their time and take the cost out of rent when they submit the invoice. This helps them take more ownership of the cost and aren't just screaming at us to fix it.
JP76
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Sea Speed said:

sir charles said:

We have extra window units on hand in case of a pinch. These can be installed and used on a temp basis while waiting to diagnose issues and deal with the system.


Keeps the tenants cool and bides time for you to get the issues corrected without feeling forced into an unnecessary fix or replacement.


I get that and I may do that, but really I'm looking for opinions on if I am being unreasonable and it should be expected to make proactive changes to old eqpt.



Has the hvac been working ok or has it broken multiple times since the tenant has been there ? I think the tenant got triggered because you were trying to diy but if this has not been an ongoing hvac problem then they are just being difficult.
leighann
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To me, it sounds like you have done nothing wrong.
1. Part of the house is still air conditioned; they haven't gone without AC.
2. They shouldn't be telling you how to repair your house, especially with the "certified tech" complaints.
3. I definitely wouldn't let them schedule their own repairs and deduct from the rent; neither your tenant nor the repairmen they choose are likely to have your best financial interests in mind.
Good luck; sounds like they're being difficult. If this is a pattern, I might not renew their lease.
dallasiteinsa02
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As a former tenant, I have seen every type of landlord. I have had no air conditioning for weeks while waiting on parts. What I have discovered is that as long as they are trying to fix it, there wasn't much I could do. What I did learn is never sign a lease on a home that the landlord is using a home warranty company to take care of repairs.
Sea Speed
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The system is a 2005 Trane. A couple capacitors have blown out in various places, including in the other unit that is only 4 years old, and I've repaired them myself and at one point the upstairs was acting up but a company couldn't find anything wrong. This particular issue has never come up so I have not been trying to prolong it.

Companies were wanting beaucoup billfolds($250-$450/lb) to refill so I was planning to do it myself, but found a company by recommendation that would diagnose and fill with my R22 for $80 so that was worth it to me. I could honestly keep this thing limping along for a significant amount of time with just the R22 but I don't think I should leave that kind of thing hanging over their head but I don't think I am obligated to fix something that isn't broken simply because it is old and COULD break. I mean because it is an R22 system I may have to anyways but we will see.

SteveBott
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We keep our house at 78 regularly. Hell knocking it down to 76 is a treat. 77 is more than fine. I'd just fix it and tell her to pound sand
BrazosDog02
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Sea Speed said:

sir charles said:

We have extra window units on hand in case of a pinch. These can be installed and used on a temp basis while waiting to diagnose issues and deal with the system.

Keeps the tenants cool and bides time for you to get the issues corrected without feeling forced into an unnecessary fix or replacement.


I get that and I may do that, but really I'm looking for opinions on if I am being unreasonable and it should be expected to make proactive changes to old eqpt.


You're being completely reasonable. As someone that deals with tenants daily, you're the landlord because you generally make good financial decisions and they are the tenant likely because they don't.

I would use the most responsible company I could find and if that took three weeks, then so be it. Put some portable units in for them. If they don't like being tenants, maybe they can own their own home next time.
JP76
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Is this a heat pump unit ? If so 15-20 years is for lifespan unless it is a goodman. If gas furnace or electric then 20-25 years is average lifespan. I say limp it along as ling as the repairs are not major but at 19 years I would start saving for replacement as it is getting pretty old. Have you been having to add freon every year or is this a new issue ?
CS78
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AC units are just like appliances. New ones are largely junk and just as likely to crap the bad as old.

I have a couple good repair guys that I trust. Every once in a while they'll advise I replace a unit. Only then does that happen. Id never replace a working unit just because it's old.

Try not to let people get you worked up. Acknowledge their concerns and have good service men that you can trust. Get the repairs done when the time comes. If they don't like it, they can move at the end of the lease. But they probably won't
Hupernikao
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If it needs freon, it's leaking, so just adding r22 is a band aid. If you need a new unit, I have a direct supplier relationship with Trane for our property management company I could help source a unit for a good price. For our rentals, we buy the trane RunTru units and pay an HVAC company labor on to install.
Sea Speed
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Hupernikao said:

If it needs freon, it's leaking, so just adding r22 is a band aid. If you need a new unit, I have a direct supplier relationship with Trane for our property management company I could help source a unit for a good price. For our rentals, we buy the trane RunTru units and pay an HVAC company labor on to install.


Yea I get it is a bandaid that buys me time to get several quotes. I appreciate the offer. Where are you located?
cstat07
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If it's going out once per year, you definitely don't owe them a new AC. If it's going out once per month, you probably do.

That being said, I wouldn't make them wait overnight if it's a matter of saving $100 given the age of the system and recurring issues. I think you're being a fair landlord. But if you want to be called a good landlord, you probably eat the extra cost to get it fixed as quick as possible since the unit has recurring issues.
Sea Speed
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The issues I have had are over a 2+ year period and 2/3 were capacitor issues so I don't really pin that on the AC. Both were fixed same day in the past.
cstat07
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Yeah. Seems very reasonable then. How much money were you saving to push to the next day?
MAS444
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You're being more than reasonable...but I already knew that before reading. Just by posting this, you're demonstrating you're conscientiousness. Youy absoluteley don't have to get a new unit just cause the tennat says you do.
Sea Speed
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cstat07 said:

Yeah. Seems very reasonable then. How much money were you saving to push to the next day?


Unknown because i had no idea how much coolant it needed but it took over 3 lbs I believe so I saved over at least $300, but maybe as much as $500 bucks depending on actual weight of R22 added, but even if I would not have sourced my own, the 2nd company that came out would have cost about $600 less for the refill. I also still have over 25 lbs of R22 left as well as a 2nd opinion in hand. I also found a very honest company through recommendation in this process so that's another bonus.

Tenant is claiming that the AC units are both at the peak of their capabilities in the afternoon now because I think they are jaded and looking for reasons to complain.
unfortunately, I think this may end up souring what was a good relationship. We will see. Neither company has actually emailed me their quotes yet though so it isn't like I could move ahead with anything anyways.
dallasiteinsa02
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They are probably hoping to get a lower electric bill from the new unit.
Ryan the Temp
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Sea Speed said:


Tenant is claiming that the AC units are both at the peak of their capabilities in the afternoon now because I think they are jaded and looking for reasons to complain.
unfortunately, I think this may end up souring what was a good relationship. We will see. Neither company has actually emailed me their quotes yet though so it isn't like I could move ahead with anything anyways.
1. A reduction of up to 20 degrees between the outside and inside temperature is considered reasonable.
2. If they want to keep giving you grief about this, just remind them in Texas, a property owner DOES NOT have to provide AC if the windows open and have screens on them.
CS78
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If it doesn't have them, you could offer to install some ceiling fans.

Funny though, a lot of people will complain about being hot but refuse to use the fans above them.
Ribeye-Rare
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Sea Speed said:

Tuesday evening I sourced some R22 and told the tenant I would be over there Wednesday to recharge myself, to which they stated that that only a certified tech should be working with refrigerant.
To which you should have replied -- "You a cop?" That's pretty rich when the tenant thinks they're the EPA's enforcement officer.

BTW, I picked up EPA 608 Universal Certification on a single Saturday at a local tech college, should you be interested in adding that to your bag of tricks.

Quote:

(Btw, FB marketplace is a great place to find affordable R22)
Thanks for that tip. I'm still working through the last 30lb of R22 I purchased at the supply house. The invoice shows $115!

Refrigerant guys shows R22 for about $800/30lb, but those prices on Facebook Marketplace were about half that. Most look like factory-sealed containers, and provided somebody's not producing counterfeits, $400 is a pretty good deal.

Thanks. I too share your distrust of current A/C 'techs'. I used to have a company I really trusted and that I would bring in to do coil and compressor replacements after I diagnosed the problem, but my last couple of experiences with them were beyond bad and I'll just do everything myself in the future, if for no other reason than it drives my wife nuts.
Sea Speed
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Yep I got a factory sealed one for $420 but had I driven firther I could have got it for $380. I didn't haggle because the dude drove to channel view to meet me so that was worth asking price imo.

Tempting to buy a ton of it and horde because the price is inevitably going up, although I do believe it is still readily available in Mexico.
Ribeye-Rare
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Sea Speed said:

Yep I got a factory sealed one for $420 but had I driven firther I could have got it for $380. I didn't haggle because the dude drove to channel view to meet me so that was worth asking price imo.
Yeah, I'm in central Texas and it looks like driving to either DFW or Austin if I'm interested.

I would imagine that it's coming in from Mexico (imagine that!). I know recently some poor ******* in southern California had the book thrown at him by the EPA for re-selling R22 that he picked up across the border.

You'd think the Feds would have better things to spend their time on (e.g. fentanyl) , but apparently not.

From our friends at the EPA:
Quote:

WASHINGTON Today, March 4, 2024, Michael Hart of San Diego was arrested and charged with smuggling greenhouse gases into the United States from Mexico and then selling them for profit, in violation of regulations intended to curb the use of greenhouse gases and slow climate change.

This is the first prosecution in the United States to include charges related to the American Innovation and Manufacturing Act of 2020 (AIM Act). The AIM Act prohibits the importation of hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs), commonly used as refrigerants, without allowances issued by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
DannyDuberstein
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Seems like you are being reasonable. And at this point, I would mostly stop communicating with them on repair details other than when it should be fixed. If the AC needs recharged, recharge it. Since it's a bandaid, it will likely need it again anyway
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