Selling a house and the buyers' realtor is saying the roof failed inspection. We somewhat saw this coming. However, the buyers knew they weren't buying a house with a new roof so I'm willing to pay for half through a closing credit.

My realtor is saying their lender probably won't accept that - won't close the loan on a "bad" roof. I ask how their lender would even know - they don't get an inspection report. They say the buyers' realtor will disclose it. Is that normal?

I get the feeling my realtor is pushing me to offer to replace the roof prior to closing. I still haven't even received a contract amendment to even know what the buyers are asking, but the way it's going I'm assuming a full replacement roof prior to closing. I thought paying for half was reasonable, but not even my realtor seems to be on board with that idea.

I'm close to just asking for the inspection report to see what "failed" and repair that. Unless it's just some blanket language like the roof is old and past its normal life expectancy.

I've been through this once before. We (sellers) offered a dollar amount off the selling price. Buyers rejected, offers and contract fell through. We weren't in a position where we needed to sell fast, so we put the house back on the market. One week later we got a full price cash offer. Buyers were fine with the condition of the roof - like you said - they knew what they were getting.

Just my take. If you don't need to sell right this moment and the market is good in your area - then make them an offer, and let them decide how to proceed.

We sold a house about 10 years ago and went through the same thing. Got it down to a few thousand dollars to get it done. You would have thought that the roof looked like Swiss cheese from the buyers inspection. To this day they still have the same roof.

Both of your cases you lowered the price or offered a credit. My realtor is suggesting offering to replace the roof before closing "because the lender will require that." Makes no sense to me.

Tell em to find a new lender or pound sand.

Buyer may not be able to obtain a decent insurance policy.

Lender requires insurance.

DadAG10 said:

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Buyer may not be able to obtain a decent insurance policy.

Lender requires insurance.

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Insurance excludes roof replacements all the time. Just happened to me due to age.

Dr. Venkman said:

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Selling a house and the buyers' realtor is saying the roof failed inspection. We somewhat saw this coming. However, the buyers knew they weren't buying a house with a new roof so I'm willing to pay for half through a closing credit.

My realtor is saying their lender probably won't accept that - won't close the loan on a "bad" roof. I ask how their lender would even know - they don't get an inspection report. They say the buyers' realtor will disclose it. Is that normal?.....

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If you negotiate over repairs, the lender is going to want to see the report, esp if its a big ticket item.

We asked for cash to fix a few things (small ticket times) on our own after the sale & included a "repairs" line in closing doc. 48 hrs before close, lender balked & said they would have to review full inspection report if we included the repairs line in closing doc. So we just dropped that line item and the seller paid me cash on the side.

Point is, the lender is buying the house & if they get wind of an inspection report with big issues, they very may well want to see it.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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DadAG10 said:

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Buyer may not be able to obtain a decent insurance policy.

Lender requires insurance.

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Insurance excludes roof replacements all the time. Just happened to me due to age.

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which is why it isn't a decent policy.

PFG said:

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I've been through this once before. We (sellers) offered a dollar amount off the selling price. Buyers rejected, offers and contract fell through. We weren't in a position where we needed to sell fast, so we put the house back on the market. One week later we got a full price cash offer. Buyers were fine with the condition of the roof - like you said - they knew what they were getting.

Just my take. If you don't need to sell right this moment and the market is good in your area - then make them an offer, and let them decide how to proceed.

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FYI - this worked well because there was a cash deal and no lender was involved.

Yes, happens all the time. You will want to get a roofer out there to see if there is any damage. If damaged, the insurance can send out an adjuster to see if you qualify for a new roof.

If the roofer finds damage, make sure they go with the adjuster to the property.

It worked Bc I waited for the right buyer and refused to let that buyers agent stand on the "roof shows age" verbiage on the inspection as a way to suck money out of the deal.

No **** it shows age. It's not brand new.

Dr. Venkman said:

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Selling a house and the buyers' realtor is saying the roof failed inspection. We somewhat saw this coming. However, the buyers knew they weren't buying a house with a new roof so I'm willing to pay for half through a closing credit.

My realtor is saying their lender probably won't accept that - won't close the loan on a "bad" roof. I ask how their lender would even know - they don't get an inspection report. They say the buyers' realtor will disclose it. Is that normal?

I get the feeling my realtor is pushing me to offer to replace the roof prior to closing. I still haven't even received a contract amendment to even know what the buyers are asking, but the way it's going I'm assuming a full replacement roof prior to closing. I thought paying for half was reasonable, but not even my realtor seems to be on board with that idea.

I'm close to just asking for the inspection report to see what "failed" and repair that. Unless it's just some blanket language like the roof is old and past its normal life expectancy.

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Remember, real estate agents make their money on closing deals, not on holding out to make sure you get the best deal. Go read Freakonomics. So don't be afraid to tell your realtor, their realtor, and the buyer to go pound sand.

We sold a house 12 years ago and the buyer wanted a new roof due to age - not leaking or damaged. We said no. They bought anyway and.... you guessed it.... still the same roof on it today.

Have a trustworthy roofer check out your roof. See if it has legitimate issues. If it does, fix them. If it doesn't, don't.

And to comment on the post above, which shockingly trashes REALTORS (seems like a trend on this board lately)...there are agents in this world that ABSOLUTELY fight in the best interest of their clients. Those of us that understand that we are building lifelong relationships. Those of us that have ethics. Those of us that work our a** off for our clients and fight to get them the best possible outcome. Just a request to not paint with such a broad brush...

Bravo one meen.
We must do something about this immediately, harrumph, harrumph, harrumph.

Thanks all for the advice.

And I wouldn't categorize my realtor as lazy or incompetent. Just not a good negotiator. Seems like a push over which you can't be in that line of work.

How old is the roof? I work insurance claims and roofing sales. I have had FEW roofs denied insurance from age...it happens, just not often, and with a qualified roofer, a little push back sometimes results in a win for the homeowner. If you are sitting with a 10-15 year old roof, you generally don't want to be wasting money 'fixing' anything. Roofs are a maintenance item, and like the oil in your car, it eventually must be replaced. This depends completely on what is 'wrong' with the roof in particular.

If its just 'old', but it isn't leaking, lifted, and the pipe jacks aren't leaking or damaged.....not a whole lot of reason to replace now. Plus, if it is nearing that age, it won't take much weather to damage it for an insurance replacement.

We were purchasing a property that the inspection report required new supports to be added. The seller agreed to make the repair. While the roofer was onsite, he noted several other issues that needed to be addressed and expressed concern for the safety of the occupants of the home. The seller's realtor said we didn't ask for them so forget about them. Since we had requested a copy of the receipt from the roofer showing the repairs made, the roofer included his findings on it. We didn't know it at the time, but the realtor made a new invoice to send to us showing the repairs were made.

About six months later, we had a roof leak at a chimney. Since the roofer had made the repairs, we called him back out. He is also a Pastor at a local church. He let us in on the entire story and asked if we wanted to make the other repairs that he noted on his previous invoice.

I called the broker, who happen to be the agent's father, and let him have it. He called the roofer and I liars even though we had documented proof of the fraud. I told him that he could either reimburse me the cost of the repairs or I would take out a full page ad in the communities newsletter detailing the story and report him to TREC. It got really heated. Since he was a big realtor in the area the moment the story went to the newsletter company, he must have gotten word. He dropped a check in my mailbox. If it wasn't for my wife talking me down, I would have still bought the ad.

Just FYI, I would have reported him to TREC anyway. But I am a licensed Realtor competing with hacks and stay at home moms and have zero tolerance for that sort of stuff.

Old is one thing, up to a point. I have inspected roofs that were so old and bad that no single cause could be identified. In that case the buyer may not even be able to get it insured. It deserves conversation. Sometimes, the seller has collected insurance money's and not done the work. Others they are just unlucky or did not do normal maintenance, (while unusual around here, sometimes roofs do die of old age rather than hail.)

Hail damage is pretty straight forward and sometimes sellers are surprised. But they get it covered and move on

Old and somewhat worn/bad condition is tough. As an inspector I state it as trtluthfully and straightforwardly as I can. The rest is up to the involved parties. Replacement is not always the answer,but it is a legitimate concern for the buyer.

Then there was the lawyer seller with the comp overlay on wood that was 18buears old and in horrible shape by itself. That NO insurance company would insure,who insisted nothing was wrong despite my opinion, three roofers and two insurance adjusters.

We tried to sell our house in 2013, and our roof needed some repairs. We offered to make the repairs but the realtor and buyer demanded a new roof. We refused to file a claim because there was not enough damage to claim a new roof. The deal eventually fell through and we wound up taking the house off the market and staying. The roof was just old, with zero leaks. It was operating just fine. Fast forward 5 years this year and we decided to sell again. We knew the roof was going to be an issue again so we got a roofer, he found just barely enough damage to justify a new roof. Insurance agreed and we had it put on before we listed the property.

But this is what pisses me off about all of this. 99% of real estate agents are obsessed with a new roof. If it's not leaking, who gives a ****? We're in Texas and eventually there will be a hail storm that justifies a new roof. But nope. You can not sell a house anymore without a new roof regardless. So guess what? When I went to get insurance on the new house, no one wants to give a 1% deductible or replacement cost anymore because of all of this. Luckily my current company let me stay on my current policy.

We are years very short years away from every insurance company in Texas only offering 2%+ deductibles and Actual cash value policies and I 110% blame the realtors. Quite frankly it's very sad. It makes you wonder what the kick back is between them and the roofers. If it's not leaking or compromised why replace it??? Age doesn't mean you just automatically get a new roof.

I wish vehicles were insured like roofs. When it gets old and doesn't look brand new, just file a claim and get a brand new car right?

Does insurance give a discount yet on metal roofing over in Texas? I kind of assumed they would because all I hear about over there is hail.

Totally agree. I just sold one and the inspector found "hail damage". Marked some stuff on pictures that I couldn't see. I climbed up on a ladder and still couldn't see it. Sure the roof is older, maybe there technically is hail damage but the roof will serve it's purpose for years in to the future. Buyers agent gets ahold of inspection and demands that I contact my insurance company to get a new roof. My relationship with my insurance company is none of his business. I came down on price some to make the deal work but it almost fell apart because I wouldn't play their game. I guarantee you, when I drive by that house in a few years, that same roof will still be there, doing it's job just fine. If it meant lower rates for everyone, I wish they would drop roofs from coverage all together.

Don't disagree with you but not just on the realtors forcing it. The insurance companies make it challenging as well because most policies will have a pre-existing damage exclusion. So if you have a hail storm (or two or three) that damages your roof over a 5-10 year period, and finally you get to a point where you need to replace it and file a claim with your current insurance provider, they might deny it or only cover part of it saying that it's not clear what damage was done from the most recent storm and what is 5 years old. No great answer unfortunately, but yes, definitely frustrating that realtors push and push and push for new roofs. We bought our house in 2010 and the seller had just put on a new roof, presumably because they knew it would be requested. This last year we had to file a claim for the first time, but I am sure when we sell in the next 3-5 years, someone will peg my roof as needing replacement even if it's in great shape.

I'm still confused as to why people are surprised that a Realtor would push for his buyers to get a new roof at the expense of the seller. We are talking about roofs that are 10 years or older, right? If so, that's old and at or near the end of it's life. Why is this shocking to anyone?

Is the roof functioning properly? Are there any leaks? Why should the seller be obligated to provide a new roof if it is performing it's function without any issue other than being old? As a realtor do you ask for new water heaters and HVAC for all purchases as well? New windows? I get why they do it, but I also get why sellers are frustrated by it and why insurance rates and deductibles are going up in North Texas when roofs are replaced sometimes every 2-3 years. When I replaced my roof last year, we had gone through multiple hail storms over 7 years and still had no leaks. However at the behest of my realtor as we were CONSIDERING selling at the time, she said we would be better off replacing the roof. Again, I understand the reasoning, but if the roof is performing its function with no leaks or issues other than age, then I don't think it's unreasonable to tell a buyer no when they request a new roof.

The assumption should be that the price that the home is contracted at is at market price for the current condition of the home. During an option period, if something is discovered that is unknown about the condition, the market price may change or a repair made. I am tried of buyers asking for modifications under the guise of "it was found on the inspection" to improve the home versus other comparable homes. As a seller, you disclose the age of the roof. If it isn't leaking or damaged, there should be no surprises.

If you want to change the way transactions are done, we need to dramatically change the amount for option periods. This $10 a day is not cutting. In Highland Park, it was common place for million dollar plus homes to be tied up over $140. This opens up the market for people to do a second round of negotiations. If sellers across the state would start demanding .5% of the purchase price for a 14 day option, I think you would see things change. Even in the hottest markets, where sellers have tons of leverage, they never up the option price because every realtor will tell you that $10 a day is "standard."

HouseDivided06 said:

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Is the roof functioning properly? Are there any leaks? Why should the seller be obligated to provide a new roof if it is performing it's function without any issue other than being old? As a realtor do you ask for new water heaters and HVAC for all purchases as well? New windows? I get why they do it, but I also get why sellers are frustrated by it and why insurance rates and deductibles are going up in North Texas when roofs are replaced sometimes every 2-3 years. When I replaced my roof last year, we had gone through multiple hail storms over 7 years and still had no leaks. However at the behest of my realtor as we were CONSIDERING selling at the time, she said we would be better off replacing the roof. Again, I understand the reasoning, but if the roof is performing its function with no leaks or issues other than age, then I don't think it's unreasonable to tell a buyer no when they request a new roof.

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After owning a few houses I can honestly say I'd rather have a 7 year old roof that's known not to leak over a new, untested one. I've seen too many flashing problems get discovered after the first heavy rain following a new roof being put on and if I/my insurance isn't the one that called them out to do the job there's no telling whether the roofing company would even come back to rework it. Or even be known for that matter.

HouseDivided06 said:

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Is the roof functioning properly? Are there any leaks? Why should the seller be obligated to provide a new roof if it is performing it's function without any issue other than being old? As a realtor do you ask for new water heaters and HVAC for all purchases as well? New windows? I get why they do it, but I also get why sellers are frustrated by it and why insurance rates and deductibles are going up in North Texas when roofs are replaced sometimes every 2-3 years. When I replaced my roof last year, we had gone through multiple hail storms over 7 years and still had no leaks. However at the behest of my realtor as we were CONSIDERING selling at the time, she said we would be better off replacing the roof. Again, I understand the reasoning, but if the roof is performing its function with no leaks or issues other than age, then I don't think it's unreasonable to tell a buyer no when they request a new roof.

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I like this discussion and I understand your side. You are more than welcome to do what you want in negotiating. You don't have to agree to anything. It's your home, not the Realtor's. I 've done roofing sales and homeowner representation for insurance claims. I know exactly what I'm looking for in a roof inspection. Saying your 7 year old roof with hail damage is performing it's function is not something you know. It's like saying your 50,000 mile tires that are bald are performing their function because they didn't blow out on your 5 minute trip to the store. Roofs are a maintenance item. They have a life. In both cases, the function was performed in the narrow set of ideal circumstances you were in. That's a very poor and elementary way to view the performance. The roof may actually be fine, but you can't say that based on not leaking.

If I negotiate with adjusters and 'no leaks' is the point they lead with, I'll eat their lunch every day of the week and make them sad.

You have to keep in mind that my job as a Realtor is to look out for the interests of my buyer, not the interests of the seller. That's the other Realtor's job.

So it's the agents fault for advocating on behalf of their client? I thought we wanted realtors who worked in the clients best interest, and getting a new roof seems like it would be in their best interest. That realtor also doesn't want to get sued or at the very least have a pissed off client later down the line because the new owner cant get insurance on their roof because they told them "it's fine its not leaking, go ahead and take it as-is". This blame the Realtors BS is just lazy.

No, if you really want to blame someone for the high cost of insurance or the focus on re-roofs, look no further than the industry with absolutely ZERO regulation and whose only barrier to entry is a 20 yr old beater truck and a ladder. It's not Realtors knocking on the doors of the neighborhoods the morning after a hail storm. Go read the Metroplex weather thread and you'll see who is pushing roof replacements. And then when Edna next door finds out Cynthia and Roger got a new roof, well shes going to want to get one too.

Realtors can only work off the information provided by the experts in this regards, and not to attack Kevin or his profession as I think he is a VERY good inspector, but like he said any roof with a few years age, especially in North Texas is going to have some hail damage, but rarely can inspectors or roofers say with any certainty that this roof is "totaled". So what is a Realtor to do, just tell their client "well, you have a roof that doesn't leak but it may or may not be insurable so let's keep this deal moving forward!" GTFO!!! You'd come on here and start a whole new rant about how crappy your Realtor was. No an agent working in their clients best interest is going to advocate that the seller files a claim, that way an adjuster either deems it insurable so it's left between the current and future carriers to fight out who's responsible in the event new buyers carrier denies coverage for pre existing, or the roof gets replaced.

Want to fix the problem? Encourage law makers to mandate impact resistant roofs. This won't be done without subsidies as Joe Public cant afford to replace his roof with normal shingles, much less shingles that cost 1.5-2x. All insurers give a credit for it as well, but keep in mind, if you catch baseball or softball or in the case of some DFW areas, grapefruit sized hail, ain't no shingle withstanding that. And adding some licensing requirements and other regulations to the roofing industry wouldn't hurt as well.

But what do I know I just sell real estate and insurance, ive gone through this dozens of times and i'm 100% to blame. Theres guys who've read Freakonomics and sold their house once that are the experts.

And for what it's worth I havent sold a policy, nor anyone in my office that I'm aware of with more than a 1% wind/hail deductible, they're not hard to find.

So what insurance companies are actually balking on these roofs? I've insured 50-60 houses in recent years through USAA and Farmers. Many with roofs that inspectors have deemed unfit and not a single time has my insurer made a peep. Buyers agents start in on that "can't get insurance" BS but then it's funny, when you drop the price a few K, insurance is no longer a concern. And every single time those roofs are still on years later. Insurance is just the boogeyman agents use to turn the screws to unsuspecting sellers.

I think I'm going to start putting on every sellers disclosure that the roof has hail damage, the A/C is old and not serviceable, and the water heater has rust and is ready to explode.

CS78 said:

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So what insurance companies are actually balking on these roofs? I've insured 50-60 houses in recent years through USAA and Farmers. Many with roofs that inspectors have deemed unfit and not a single time has my insurer made a peep. Buyers agents start in on that "can't get insurance" BS but then it's funny, when you drop the price a few K, insurance is no longer a concern. And every single time those roofs are still on years later. Insurance is just the boogeyman agents use to turn the screws to unsuspecting sellers.

I think I'm going to start putting on every sellers disclosure that the roof has hail damage, the A/C is old and not serviceable, and the water heater has rust and is ready to explode.

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They will still write the policy but the roof gets excluded.

I am in commercial property and casualty insurance, so not residential, but same principles apply I assume. I have never had a roof completely excluded except for the one apartment complex I insured in New Orleans in 2012 that still had tarps from Katrina on it. Worst case, roofs over 15 years old are insured at actual cash value as opposed to replacement cost. Not being able to insure a residential roof I would think would mean it is over 20 years old or more, which I doubt is the norm. Or the insurance agent sucks.

In regards to East Dallas Ags post, no, do not blame the realtor at all for wanting to do something for their buyers, but I think the frustration comes in when deals fall through because the buyers want a new roof just because it's not a brand new roof and their realtor and/or inspector are saying "well it won't really cost the seller anything so let's ask for it." I understand the reasoning, but it DOES give buyers some unreasonable expectations especially if the roof is still in good shape. And yes, the fly by night roofing companies are crap and make the whole situation even worse for sure.