Real Estate
Sponsored by

Here's one to stew on: family land/inheritance

136,186 Views | 393 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by schwack schwack
histag10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
schwack schwack said:

Great plan & sort of what was always the plan here until my Sister decided she wanted part of hers now.




Crap like this is what leads to people leaving their kids $10 in their will. It's an effective way of "writing them out of the will", without giving them the opening to sue the estate because they were unintentionally forgotten.
Aggie Rick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yes BIL seems like a huge p*ssy trying to back door his way into $$$. Keep us updated!
SteveBott
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Any update after the holidays?
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BIL shouldn't even be participating in the discussion.
Garrelli 5000
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Re-read this thread from the beginning. BIL needs to be told to go play outside with the rest of the kids while the grown-ups talk. At this point I'd start going out of my way to make him feel uncomfortable. If he is allowed to continue pressuring your sister to pressure your parents, the odds increase they'll cave as they get older and more tired of fighting back.

At some point, in front of the parents, ask your sister if this is her idea or her husband's.
harrierdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
get the property into an FLP that will be broken up between you and your sister if it is still in the family upon their deaths. It protects everyone. Additionally, not too costly.
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Nothing new since the last update after Thanksgiving. I think my parents are backing off, but I've learned that they are not always 100% truthful about the situation. Who knows what they are telling my sister & if it's the same line I'm getting. Honestly, I've said my piece to them - that my only concern is that they be covered financially as they get older & that their chances of selling if they needed to at a good price would really be hindered if they split it up now. That's it in a nutshell - what they do is up to them. I will come back as I learn things or the situation starts to spiral......
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

get the property into an FLP

??
histag10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Im guessing they mean Family Limited Partnership, but I thought that was moreso for family businesses, not real property that will be divided upon death. Also, they dont provide much protection if someone comes with a lawsuit, as they are basically an LLC. Which, by the way, can be a pain to dissolve if the partners are not in agreement on things.


I would think some sort of Trust, maybe revocable, would be better, as it would allow your parents to revoke the assets if they needed to, but upon death, they would be distributed to you and your sister as the beneficiaries.
BigPuma
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FLPs are one of the most powerful estate planning tools currently available with the current tax laws written as they are.

FLPs are generally meant to hold land and other appreciating assets such as investment accounts etc. I rarely see them with active businesses (other than farm or wildlife operations associated with the land).
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Interesting. Will look into these FLP things. Thanks!
histag10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
my apologies. My understanding of them is limited. I know we dont deal with them often.
84AGEC
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
they can be good and bad
BigPuma
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
no problem. Adding terms like "Family" or "Investment" in front of "Limited Partnership" generally indicate that the entity is meant to be somewhat passive in nature.

As 84AGEC mentions they have their ups and downs. But like almost any entity structure they have are tools that used in certain ways can help achieve whatever the end goals are desired.

There are a lot of large and small ranches around Texas held in FLPs.
histag10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BigPuma said:

no problem. Adding terms like "Family" or "Investment" in front of "Limited Partnership" generally indicate that the entity is meant to be somewhat passive in nature.

As 84AGEC mentions they have their ups and downs. But like almost any entity structure they have are tools that used in certain ways can help achieve whatever the end goals are desired.

There are a lot of large and small ranches around Texas held in FLPs.


Like I said, just my experience where I am (not in Texas). I know they can be a PITA to dissolve, and we don't deal with them often, but when we have, they have held the family ranch/farm/business, and not property that does not generate income (not sure if OPS parents property does or not)
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

not property that does not generate income (not sure if OPS parents property does or not)

The property does not generate income.
harrierdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
again, they are for assets, not necessarily income producing businesses.

Obviously, you would want to speak with an estate lawyer if this was a viable option. Your folks probably wouldn't go for it, but it would make it much easier for you to ensure your consideration is protected, compared with your sister. It also helps you ensure that your folks aren't taken advantage of, assuming you are agreeable with the way the FLP was set up.
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Update for those interested. It seems to be ramping up again. This is all from Mom - so, as always, not sure it's the whole story, but it's all I've got.

They went home for spring break. In short, they are putting pressure on Mom to talk Dad into it. They retire in 3 years so they were scoping out where on the property they want to build, on a trip into town for groceries they detoured unannounced to look at log houses (with Mom), then they took nephew to the science museum in Dallas for the day and Mom said she was afraid to go - but did for him - because she knew the whole trip was going to be to pressure her. She said she told them nobody can force Dad to do anything and that they better tread lightly or he's liable to say something that hurts their feelings. That is a super true statement - they will regret it either way - whether he just flat out says no and some potentially mean stuff (he's at the grumpy old man/no filter stage of life) or he relents & they move there and he makes life miserable for them because it wasn't what he wanted.

She also said she told them that part of it was up to us. Ugh. But I now feel like I'm at the point where I'll just tell them what I think & what the parents have expressed to us about not really wanting to do it. They have not attempted to discuss with me yet.

Side note, Mom has had some very recent health problems. She told me that this is stressing her out & she doesn't need that now. This is another reason I feel it might be the time to butt in & tell them to back off.

IMO, the best solution for everyone is for them to buy some land in the area, build their log cabin & when the time comes I'll sell them my half. They can sell their property to fund that plan. That seems like a win-win except that they will have to buy land on the front end, but they will be selling their current, mortgage free house when they do this, so I can't see that as a problem. But what do I know.....?
harrierdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
1. Do you anticipate ever wanting any of the property?
A. Yes, and parents won't need money in future: then the family needs to get together to discuss upfront and with everyone in attendance how the best way to divide the property up. Maybe have the prime piece put into an FLP, with you and sister equal owners, and the remaining property split equally and then deeded in each of your names. I'm sure you can have some kind of agreement written up that the parents have right to live there as long as they want. Unless your parents have a lot of assets, there shouldn't be any significant tax implications, as this sounds as if it would fall under the lifetime exemption.
B. Yes, and parents may need money in future: again, get together to determine how to break up the land eventually, but put the entire property in FLP. If parents need money, then they can sell what they need, if and when they need it. You and/or your sister could have right of first refusal to purchase land prior to selling it.
C. No: let the sister and BIL figure out what they want, get an appraisal of the property AND of that carved out piece, with value of remaining property. If they pick the prime spot, then the remaining property may decline in value. You will also want to make sure that the remaining property has access for whomever purchases it eventually. Then, come up with an equitable price and have the sister and her husband put that money in a trust, along with the differential of the remaining property's value, so that, upon the settlement of the estate, if any money is remaining, after your parents use it as needed, it is split evenly between you both. The trust can be set up so that there is an independent trustee that manages the money, and can release funds for mom and dad as needed, and you aren't part of it. Hopefully mom and dad won't use that money to support sis and BIL. Also, don't let mom and dad owner finance any of it, as there will be a good chance that sis and BIL won't pay, and your folks won't take them to court.

My guess is, they don't want to pay any money up front. They want the land given to them and then use the equity in their current home to build their new home so they don't have a large mortgage.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems the most upfront way of doing everything, protecting your parents, as well as both yours and your sister's interests.
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
harrierdoc - Thank you for your input/advice. I appreciate your help.

We are option C. I love the property but it's in an area where there is no work for us so I can't ever see moving there - plus, I don't want to ever live next door to my sister & her family (and the extended family of my brother-in-law who would be constant visitors). I need to re-read your post & let it all sink in.

My parents are not the "lawlerly" type. Getting them to spend any money on planning will be a chore. I know that they have always thought we'd just split in in half when they are done with it all.

They have already decided which part of the property they want: the best that includes the hill, pond & the great, old barn. My parents house (the part I would get) is not shabby either but they would be building way too close for anyone else to want to buy it. The access is 1 railroad crossing - that will never change & will always be shared. Again, making only half of the property a hard sell.

If they get it now for free & eventually my parents have to sell the rest to take care of themselves, they will not get what they should in a sale & I will be 100% left out.

I appreciate your help & the time you took to reply.


SoTheySay
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
With mentioning how it stresses her out I'm not sure I could keep quiet at this point.
harrierdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
schwack schwack said:

My parents are not the "lawlerly" type. Getting them to spend any money on planning will be a chore. I know that they have always thought we'd just split in in half when they are done with it all.
I wouldn't have the parents do it. Rather, I'd have you and your sister set up the lawyer, pay for it all. The only thing your parents need to do is make sure their wishes are respected, and show up to sign the papers.
Agmechanic
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Tell them to sell the whole thing and cut you a check for your half. It's the only way to do this fairly and equitably.
SteveBott
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The parents still live there and who knows how long they will use the property
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Correct SteveBott - they still live there, Agmechanic.
Aggie Rick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
No disrespect to your sister and BIL but I hope there is no way you let these b*tches bully and guilt their way into getting everything they want.
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Disrespect away - I do....

It's a fine line to walk. As much as I want things to end up fairly it just may not. I think my parents have always wanted it to be split evenly, too, but with them wanting to live there & us not wanting to I just don't know how it will end up. We only get one side of the story - and usually from Mom since Dad holds his cards close to the vest - so, I'm never really sure what's going on 100%. We have been very honest with them about our fears for their long term care & the real possibility that they might eventually have to sell the whole property to finance their needs. Also explained several times that Sister's plan really devalues what they will have left in a selling situation since their new house will be too close, they have the pond, the beautiful barn and the biggie: the only access ever allowed onto the property has to be shared. All of those factors will reduce the worth of the other part of the property if they need to sell or it comes to us later.

Sister has been avoiding us. We haven't seen them in over a year since they decided not to do Thanksgiving or Christmas with us in 2016. I just found out she knew about Mom's recent health issue before we were told - said she was sworn to secrecy by Dad & in her defense, I don't doubt that he asked her to keep it quiet since that's his way on everything - but COME ON.... really?!? I would have let her know.

Parents want to come out and fish in the next couple of weeks. Mom says she just wants to lay in the hammock with a book so I'm not going to bring up anything unless she does.

LSB_2002
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
schwack schwack said:

Quote:

Don't assume that your relationship today will dictate that each party will act fairly in the future.

Oh, I already know how my sister's husband will act. He wants it all. He's an only child and I swear he doesn't really like to acknowledge that I exist most of the time. He refers to my parents as "her parents". Weird. So it's gonna be ugly thru no fault of my own - I just want it to be fair.

How big a boy is he? I'd consider knocking his teeth out!
Aggie Rick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
LSB_2002 said:

schwack schwack said:

Quote:

Don't assume that your relationship today will dictate that each party will act fairly in the future.

Oh, I already know how my sister's husband will act. He wants it all. He's an only child and I swear he doesn't really like to acknowledge that I exist most of the time. He refers to my parents as "her parents". Weird. So it's gonna be ugly thru no fault of my own - I just want it to be fair.

How big a boy is he? I'd consider knocking his teeth out!


Most likely one punch right to his p*ssy would shut him down forever.
Quinn
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If the parents give your sister the land she wants and then they can't sell their portion to cover late in life expenses, will you be the one stuck with the bills?

This whole thing is ridiculous and so selfish on your sister's part. It's your parents property until they decide they are done with it. I guess people can't help themselves from spending their inheritance before they even get it. Sorry about the crappy situation.
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yes, if it reaches a point where my parents need financial help I will, of course, step up. I would like to think my sister will, too. If this all happens, who knows, it might work out where with them there if my parents could stay longer and not have the expense of long term care away from the homestead. However, as noted somewhere above, Mom mentioned it one time & got a blank stare.

Yeah, the whole thing is pretty messed up.

Bassmaster
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
schwack schwack said:

Yes, if it reaches a point where my parents need financial help I will, of course, step up. I would like to think my sister will, too. If this all happens, who knows, it might work out where with them there if my parents could stay longer and not have the expense of long term care away from the homestead. However, as noted somewhere above, Mom mentioned it one time & got a blank stare.

Yeah, the whole thing is pretty messed up.



She won't. Her sissy husband will be sure of that.
Aggie Rick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Any update after potential mothers/Father's Day gatherings?
schwack schwack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Aggie Rick - Nothing to update. Parents have gone quiet on the subject. The only thing future related that they've commented on lately was that a smaller house/less land property of a friend of theirs might be hitting the market in the area and that they might look into it. We didn't press them, just said that sounded great. And it would be great - so much less for them to deal with. I can't see Dad ever leaving where is he though so he may just be placating Mom.... been done before. Ha!
Aggie Rick
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
post 2017 holiday update?
@Aggie_Rick
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.