Kamala wants to let Trump's 2017 tax cuts expire at the end of 2025. That would cost $1000/month for the average middle class family.
Expiration of 2017 Tax Cuts
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Last: 2 mo ago by I bleed maroon
Yeah, her comments about Trump's tax plans are just more lies. Par for the course. Allowing them to expire will raise taxes on everyone that actually pays taxes. Then she wants to raise them further.
Unpopular opinion, but the tax cuts need to expire. We can't afford them. Easy to say "cut spending", but there are very few proposals (and none that substantially move the needle) which would make it through even if Republican's controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House. The only thing that could potentially move the needle is entitlement reform and neither party seems to have the stomach to actually try to address it.
It is sad that some people are so defeated that they find it more logical to accept higher taxes while also accepting the govt making absolutely zero effort to cut spending. We aren't taxing our way out of any of this. Gonna hurt a lot of families and it will be a drop in the bucket to changing the deficit in any meaningful way. It will just empower them to spend more.
I'm a pragmatists. Attach it to a proposal which is deficit neutral and I'll agree to it, but I'm pretty confident nothing like that will make it through Congress.
If the options are (i) extend with no specific agreement on spending cut or (ii) let expire, I'd choose option (ii). I've seen option (i) play out too many times with promises to cut spending and then those promises fall through when the political reality sets in that most cuts are unpopular.
If the options are (i) extend with no specific agreement on spending cut or (ii) let expire, I'd choose option (ii). I've seen option (i) play out too many times with promises to cut spending and then those promises fall through when the political reality sets in that most cuts are unpopular.
Higher taxes is just an excuse for more spending.
Philip J Fry said:
Higher taxes is just an excuse for more spending.
Exactly my point. Just empowers them to spend even more. Allowing the cuts to expire will do nothing for the deficit
That was a fine idea 10s of trillions ago then our politicians on both sides of the isle proved they can't actually cut spending and will just put the lower tax revenue collected on our children's tab. Until congress/executive branch can actually trim the size of the federal budget, it's hard to support individual income tax cuts.Philip J Fry said:
Higher taxes is just an excuse for more spending.
But I guess we'll just make it our children's problem.
That's happening regardless. Inflation that they brought on is another form of theft from the tax payer.
We are not going to tax our way to prosperity. The only option to get out of this mess is to start dramatically cutting entitlements. Raising taxes will do nothing but hurt tax payers even more.
We are not going to tax our way to prosperity. The only option to get out of this mess is to start dramatically cutting entitlements. Raising taxes will do nothing but hurt tax payers even more.
themissinglink said:That was a fine idea 10s of trillions ago then our politicians on both sides of the isle proved they can't actually cut spending and will just put the lower tax revenue collected on our children's tab. Until congress/executive branch can actually trim the size of the federal budget, it's hard to support individual income tax cuts.Philip J Fry said:
Higher taxes is just an excuse for more spending.
But I guess we'll just make it our children's problem.
Taxing more is exacerbating our children's problem
The estate tax threshold is very important to anyone who intends to keep agriculture as independent ventures. We will have a full turnover of agricultural lend within a generation without it.
If Kamala wins and reduces it further, and does away with the stepped up basis, it will accelerate even further.
#1 issue in this election to some and it isn't even discussed.
If Kamala wins and reduces it further, and does away with the stepped up basis, it will accelerate even further.
#1 issue in this election to some and it isn't even discussed.
The refusal of both parties to even consider entitlement reform is late-stage Roman Empire-level abdication of reality. Something that cannot go on will, eventually, stop. And every year that we refuse to deal with it compounds the disaster. I'm 50, this crisis will hit about the year I'm eligible for social security, and no one with a viable career in either party will even discuss it. The majority of voters literally seem to think we can solve it by not giving money to Ukraine or Israel or making the rich pay their "fair share" - none of which would cover a single year of entitlement spending. We have the government that we deserve but it sucks to live through it.
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
States need to understand that tax payers aren't an endless supply of money for them. Letting them raise taxes as much as they want because they know they can be deducted from federal taxes isn't exactly fair to the rest of us.
ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
But the massive increase in the standard deduction likely covered much of that.
A couple with ordinary AGI of $230k would have paid $52k in taxes with the pre-Trump brackets. At $500k, it would be $143k. Under the current Trump brackets, the couple would pay $40k at $230k and $115k at $500k. The marginal rate applied to your net lost exemption isn't covering that unless you are losing a net of $40k+ in exemptions
At $150k of AGI, that's $28k in taxes in the old brackets, $23k under Trump. So the net lost exemption would have to be around $20k to cover it
DannyDuberstein said:ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
But the massive increase in the standard deduction likely covered much of that.
A couple with ordinary AGI of $230k would have paid $52k in taxes with the pre-Trump brackets. At $500k, it would be $143k. Under the current Trump brackets, the couple would pay $40k at $230k and $115k at $500k. The marginal rate applied to your property taxes isn't covering that unless you are paying $40k in property taxes
20k property taxes, I think 7-8 sales tax for itemize
But you have a standard exemption now that is $29k vs around $16-17k pre-Trump adjusted for inflation. You wouldnt be itemizing this year anyway unless you have other itemizations. If you do, apply whatever that total is with your taxes, subtract $29k, and apply your marginal rate. Let's call it $40k - itemizing is only saving you about $3k vs the standard. If yall have a decent income at all, I'd say it's unlikely to be more than a small dent vs what the brackets have saved you.
Didn't realize it jumped to 29.
I've been itemizing the last few years.
I've been itemizing the last few years.
Went from $13k to $24k as part of the change in 2018. Then went from $24 to $29 over the past 6 years.
thann07 said:
The estate tax threshold is very important to anyone who intends to keep agriculture as independent ventures. We will have a full turnover of agricultural lend within a generation without it.
If Kamala wins and reduces it further, and does away with the stepped up basis, it will accelerate even further.
#1 issue in this election to some and it isn't even discussed.
90+% of those impacted by the estate tax vote R. Senseless for the GOP to campaign on it, as they have no voters to gain, and the D's will just use it in their "party of rich people" ads.
This country in its current form is going to do jack **** about cutting spending. Everyone knows this. It's a pointless discussion.
Knowing that fact, I would simply rather keep more of my money while we gradually slide toward implosion. Thus, I do not want these tax cuts to expire and I do not care if it adds to the deficit.
It's my money and I want to keep more of it. If Congress refuses to address their out of control spending then I refuse to be ok with them keeping my money.
Knowing that fact, I would simply rather keep more of my money while we gradually slide toward implosion. Thus, I do not want these tax cuts to expire and I do not care if it adds to the deficit.
It's my money and I want to keep more of it. If Congress refuses to address their out of control spending then I refuse to be ok with them keeping my money.
We need that guy that rolled in and cut several major departments out of government (can't remember the country). That is the way.
Agsrback12 said:
We need that guy that rolled in and cut several major departments out of government (can't remember the country). That is the way.
Argentina.
Or Kevin Kline as POTUS.
I was still preparing returns back then and I would guess prior to the legislation, 60% of my folks itemized. That percentage was lower than most because a lot did not itemize because they were one generation above me (clients of the guy I bought the practice from) and they had no mortgage interest any more.DannyDuberstein said:
Went from $13k to $24k as part of the change in 2018. Then went from $24 to $29 over the past 6 years.
After the legislation that increased the standard deduction, and with the SALT limit of $10,000, unless they made significant charitable contributions they did not itemize. I would guess 10% to 15% itemized.
Good.ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
themissinglink said:
Unpopular opinion, but the tax cuts need to expire. We can't afford them. Easy to say "cut spending", but there are very few proposals (and none that substantially move the needle) which would make it through even if Republican's controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House. The only thing that could potentially move the needle is entitlement reform and neither party seems to have the stomach to actually try to address it.
The feds do not have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.
ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
If I remember correctly, it helped like 60% of taxpayers and hurt 5-10%. The rest were "neutral".
I specifically remember in the 2018 filing year having to explain to many how the tax cuts helped them even though they weren't able to itemize or their refund was lower (or owed). Part of the change was lowering withholding amounts so that people would have more money in their pocket instead of on account with the IRS. The law change was highly criticized and misunderstood because of that.
It raised my taxes. I have a large family with older children, itemize deductions, own rental properties with operating losses, have a cash-out refi, and even made too much to get Covid checks. Add that to the massive increases in social security taxes, and my bill has significantly increased.rgleml said:
Kamala wants to let Trump's 2017 tax cuts expire at the end of 2025. That would cost $1000/month for the average middle class family.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Interesting - since you are in higher tax brackets, your rate should have dropped enough to help. Did you used to take advantage of unreimbursed employee expenses? In my experience, those were the taxpayers that it hurt.
I'm not in higher tax brackets. 6 kids. Covid checks started phase-out at $150K, complete phase-out at $160K. This one hurt because it caused more inflation but I saw no cash from it.
Cash-out refi to pay for college. Interest not deductible.
Can't take operating losses on rental properties if making more than $150K.
Lost exemptions, but didn't get child tax credits.
Social security withholding limits jumped over $25K in one year.
Still itemize, so was already getting the tax break caused by raising the standard deduction. No benefit at all.
Not all of these were Trump, but they all went the same way.
It's funny - we don't want illegal immigrants, but we can't find a way to get people here legally. We want people to have more children, but we punish large families with the tax code.
Cash-out refi to pay for college. Interest not deductible.
Can't take operating losses on rental properties if making more than $150K.
Lost exemptions, but didn't get child tax credits.
Social security withholding limits jumped over $25K in one year.
Still itemize, so was already getting the tax break caused by raising the standard deduction. No benefit at all.
Not all of these were Trump, but they all went the same way.
It's funny - we don't want illegal immigrants, but we can't find a way to get people here legally. We want people to have more children, but we punish large families with the tax code.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
gigemhilo said:ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
If I remember correctly, it helped like 60% of taxpayers and hurt 5-10%. The rest were "neutral".
I specifically remember in the 2018 filing year having to explain to many how the tax cuts helped them even though they weren't able to itemize or their refund was lower (or owed). Part of the change was lowering withholding amounts so that people would have more money in their pocket instead of on account with the IRS. The law change was highly criticized and misunderstood because of that.
It was actually >80%. The NYT of all pubs had a really good interactive graph/chart showing the impact from it.
This is exactly the case. So many people mistakenly let the IRS be their off limits savings account and habitually overpay just so they can get a $4k to $8k refund each year. Doesn't make sense, but they would. That uproar by the uninformed is what prompted the revised W-4 which was purported to better tune the withholding.gigemhilo said:ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
If I remember correctly, it helped like 60% of taxpayers and hurt 5-10%. The rest were "neutral".
I specifically remember in the 2018 filing year having to explain to many how the tax cuts helped them even though they weren't able to itemize or their refund was lower (or owed). Part of the change was lowering withholding amounts so that people would have more money in their pocket instead of on account with the IRS. The law change was highly criticized and misunderstood because of that.
With the lower rates and much broader brackets at which those rate apply, most people were better off with the new tax law. And many who said they were hurt by the new law didn't do anything but compare the bottom line (their refund or what they had to pay) for one year versus the other. The only way to know how it impacted you would have been to take the numbers from 2017 and enter them in the 2018 software, or take the 2018 numbers and run them through the 2017 software.
one safe place said:This is exactly the case. So many people mistakenly let the IRS be their off limits savings account and habitually overpay just so they can get a $4k to $8k refund each year. Doesn't make sense, but they would. That uproar by the uninformed is what prompted the revised W-4 which was purported to better tune the withholding.gigemhilo said:ChoppinDs40 said:
Trumps tax breaks actually hurt some of us. $10k local tax limit sucks. Especially with the insane rise in property taxes the last few years.
If I remember correctly, it helped like 60% of taxpayers and hurt 5-10%. The rest were "neutral".
I specifically remember in the 2018 filing year having to explain to many how the tax cuts helped them even though they weren't able to itemize or their refund was lower (or owed). Part of the change was lowering withholding amounts so that people would have more money in their pocket instead of on account with the IRS. The law change was highly criticized and misunderstood because of that.
With the lower rates and much broader brackets at which those rate apply, most people were better off with the new tax law. And many who said they were hurt by the new law didn't do anything but compare the bottom line (their refund or what they had to pay) for one year versus the other. The only way to know how it impacted you would have been to take the numbers from 2017 and enter them in the 2018 software, or take the 2018 numbers and run them through the 2017 software.
We hand a 2 year comparison in our software. It came in real handy that year!
Currently, we have no vision related to the US economy.
Examples:
Kamala policy on $25k per new home buyer - Dumb! Increases deficit more, encourages fraud, and has an inflationary effect on housing.
Trump policy on not taxing tips - Dumb! Many tips aren't taxed anyways, but look for an increase in paying people through tips. Watch for the 47% number that don't pay income tax to go up.
Kamala policy on increasing biz tax rate to 28% - Dumb! Not competitive with foreign nations. Likewise, Trump's moving it to 15% is dumb as well! No need for it, because companies will relocate to US with decent taxes and stable business environment.
Trump policy on not taxing overtime - Dumb! Watch for employers to give people minimum wage to 40 hours and $50/hour on OT. Again, needle moves for the 47%.
No one has addressed the exploding budget and this is a problem.
Examples:
Kamala policy on $25k per new home buyer - Dumb! Increases deficit more, encourages fraud, and has an inflationary effect on housing.
Trump policy on not taxing tips - Dumb! Many tips aren't taxed anyways, but look for an increase in paying people through tips. Watch for the 47% number that don't pay income tax to go up.
Kamala policy on increasing biz tax rate to 28% - Dumb! Not competitive with foreign nations. Likewise, Trump's moving it to 15% is dumb as well! No need for it, because companies will relocate to US with decent taxes and stable business environment.
Trump policy on not taxing overtime - Dumb! Watch for employers to give people minimum wage to 40 hours and $50/hour on OT. Again, needle moves for the 47%.
No one has addressed the exploding budget and this is a problem.
This is pretty much spot on. Well said, sir. The "new policies" both campaigns have espoused are either inflationary or add to our budget deficit woes. Tariffs? Gimme a break. Zero attention to the dire situation confronting entitlement programs (unless you count Trump's effort to make it even worse by excusing social security income from taxation). There is no one who demonstrates an ounce of fiscal responsibility in this race. Nikki Haley briefly tried, but it turns out the people don't want to hear it or discuss it.
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