Thoughts on this, 6 min video for those interested in listening. Lots of points, so I'm not gonna give try and give a summary

Deporting millions of low wage workers while trying to take the low wage worker industries from China never made sense. We're at 4% unemployment.

Agree with Gordo on it being a terrible idea. Even if you devise a plan to make a corporate tax rate cut/tariff increase revenue neutral, I'd prefer the higher corporate tax rates for all the reasons Gordo mentioned.

The race from both sides of the political isle to see who can call for higher tariffs and appeal to union voters is really getting out of hand.

Trump wants to incentivize manufacturing and production of goods here locally. The tariffs are the mechanism to do so. We are a service and import economy. The future absolutely has to be as an export economy. The problem is, and I've outlined it multiple times, is that the timeline for the level of production (aside from O&G which can happen much quicker) to transform our economy into a net exporter economy, to explode our tax base with a new wave of investment into manufacturing, production, and world distribution that would create tons of new jobs (which would have to be coupled with significant slashing of the welfare state by cutting welfare benefits directly and cutting the disability class in half), and to see the benefits from it, is not 4 years. It might not even be 10 years. And the tariffs will have a negative impact on the short term as our economy imports much more expensive goods. This will be inflationary to the consumer, even if a re-energized and expanding economy is deflationary. It's not likely to offset significantly, if it all. And we don't have unanimous buy in from the electorate for such a transformation, so anything engaged now could be wiped away with a pen via new regulations and reversal of policy in 4 years.

I see what he's trying to do, and I might be on board if the country was more on board and I had faith that we were dedicated to get through the pain period until it materializes. Because I do think that economy would be much much better for my kids. But I just don't have that faith. Our country is far too divided and there are too many special interests with hands in the cookie jar that benefit from the current consumerism driven corporatocracy we have.

jamey said:

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We also don't have the labor for it, as we sit here at 4% unemployment.

Kicking people off welfare and sending them into the work force is not going to create any globally competitive anything, anytime soon. That could take a generation or two imo

We'd also need to hang onto all the non criminal illegals we can one way or another. Those people can make something in a globally competitive market

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Yes. Even with the welfare and entitlement reform I mentioned, it's a full business cycle worth of time before we would start to see the returns. Just not feasible given the mountain in front of us.

Repeal 16th Amendment, cancel IRS, and fund the guv on tariffs like 1880. This is the way. I'm not joking.

JSKolache said:

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Repeal 16th Amendment, cancel IRS, and fund the guv on tariffs like 1880. This is the way. I'm not joking.

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Ultimately the citizens pay the tariffs. Seems like that would make us weak


Would be interesting to find out why that experiment disappeared

themissinglink said:

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j/k… sort of…

The future does not absolutely have to be an export economy and trying to do so will significantly decrease the standard of living for anlmost Americans. Not just short term, but long-term. We need to diversify our international partners by allowing more, not less, free trade partners. The best way to do that was actually TPP, the first trade agreement Trump torpedoed when he got to office.

We don't need investment to "create" new (really old) jobs. We have 4% unemployment. That would involve people leaving their job providing higher value services for lower value products.

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Diversify some yes, but it's going to take time. We also need to bring in people from outside for science and engineering type jobs.

Right now we won't have enough people to do either higher paying science and technology or lower wage manufacturing jobs especially as Trump reports people doing those jobs now. We have to bring them back and them some to actually grow manufacturing and become an exporter

jamey said:

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We also don't have the labor for it, as we sit here at 4% unemployment.

Kicking people off welfare and sending them into the work force is not going to create any globally competitive anything, anytime soon. That could take a long time I'm afraid

We'd also need to hang onto all the non criminal illegals we can one way or another. Those people can make something in a globally competitive market

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It's a double edged sword. We have a growing number of people who aren't searching for jobs, thus aren't counted in the unemployment rate. We also have a bunch of people who think it's getting to be too expensive to have kids. So our current market solution to these issues is to import people to do these jobs to keep the economy going. These people on average will do it for cheaper than their American counterparts, which keeps salaries lower, leading to more of our citizens giving up on searching for jobs in the first place. All while we continue to devalue our currency and raise the costs of having kids, exacerbating the problem in the first place. It's a cascading set of failures by our government imo, but I don't know how to course correct without a bunch of hardship initially.

Maybe going the other way with it though. Like lowering your corporate and income tax rate if your workforce is 100% US citizens? Then grandfathering the government systems in place allowing people to not be productive. Ultimately you have to address why people aren't having kids though.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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jamey said:

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We also don't have the labor for it, as we sit here at 4% unemployment.

Kicking people off welfare and sending them into the work force is not going to create any globally competitive anything, anytime soon. That could take a long time I'm afraid

We'd also need to hang onto all the non criminal illegals we can one way or another. Those people can make something in a globally competitive market

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It's a double edged sword. We have a growing number of people who aren't searching for jobs, thus aren't counted in the unemployment rate. We also have a bunch of people who think it's getting to be too expensive to have kids. So our current market solution to these issues is to import people to do these jobs to keep the economy going. These people on average will do it for cheaper than their American counterparts, which keeps salaries lower, leading to more of our citizens giving up on searching for jobs in the first place. All while we continue to devalue our currency and raise the costs of having kids, exacerbating the problem in the first place. It's a cascading set of failures by our government imo, but I don't know how to course correct without a bunch of hardship initially.

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I agree, and it's complicated hence the comments by Heineken-Ashi on another post I believe about how success wouls require more than Trump. It's not happening during 1 term of a president and we'd need people involved across party lines which seems doable since some of this stuff like tarrifs and union support is old democrats tuff



Otherwise, the first part of your post reminded me of the opening to Iodicrcry

jamey said:

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JSKolache said:

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Repeal 16th Amendment, cancel IRS, and fund the guv on tariffs like 1880. This is the way. I'm not joking.

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Ultimately the citizens pay the tariffs. Seems like that would make us weak


Would be interesting to find out why that experiment disappeared

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That experiment ended because Woodrow Wilson envisioned a federal government staffed with an expert class making decisions for the everyday citizen and it needed to be funded. In other words this government we have today that seeks control over nearly everything was his vision. The 16th specifically was sold as a replacement for tariffs on alcohol because there was already a significant push towards what would become the 18th Amendment, Prohibition. The message was that if alcohol tariffs disappeared that income had to be replaced and an Income Tax was the way. In only the richest amount, of course. Somehow with the 21st was ratified it wasn't accompanied by an Amendment repealing the 16th.

LOYAL AG said:

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jamey said:

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JSKolache said:

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Repeal 16th Amendment, cancel IRS, and fund the guv on tariffs like 1880. This is the way. I'm not joking.

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Ultimately the citizens pay the tariffs. Seems like that would make us weak


Would be interesting to find out why that experiment disappeared

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That experiment ended because Woodrow Wilson envisioned a federal government staffed with an expert class making decisions for the everyday citizen and it needed to be funded. In other words this government we have today that seeks control over nearly everything was his vision. The 16th specifically was sold as a replacement for tariffs on alcohol because there was already a significant push towards what would become the 18th Amendment, Prohibition. The message was that if alcohol tariffs disappeared that income had to be replaced and an Income Tax was the way. In only the richest amount, of course. Somehow with the 21st was ratified it wasn't accompanied by an Amendment repealing the 16th.

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Crazy that Mrs Wilson ran the govt and was defacto President while Woodrow was suffering from a stroke during his last two years of office.