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Onsite -> Remote Transition (career path wise)

3,012 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by Sims
Sims
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8:38a, 7/19/24
AG
Not putting this on job-network intentionally - this isn't a resource post.

I've been onsite for 16 years with no real desire to entertain or seriously pursue WFH/Remote opportunities. I'm trending in that direction from an openness standpoint and was just curious how others that have done the same went through the decision making process and ultimately got comfortable with the change from on-site work.

I'm not so focused on the pros and cons of why you would do either but my hesitancy is more along the lines of how substantial are a lot of these roles and the hiring companies. My assumption is the the opportunities are a mile wide and an inch deep when it comes to remote. The companies that are hiring fully remote as such are here today and gone tomorrow is my biggest hang-up. That's mostly an unsourced hang-up, I'll readily admit that.

I'll assume the retained search folks who place candidates are probably your best source of information about the depth, longevity and resilience of the hiring companies.

For context, I would be looking for CFO roles with PE platform companies.
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Petrino1
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In reply to Sims • 9:50a, 7/19/24
Sims said:
Not putting this on job-network intentionally - this isn't a resource post.

I've been onsite for 16 years with no real desire to entertain or seriously pursue WFH/Remote opportunities. I'm trending in that direction from an openness standpoint and was just curious how others that have done the same went through the decision making process and ultimately got comfortable with the change from on-site work.

I'm not so focused on the pros and cons of why you would do either but my hesitancy is more along the lines of how substantial are a lot of these roles and the hiring companies. My assumption is the the opportunities are a mile wide and an inch deep when it comes to remote. The companies that are hiring fully remote as such are here today and gone tomorrow is my biggest hang-up. That's mostly an unsourced hang-up, I'll readily admit that.

I'll assume the retained search folks who place candidates are probably your best source of information about the depth, longevity and resilience of the hiring companies.

For context, I would be looking for CFO roles with PE platform companies.
Im confused, youre not interested in working remote but interested in learning more about remote work?

There are a lot less remote jobs these days compared to 2020-2021 era. A lot of large companies mandated return to office, or have a hybrid schedule. Its also extremely difficult to find a remote job these days since theres thousands of candidates that apply for every remote job within hours of posting.
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Sims
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In reply to Petrino1 • 10:00a, 7/19/24
AG
No, I'm increasingly interested/open to the idea and willing to work remote.

The part that I'm still trying to explore and get comfortable with is how to underwrite the stability of the position/company given the dynamic of people not being in the same office or there being a lack of an office altogether. Maybe it's just the longevity and history of a company is questionable to me if I can't see some brick and mortar manifestation of business. It's probably an archaic way of looking at things, I'm not arguing that point either.

To what degree does that impact investment in people from a personal standpoint etc. The idea that "you're just a number" I would think is even more prevalent when the executive staff can't see or hear them in a real sense.
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Petrino1
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In reply to Sims • 11:02a, 7/19/24
Sims said:
No, I'm increasingly interested/open to the idea and willing to work remote.

The part that I'm still trying to explore and get comfortable with is how to underwrite the stability of the position/company given the dynamic of people not being in the same office or there being a lack of an office altogether. Maybe it's just the longevity and history of a company is questionable to me if I can't see some brick and mortar manifestation of business. It's probably an archaic way of looking at things, I'm not arguing that point either.

To what degree does that impact investment in people from a personal standpoint etc. The idea that "you're just a number" I would think is even more prevalent when the executive staff can't see or hear them in a real sense.
Just like with anything, it depends. Ive worked for "remote first" companies where pretty much every employee was remote, including the CEO and other executives. In situations like that, youre probably pretty safe because the entire workforce is remote. Ive also worked remotely for larger corporations where a smaller percentage of employees were remote, and my job was probably a lot less stable because of that.

As a CFO, I would imagine your position will be pretty safe regardless if youre remote or in office. Ultimately, it really just depends on the financial strength and stability of the company, not necessarily a remote vs office thing.
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EliteZags
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1:04p, 7/19/24
AG
Pretend From Home
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I Am A Critic
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1:49p, 7/19/24
IMO, find the good company and then worry about whether or not you can work from home. People who want a job but their primary interest is working from home are generally not worth the trouble.
Username checks out.
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Sims
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In reply to I Am A Critic • 2:07p, 7/19/24
AG
I Am A Critic said:
IMO, find the good company and then worry about whether or not you can work from home. People who want a job but their primary interest is working from home are generally not worth the trouble.
Yeah, that's fine feedback but not really what I'm after.

The bolded part is where the question is...

Up until now, any person that has reached out to me with a WFH or Remote role, I've typically turned down without even considering a second conversation. The intended point of my discussion here was to explore (in some capacity other than financials which I'm extremely comfortable with) how to do what you suggest in a remote first role.
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Sims
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In reply to Petrino1 • 2:09p, 7/19/24
AG
I appreciate the feedback. The more I think about it, it's going to come down to the CEO and the backer.

Seems to me like there is a natural (or maybe just perceived) inertia behind in-office leadership roles whereas that may not be the case with remote.
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falconace
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1:23p, 7/29/24
I've done both in office and remote in an executive role. I've also seen a variety of remote executive situations based as a consultant.

The poster that said there is a difference if everyone is remote or not is accurate. If the rest of the C suite is remote, you're on level playing field. If the rest of the C suite is in office but you're remote, you'll suffer at times from being out of sight, out of mind.

I've been a part of executive teams that are all on site and hybrid even though most staff is remote. This works fine.

I've been a part of executive teams where the whole company is remote. This works fine.

I've also been part of executive teams where team members are not all colocated but work at offices across the country. This works fine, assuming you're not the only one not colocated with everyone else.

Where I've seen folks get into trouble is when they are part of a team where the majority is colocated amongst one (e.g. headquarters) or many geographic locations (e.g. divisions or sites) but one or two folks are full remote. In that case, the remote folks are on an island and miss out on the drive byes, water cooler talk, and are out of sight out of mind.
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MemphisAg1
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In reply to falconace • 10:02p, 7/29/24
AG
Nailed it. Your location needs to match that of other key executives, whether remote or in office.
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MPython43
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11:02p, 7/29/24
I'm a CEO of a PE platform who is currently wrapping up a CFO search.

To us, and the large, reputable PE firm behind us, CFO is the most important position to have in-office around their team.

All the experienced PE CFOs I interviewed had the same opinion, but expressed the same, recent frustration we have been experiencing that finance and accounting folks all want to WFH, especially the ones who don't seem to merit that privilege.

I would have been more open to going with a remote CFO if my back was against the wall and they were willing to be at HQ ~50% of the time, but no way my investors would have supported that.

We started our PortCo during COVID, so everyone was remote across the country. Finance absolutely crashed and burned in that environment while we tried to integrate the 17 QB instances we acquired into one clean set of books in Intacct.


Anyway, one guys experience…. Lots of ways to skin the cat, though.
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ToddyHill
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In reply to I Am A Critic • 7:57a, 7/30/24
AG
Quote:
People who want a job but their primary interest is working from home are generally not worth the trouble.
An exception would be the spouse of a career military individual who goes through PCS (Permanent Change of Station) every three years.
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Sims
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In reply to MPython43 • 8:10a, 7/30/24
AG
MPython43 said:

All the experienced PE CFOs I interviewed had the same opinion, but expressed the same, recent frustration we have been experiencing that finance and accounting folks all want to WFH, especially the ones who don't seem to merit that privilege.
First, thank you for the comments.

Also, I've experienced the same when looking to backfill AP/AR positions.

Interestingly enough, a year or so ago we jumped into machine learning on our inbound invoices. That process has matured to a point now where the system is even (mostly) able to correctly code handwritten invoices. Those types of things have taken a LOT of strain out of the equation when faced with replacing anyone on the AP side of things. Originally that required someone to feed a scanner with invoices...now we're able to pull those in directly from email and a phone app I made through Powerapps.

True AI, not really what we have now, is going to really through corp. treasury staffs for a loop.
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Sims
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In reply to falconace • 8:16a, 7/30/24
AG
Thank you for the post.

My experience has been 90% in trades related companies... mining & manufacturing. That's really what I enjoy so I don't see myself ending up in a financial services or tech firm that I could see being 100% remote.

We've done some toll processing so I could see that as being about as far out on the spectrum as I might get with respect to a "fully remote" workforce. Even then, they're not remote, they're just not familiar to me.

Personally, I feel an obligation to be present where the physical demand of work is happening and that's probably a lot of the reason why I haven't looked at remote roles. Several of the most positive cost driver discoveries I've been around for have come from conversations with front line folks and not their leads/supervisors etc.
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YouBet
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In reply to Sims • 1:40a, 8/1/24
AG
I think falcon nailed this but mpython made a good call out specifically with CFOs.

I'm a remote exec and we are 100% remote including the CEO. We started that way (we are a startup) but there will come a time that we move to hybrid at which point we will have to make a decision on moving. I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I likely retire when that happens as I have no desire to move to AUS where we are officially headquartered.

Interestingly, we are having the most problems with Finance being remote and specifically with AR/AP. I'm actually looking to automate this process with ML and/or AI myself because people doing this remote are not working out. I think our CFO is going to stroke out not being able to have people he can get to in person. lol.
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AgLA06
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In reply to YouBet • 10:32a, 8/1/24
AG
I'm curious as to why do y'all think finance being remote is struggling? This is for either of y'all that have mentioned it.

Having had roles in global product and project management I've rarely had the ability to have key members of the team in one place. It's was the norm to juggle time zones with remote calls and video calls for meetings not only with project teams and suppliers, but also with customers. Corporate finance was in a different state than our division for one of those and face to face was quarterly more to build relationships.

I'm struggling to see what can't be done in a remote setting that needs in person. None of the cost accounting, currency hedging, milestone billing, etc needed in person meetings. It's easy to share a screen to see anything needing to discussed in granularity.

Is it less a finance issue or more a C suite is having difficulty adjusting to communication platforms and methods?
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chris1515
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3:59p, 8/1/24
AG
When I hear "finance" I don't think of AR/AP.

In my experience those are lower level functions that sometimes have either a lot of turnover, or staff that's been there forever and is not the most flexible/open to change. That might be part of the issue there.
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Troglodyte
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In reply to Sims • 4:13p, 8/1/24
AG
Sims said:
To what degree does that impact investment in people from a personal standpoint etc. The idea that "you're just a number" I would think is even more prevalent when the executive staff can't see or hear them in a real sense.


Im trying to reconcile this paragraph with you saying you are looking for a CFO role. Isn't a CFO a top 2-3 executive. How is a CFO just a number? How much do you expect any CEO to invest in from a personal standpoint?
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Troglodyte
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4:20p, 8/1/24
AG
If accounting, AR and AP employees can work 100% remote, they can work in India.
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jh0400
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8:13p, 8/1/24
AG
We have AP and AR mostly remote. General and revenue accounting are in the office 2-3 days per week. IR is in the office if not on the road at an NDR. FP&A is in three days per week. For roles that benefit from an apprenticeship culture, in person at least part of the time greatly accelerates learning relative to 100% remote.
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Sims
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In reply to Troglodyte • 8:26p, 8/1/24
AG
At my level, I don't feel or perceive that at all. I was more just using the colloquialism as a reference to the impersonality of the staff being remote and unattached to one another. Furthermore, it's probably an assumption/projection onto direct reports and how they'd perceive their position.
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Sims
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In reply to chris1515 • 8:28p, 8/1/24
AG
It's part of it, sure. Treasury, fp&a, controller functions... it's all finance. AP and AR certainly sit near the bottom of that totem.
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AgLA06
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In reply to Troglodyte • 2:26p, 8/3/24
AG
Troglodyte said:
If accounting, AR and AP employees can work 100% remote, they can work in India.


There's a large jump between the 2.

Cultural differences, customs, expectations, and ability to communicate make that very difficult for just about any role that people want to offshore. I've yet to see that move payoff even in industries where remote teams are the norm. I've had a couple experiences with it and the cost ended up the same or more with work completion taking much longer.

For things like generic websites or advertising probably. Otherwise I don't see it, yet.

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Sims
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In reply to AgLA06 • 8:02a, 8/5/24
AG
AgLA06 said:
Troglodyte said:
If accounting, AR and AP employees can work 100% remote, they can work in India.


There's a large jump between the 2.

Cultural differences, customs, expectations, and ability to communicate make that very difficult for just about any role that people want to offshore. I've yet to see that move payoff even in industries where remote teams are the norm. I've had a couple experiences with it and the cost ended up the same or more with work completion taking much longer.

For things like generic websites or advertising probably. Otherwise I don't see it, yet.

The only clear cut, undisputed win I've seen for moving AR and AP overseas is your own working capital cycle.

All of our large customers (except for Oxy, bless them) and a couple suppliers have outsourced those functions overseas and just the time-zone differences alone account for probably a 2-3 boost in working capital on disputed/questioned invoicing.
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