Fire is burning inside me to start one of these in or around where we live. For a multitude of reasons, including population rise, entertainment, practice availability, lessons, etc. Has anyone been involved in the process starting one, know someone who did? Really want to pick the brain of someone who has.

I tried to do the math on these a couple years ago and couldn't make it work without assuming I'd be there working full time. The startup costs are so high for the launch monitors and facilities and liquor license etc I couldn't figure it out. Maybe if you have access to easier financing it would cash flow

Do you live anywhere near a Top Golf, Big Shots or Popstroke? That seems like a tough market but I've never looked into it. I live in Phoenix which is pretty golf centric and only know of one place that fits the description of what I think you're describing. It's a couple of blocks from me but I never see much crowd there.

Honest question - who's the target market?

I'm a self confessed "range rat" who LOVES to pound out buckets of balls on the range.

I've never been to Top Golf - and for some reason I'm just not all that interested....it seems more of a video game and I just can't find the interest.

But a facility with Trackman, launch monitors, V Golf, etc. sounds like something that I'd be interested in.

This place opened in the fall here in Frisco. Seems like it might be what you're envisioning.

https://www.thelocalopen.com/

I haven't been, but maybe go check it out and see if the owner is interested in chatting.

It can be an indoor only facility. Don't know the biz side, but it doesn't have to be the outdoor top golf kinda setup.

This place is in Sugar Land.

https://theperfectroundgolf.com/

This place in Flower Mound/Highland Village is really cool.

https://revsgl.com

Where we live the closet Top Golf is over an hour, PopStroke over 1.5 hours, Big Shots on other side of metro, 2 hours. So not anything in terms of market saturation for something like this.

The local golf course in town closes when it sprinkles and the conditions can be iffy most of the year, but it serves its purpose. The local high school golf team suffers when it has to close, they have nothing to offer on campus. Other than that its one public course nearby in a neighboring city, the rest are private. Then its a further drive for the next public offering. City is booming at an incredible rate.

Id consider a set up with bays similar to that of PGA Superstore. You can play 18, or practice, gather club data for your own setup. Further down the line, start offering lessons, club fittings. There would be a putting green area to work short game. Ive seen even an indoor range set up where its 1 long mat with stations and one large screen everyone would hit into. Lounge areas scattered around, depending on size of the space. Retail eventually of own brand, and/or other brands.

Local high schools, with coordination in the district, could utilize for practice when weather is an issue.

The private club alternative to the others that have been referenced - https://www.intowngolfclub.com/

In the right market/location, I see this model definitely working. Private club experience, except the golf is indoor simulators. Target audience is likely already a private CC member, and that CC likely already has Trackman/simulator, but competing for time with hundreds of other members for 1-2 bays.

Don't know exact costs, but I've heard $5k initiation & $200-300/mo. Just another line item on the budget for the right market/demographic.

I can't even begin to imagine the upfront investment for that. The dining and other facilities would be way up in the millions.

SkierAg said:

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Where we live the closet Top Golf is over an hour, PopStroke over 1.5 hours, Big Shots on other side of metro, 2 hours. So not anything in terms of market saturation for something like this.

The local golf course in town closes when it sprinkles and the conditions can be iffy most of the year, but it serves its purpose. The local high school golf team suffers when it has to close, they have nothing to offer on campus. Other than that its one public course nearby in a neighboring city, the rest are private. Then its a further drive for the next public offering. City is booming at an incredible rate.

Id consider a set up with bays similar to that of PGA Superstore. You can play 18, or practice, gather club data for your own setup. Further down the line, start offering lessons, club fittings. There would be a putting green area to work short game. Ive seen even an indoor range set up where its 1 long mat with stations and one large screen everyone would hit into. Lounge areas scattered around, depending on size of the space. Retail eventually of own brand, and/or other brands.

Local high schools, with coordination in the district, could utilize for practice when weather is an issue.

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So, more of a teaching facility.

Here's a couple of folks that I follow on Instagram that have similar operations:

Kyle Morris - The Golf Room - this guy is up North, I really like his set up
Athletic Motion Golf - lots of YouTube content from these guys teaching, but they have this facility in Orlando

jja79 said:

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I can't even begin to imagine the upfront investment for that. The dining and other facilities would be way up in the millions.

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Why?? It's not like you are acquiring land like Top Golf or Big Shots. You are leasing & finishing out office space. Incrementally nicer & more expensive than the public options referenced in this thread, but not multiples of.

I might be wrong but to set up dining and other facilities like a private club would have to be much nicer than a most restaurants and certainly nicer than Top Golf's dining areas. As I said I could be wrong but the link provided looked very high end.

Perhaps it's just the people I know, but I feel like a good portion of your higher revenue target audience already has their own setup at home.

This place is in my town of 60-70k people.

https://theswingbays.com/

We have a top golf less than 10 miles away. We also have 10+ golf courses within 10 miles for downtown Parker (SE Denver)

This place is inconspicuously in between a safeway and a planet fitness, so I can't imagine it's all that busy.. however they have a membership/package concept, so they get large chunks of revenue at a time. You can't just go in and get a bay for 2 hours.

Each pass is 1 hour;

• 100 passes for $2,000 ($20 per pass)

• 75 passes for $1,800 ($24 per pass)

• 50 passes for $1,500 ($30 per pass)

• 25 passes for $875 ($35 per pass)

They have 6 trackman bays

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this place is closed within a few years, although on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if they were doing really well. We have a ton of golf people in the area clearly with the amount of courses nearby.

This is very similar to how I envision the layout of what I am wanting.

I've thought it would be cool to have a combo of the indoor/outdoor venues.

You'd have a multi-tier, covered driving range on one side. It could be fairly basic, with some seating behind the hitting area, so you could still socialize and hit...but also, simply practice if you're a golfer.

A bar/coffee shop in the middle.

The indoor screens on the other, with seating for various sized parties.

That way you can actually go and practice if you'd like, but you can also socialize with people if you just want to have fun. The indoor screens also make it a viable option during the cold months, so you still have income coming in.

I looked into a few of the franchises in the past, for giggles. The Topshots was something like a 200k franchise fee, and 13 million dollar investment. Top Golf was quite a bit more.

I think you could do something really cool, at a fraction of that cost.

There's a loft 18 in Houston and pretty sure it does well. Some of the biggest golfers I know (near scratch and play multiple times a week) go quite a bit. I think for that crowd it's better than top golf. They go at least once a week for a league they're in, but usually go more than that.

I haven't been to this one yet, but some buddies have.

https://www.1611golf.com/about

https://thelocaldrive.com/

I played in some indoor leagues this winter at a simulator bar about 30 minutes from my house (20 minutes from my office). My buddy and I actually quit the winter Topgolf league we had played in and felt we made the right decision. These guys seem to be doing ok with their location in Denver and the one in Longmont ("my" location). The leagues had about 45 team participants between the two locations. You could only play Sunday-Wednesday since they are obviously more booked up on the other days.

We went a couple other Saturdays/Sundays when the courses were closed due to snow. We would book 4 hours and I'd spend roughly $100 on the time (it was discounted because a member booked the bay), drinks, and a food order. So cheaper than going to a course other than my home course where I volunteer, but not quite the same satisfaction as playing golf (Well, not as satisfying as playing GOOD golf).

Another friend in the Longmont area has the membership which is 90 minutes a day which can be used up until 4pm each day and you're blacked out Saturday. You get discounts on additional time and other things like the league entry fees.

My biggest complaint with the whole setup is short game and the fact you dont get to putt. It's very frustrating to hit short shots around greens. I also wish you could putt but it just gives you a 1,2,or 3 putt depending on where you land on the green.

They have a high end selection of alcohol and craft beer which is priced accordingly. They have a food truck that is good, but operates somewhat sporadically. The best food option is a pizza joint a block away that you can order from and they walk it over. Very good food, but I got a bit turned off when they started automatically adding a 25% gratuity to every order.

Overall, I like the place, but probably will not visit until it snows again. There is a very good practice facility at the course 5 minutes from my office. I don't think I would buy a membership because it's just a bit too far away from me to take advantage of on a lunch break. I'm also not huge into the numbers that trackman provides and I dont chase equipment.

Turns out we have a second one of these in my town.. I actually had the locations confused and thought swingbays was in this spot. Swingbays is literally 1/2 mile from this place as the crow flies

https://www.2eaglegolf.com/

but, these two businesses exist with a top golf about 7 miles away.

I'd agree with jja that your expense to get this started will be in excess of $1MM even scaled back a bit. Not sure where you are located but that's a lot of risk given that one of these established outfits could open a location near you.

https://shortgameusa.com/

This just opened near me. Despite the name it's not all short game stuff. I have not been and have no idea how it's doing financially.

TheRatt87 said:

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The private club alternative to the others that have been referenced - https://www.intowngolfclub.com/

In the right market/location, I see this model definitely working. Private club experience, except the golf is indoor simulators. Target audience is likely already a private CC member, and that CC likely already has Trackman/simulator, but competing for time with hundreds of other members for 1-2 bays.

Don't know exact costs, but I've heard $5k initiation & $200-300/mo. Just another line item on the budget for the right market/demographic.

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In case there were any doubts about this private club model working in the right market/location, here are some details that I recently learned about their initial Atlanta location:
- 700+ current members
- 2000+ currently on wait list
- $10k initiation
- $250/mo dues
- Almost every member is also a member at a standard private golf/country club

Several new locations opening throughout the country in the next 24 months.

How much do you think one of those would cost to open?

The top of the line simulators are what $50K each. (so 4 bays is $200,000)

Restaurant/bar buildout at least $500K.

Start up supplies $100K

$750 - $1.25MM ??

I'll invest with you jja79 as long as its close to my house (Spring Branch/Memorial)

I live in Arizona so I'll pass on that location.

You probably would need an expensive GM on board during the process so that might be low.

A business partner and I considered this a few years ago. The area is in the northern US where you get to play golf outside 5-6 months per year. No competiton.

We couldn't quite figure out out what it would cost but we figured upwards of $60,000 per bay including the building out.

We wanted liquor license and food options (he has a little background there) and we just couldn't see a way to do it without investors.

Luckily, we didn't get too far into exploring the project and found out that one was opening just down the road from where we planned. Obviously, we didn't proceed.

We have still discussed opening one in another location in Nebraska close to where he grew up.

Good luck and let us know what you determine.

We've had two of these open in Jenks, OK (essentially the Sugarland of Tulsa) and both have failed pretty miserably. Not sure if they were run poorly, or what caused the failures, but I share just as a cautionary tale.