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Would you transfer to Robinhood for 3% match?

7,627 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by EliteZags
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
I'm not a fan of Robinhood and having my money tied up over there for five years, but the thought that I could make an easy 3% ($20k) for transferring over retirement accounts is appealing. Anyone done this? Other than the $60/yr subscription fee for "Gold" and the clawback period, any other obvious downsides? I'm with Fidelity currently.
Quote:

It's easy to fund from outside accounts, transfer an existing IRA, or roll over an old 401(k). You'll get 1% on top, no matter how much you transfer. Or with Robinhood Gold, you'll get 3% (rollovers and transfers get 3% until April 30).

https://robinhood.com/us/en/about/retirement/

https://cdn.robinhood.com/assets/robinhood/legal/Robinhood_Gold_IRA_Deposits_Match_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf
Heineken-Ashi
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Ask yourself, what on their balance sheet is so bad that they are willing to give away money to entice new deposits?
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
So is the consensus that Robinhood is going to fail in the next 5 years and SIPC won't backstop them? Or the hassle of a potential failure is just too high?
Petrino1
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Heineken-Ashi said:

Ask yourself, what on their balance sheet is so bad that they are willing to give away money to entice new deposits?
A lot of large brokerage companies like FIdelity and Schwab offer bonuses for new customers/deposits, I dont think that in itself is a red flag. The red flag is putting a lot of your retirement money in Robinhood, which would make me nervous given their history.
ac04
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absolutely not, turning off the buy button for GME during that whole fiasco alone is enough to disqualify them for me. would not deposit anything there for any reason.
RangerRick9211
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AG
Heineken-Ashi said:

Ask yourself, what on their balance sheet is so bad that they are willing to give away money to entice new deposits?


I don't think it's complicated. Users are revenue.

We don't need to speculate, they are public: https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001783879/6396c5eb-b850-4489-9c2e-22fc18a4cced.html#

So everyone starring this balance sheet query, what on the BS does concern you?

To OP, I'm considering it as well. Between the wife and I and our rollovers, it would be a nice chunk. I understand the FDIC cash sweep, but I'm not brining $1.5 in cash. I'm brining securities and they claim SIPC + an additional policy of $50m for any customer's securities (but aggregate caps at $1b for all users).

https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/how-youre-protected/

I want more info the additional policy. We're nowhere near the top end, but more than SIPC limits. But in reality, shares are just shares, they are mine, and if I play a HOOD failure forward I don't see how it's anything but an in-kind transfer to a new broker. I'm sure it's a headache, but what is the real risk to securities?
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
If you have your funds spread across multiple accounts (your traditional IRA, your Roth IRA, SEP IRA, a rollover IRA, her IRAs, etc.) each receives separate SIPC coverage limits. We are spread across 6 IRA accounts with none of them individually pushing $500k.

More discussion over at Bogleheads where they seem more receptive to the idea:
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=410277

Interesting point is that the tax treatment on these bonuses seems to be non-taxable on Roth accounts at the moment, not sure if that will be revised.
RangerRick9211
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AG
As a buy-and-hold, I can't envision a real risk with SIPC, then. If HOOD fails, I most likely in-kind to another broker. A headache certainly, and there would be a period where I have no control to sell, but I'm buy-and-hold with IRAs for another decade. But the shares are mine and registered on DTC (like every other broker). That doesn't change if HOOD fails.

You can argue fraud, but they're public now. It's not bullet-proof, but it's hard to hide from the SEC.

I'm inclined to go for it. Will report back if I follow-through!
TriAg2010
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AG
ac04 said:

absolutely not, turning off the buy button for GME during that whole fiasco alone is enough to disqualify them for me. would not deposit anything there for any reason.


And what exactly was wrong with doing that? Those were extremely risky trades for the broker not just the investor trying to place the order. It's crazy to fault them for not accepting the risk of huge losses on their own books so idiots could trade their meme stock of the day.
Pinochet
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I thought they turned off the sell button?
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
Pinochet said:

I thought they turned off the sell button?

Buy button was turned off. Hence the sell off.

PS- see Dumb Money on Netflix
Definitely Not A Cop
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AG
TriAg2010 said:

ac04 said:

absolutely not, turning off the buy button for GME during that whole fiasco alone is enough to disqualify them for me. would not deposit anything there for any reason.


And what exactly was wrong with doing that? Those were extremely risky trades for the broker not just the investor trying to place the order. It's crazy to fault them for not accepting the risk of huge losses on their own books so idiots could trade their meme stock of the day.


You don't understand why a company that named themselves after a guy who ripped off the rich and gives to the poor getting busted doing the exact opposite turned out to be a bad look for them?
EliteZags
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wouldn't getting the 3% in Roth be the most bang for the buck since it's an immediate 3% that doesn't impact contribution limit, can appreciate, and never subject to taxes?

where's the 401K/tIRA match's value will eventually be <3% when withdrawn/taxed?


in other words, if you were on the fence about transferring in the first place whether due to mutual fund/ETF conversions or just moving too much in one brokerage, wouldn't you prioritize doing it with at least Roth first since Roth dollars are more valuable/limited and more a of no-brainer to max over 401K, plus the complete tax avoidance
insulator_king
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A lot of fees.

https://cdn.robinhood.com/assets/robinhood/legal/RHF%20Fee%20Schedule.pdf

Particularly egregious - Instant Bank Transfers - Withdrawals from your Robinhood Account are charged 1.75% !
Diggity
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AG
that's for an "instant" transfer. Most services charge a premium for that. I'm sure regular 2-3 day transfers aren't hit with that fee.
EliteZags
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seems like this is being done commonly, any thoughts

Quote:

since with Gold the first $1000 of margin is "Free", that what I plan to do is transfer $2k into the taxable account, enable margin, buy $3k of SGOV, and then the $1k on margin will earn me ~5% or ~50/yr, and pay for 2/3 of the Gold fee

then keeping Gold will allow the 3% match on each year's Roth contributions, with the caveat being those being locked up another 5 years at RH
RangerRick9211
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RangerRick9211 said:

As a buy-and-hold, I can't envision a real risk with SIPC, then. If HOOD fails, I most likely in-kind to another broker. A headache certainly, and there would be a period where I have no control to sell, but I'm buy-and-hold with IRAs for another decade. But the shares are mine and registered on DTC (like every other broker). That doesn't change if HOOD fails.

You can argue fraud, but they're public now. It's not bullet-proof, but it's hard to hide from the SEC.

I'm inclined to go for it. Will report back if I follow-through!
My transfer hit today and bonuses on both Roth and Trad (former 401(k) rollover). That was an easy $22k.

I opened the wife a HOOD account and will also transfer hers.
Algorithmic Epiphany
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I remember when PokerStars or other poker tables would offer bonus money to play with when you put money in.

Same.Energy.

It's gambling, degenerate gambling, controlled by a "house" that profits off users and "I'm gonna win this next hand" mentality while having the ability to tilt the programming in their favor on a whim at any point.

Robinhood FRONT RUNS everything on their platform. Dafuq is wrong with you people.
Josepi
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AG
Why am I not surprised that 90% of your posts are on the politics board?
RangerRick9211
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AG
Phew, liking buy-and-hold in Trad and Roth IRA to degenerate gambling is certainly a take.

Front running is illegal. But if you're worried, use a limit order. You should do that anyways.

Nearly all brokers PFOF. However, for this reason, my taxable/options account is at one of the few that don't: IBKR. My fills matter there and I pay for DAS.
Algorithmic Epiphany
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PFOF is in the crosshairs of the SEC to be banned, similar to what UK and Canada have already done.

Robinhood was fined nearly 70M for misleading investors.

Robinhood removed the buy button for GME because it affected their actual customers Citadel and the like, and the consumers of Robinhood are not the customers of robinhood, the consumers are the product, that's why it's "free".

Robinhood has gamified investing, turning into a new version of degenerate gambling. Just one more leveraged trade and I'll be whole again!

You do you guys, pain is the only thing that brings maturity.
TxAG#2011
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Not that it actually matters in this instance but since we are piling on, Robinhood sold and delisted all their customers SOL at like $16 /coin.... it's at $95 now 6 months later. Oof
P.H. Dexippus
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I don't think anyone on this thread is discussing leveraged trading. Hell, I don't even trade inside my retirement accounts, I just stack VTI for the most part. If you're moving a six figure retirement account to RH to take advantage of this 3% incentive, not to day trade meme stocks with your Starbucks barista tip money, I think the requisite maturity is already there.
RangerRick9211
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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

PFOF is in the crosshairs of the SEC to be banned, similar to what UK and Canada have already done.
Again, all trader brokers sans Fidelity and IBKR PFOF. What is the material impact on a buy-and-hold account?

Quote:

Robinhood removed the buy button for GME because it affected their actual customers Citadel and the like, and the consumers of Robinhood are not the customers of robinhood, the consumers are the product, that's why it's "free".
TDA, Schwab and IBKR also limited trading of GME.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/interactive-brokers-restricted-gamestop-trading-to-protect-the-market-says-chairman-peterffy.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/27/business/gamestop-td-ameritrade-robinhood.html

Quote:

Robinhood has gamified investing, turning into a new version of degenerate gambling. Just one more leveraged trade and I'll be whole again!
I do own PSLDX and I do leverage CSPs. But not at HOOD and not in my Roth or Trad.


Quote:

You do you guys, pain is the only thing that brings maturity.

Lol.
EliteZags
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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

I remember when PokerStars or other poker tables would offer bonus money to play with when you put money in.

Same.Energy.

It's gambling, degenerate gambling, controlled by a "house" that profits off users and "I'm gonna win this next hand" mentality while having the ability to tilt the programming in their favor on a whim at any point.

Robinhood FRONT RUNS everything on their platform. Dafuq is wrong with you people.

this got me to thinking how great it'd be if RH put restrictions on the match like sports betting deposit bonuses where there's like a 5x rollover requirement, as in you'd have to successfully hit five separate 2x trades with the match before being able to cash out
EliteZags
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re: Pro Rata Rule

So I have a Roth with Vanguard and a Traditional IRA which I opened solely for contributing/converting backdoor Roth, I have an old 401K with Fidelity and another with JH.

So I was mainly wanting to transfer Roth anyways since those bonus dollars are more valuable and was on the fence with 401K, but looking more into it since transferring 401K would involve rolling into traditional IRA at RH, which would hinder future backdoor Roth contributions due to Pro Rata Rule correct?

with this being the case I'd probably opt to keep my 401K's in place to preserve ability of future backdoor Roth contributions



Quote:

Let's say you have $100,000 in a Traditional IRA, $7,000 of which came from non-deductible contributions. Because you've already paid taxes on $7,000, the IRS will not require you to pay taxes on that amount twice. Some retirement savers believe that, since they've already paid taxes on that amount, they can then convert $7,000 to a Roth IRA without paying taxes again. By law, though, you cannot dictate that your Roth conversion will only use those after-tax funds.
If you'd like to convert $7,000 to a Roth IRA, you will need to calculate how much of your IRA funds are actually taxable. The IRS requires you to include the value of all your non-Roth IRAs as the basis. The formula for tax purposes looks like this:
  • (non-deductible amount) / (total of all non-Roth IRA balances) = non-taxable percentage
  • (amount to be converted to Roth IRA) x (non-taxable percentage) = amount of after-tax funds converted to Roth IRA
In other words, 7% of the $100,000 is non-taxable since you already paid taxes on those $7,000. But if you want to convert $7,000 to a Roth IRA, in reality, the converted amount comes from 93% pre-tax funds and only 7% after-tax funds. You'll have to pay taxes on 93%, or $6,510, of the converted amount. By the same token, that means $6,510 of the original non-deductible $7,000 is still in the Traditional IRA, and any future after-tax contributions to your non-Roth IRAs will further complicate your Pro-Rata percentage, making future withdrawals messier than you might assume.
nortex97
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AG
*****robinhood forever. Horrible people, I can't imagine anchoring any money into their company/crap for one single day let alone 5 years.
ac04
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GME up ~100% pre-market. robinhood turns off the buy button and cancels all existing orders. real nice shop
RangerRick9211
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AG
ac04 said:

GME up ~100% pre-market overnight market. robinhood turns off the buy button and cancels all existing orders. real nice shop
Fixed it for you.

They did not turn off the buy button. Buys were rejected per overnight controls,
Quote:

BOATS has its own risk controls to prevent stocks from trading more than 20% above or below the price established near the end of an extended hours trading session. Public exchanges have similar controls to prevent extreme price movements during market hours, including Limit Up and Limit Down halts.

BOATS uses price bands based on the 7:30 PM ET market price to help mitigate large price movements. This means individual securities in the 24 Hour Market won't trade outside these pricing bands. BOATS may also reject orders with limit prices outside of these price bands.
https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/24hour-market/

Blue Ocean Alternative Trading Systems: https://irp.cdn-website.com/815393a4/files/uploaded/BOATS%20Trading%20Rules%20DTG%20210520.pdf
ac04
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great news, it wasn't actually robinhood, those are just the rules their ****ty broker uses in their fake overnight market!
OldArmyCT
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AG
That 3% is taxable, right? No matter what account it goes in. That matters to old guys on Medicare, especially if you have a large account.
RangerRick9211
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ac04 said:

great news, it wasn't actually robinhood, those are just the rules their ****ty broker uses in their fake overnight market!
So ****ty that IBKR also uses them. Okie dokie, my guy.

https://investors.interactivebrokers.com/en/general/about/mediaRelations/7-25-23.php

Anymore, yeah buts?
ac04
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not sure why you're so defensive, you're clearly very happy with your decision. you got an impressive 3% bonus that you're very proud of and that's great.

i'm just some guy on the internet who thinks RH is a scammy bucket shop that has proven many times they will protect the interests of their partners and financiers at the expense of their customers. but who cares what i think?
EliteZags
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OldArmyCT said:

That 3% is taxable, right? No matter what account it goes in. That matters to old guys on Medicare, especially if you have a large account.
nope unlike pretty much every other retirement transfer bonus that gets deposited into taxable account, RH Roth transfer bonus went directly into Roth upfront, totally tax free, and on top of contribution limits making it the biggest no brainer, got pretty much a free extra year's contribution for transferring

401K rollover transfer bonus went into the traditional IRA so will eventually be taxed, which combined with inhibiting backdoor Roth was just enough for me to hold back on transferring my old 401Ks which would've been more substantial
RangerRick9211
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ac04 said:

not sure why you're so defensive, you're clearly very happy with your decision. you got an impressive 3% bonus that you're very proud of and that's great.

i'm just some guy on the internet who thinks RH is a scammy bucket shop that has proven many times they will protect the interests of their partners and financiers at the expense of their customers. but who cares what i think?


You resurrected a four month old thread on wrong facts and doubled down. I don't get your MO.

And yes, I am happy with my free $40k.
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