If you want to live in the City or Houston and have kids it's gonna cost close to $250K.
One-Third of Americans Making $250,000 Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck, Survey Finds
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Last: 1 mo ago by redassfella2024
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
au contraire mein AggieYouBet said:I hate to tell you this but you aren't retiring in 6 years if you only have $700K right now and expect to live to the normal statistical age or beyond it.LMCane said:GE said:LMCane said:
but at the same time I am on pace to retire a millionaire by age 57. (6 years)
so I have $700K in savings/401K/personal brokerage/crypto (not including half million dollar house) but only a few hundred dollars in cash
Only way you pull that off is if you are single and you plan on living in a box eating ramen every meal, or crypto skyrockets to lotto levels.
I am single, with an additional $105,000 in equity already in my house in Maryland that I am not counting on.
I just put $40,000 into the stock market at years long lows
you don't think a single person with no kids can retire on a million dollars in savings, $3445 a month in social security, and a house nearly paid off?!?!
ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
Well, I said you could if you are single, but you aren't going to be living large. And that may not be a priority at all which is cool. You will need to figure out healthcare for a few years until Medicare kicks in. That may not be cheap and may not cover what you need.LMCane said:au contraire mein AggieYouBet said:I hate to tell you this but you aren't retiring in 6 years if you only have $700K right now and expect to live to the normal statistical age or beyond it.LMCane said:GE said:LMCane said:
but at the same time I am on pace to retire a millionaire by age 57. (6 years)
so I have $700K in savings/401K/personal brokerage/crypto (not including half million dollar house) but only a few hundred dollars in cash
Only way you pull that off is if you are single and you plan on living in a box eating ramen every meal, or crypto skyrockets to lotto levels.
I am single, with an additional $105,000 in equity already in my house in Maryland that I am not counting on.
I just put $40,000 into the stock market at years long lows
you don't think a single person with no kids can retire on a million dollars in savings, $3445 a month in social security, and a house nearly paid off?!?!
ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
and there's no possibility it could continue to go down. Guaranteed money!!!!LMCane said:au contraire mein AggieYouBet said:I hate to tell you this but you aren't retiring in 6 years if you only have $700K right now and expect to live to the normal statistical age or beyond it.LMCane said:GE said:LMCane said:
but at the same time I am on pace to retire a millionaire by age 57. (6 years)
so I have $700K in savings/401K/personal brokerage/crypto (not including half million dollar house) but only a few hundred dollars in cash
Only way you pull that off is if you are single and you plan on living in a box eating ramen every meal, or crypto skyrockets to lotto levels.
I am single, with an additional $105,000 in equity already in my house in Maryland that I am not counting on.
I just put $40,000 into the stock market at years long lows
you don't think a single person with no kids can retire on a million dollars in savings, $3445 a month in social security, and a house nearly paid off?!?!
LMCane said:GE said:I'm having a tough time computing living paycheck to paycheck while also being on track to retire at age 57 in 6 years. I always think about living paycheck to paycheck as spending all your money from this paycheck on expenses with nothing leftover to save or investLMCane said:it doesn't matter the actual salary one has-Ranger222 said:
Someone give me $250K/year and I'll tell you if its true
a person with a $55K salary can save and end up a millionaire by age 65.
a person with a $220K salary can spend everything and end up with little by age 65.
it's the person- not the salary.
most americans have no patience to defer gratification and plan for a year in the future- much less 30 years in the future.
I'm living paycheck to paycheck now only because I bought a new house in 2020 and have pumped all my cash into BTC, ETH and 95% of it into the stock market in the last 3 months.
but at the same time I am on pace to retire a millionaire by age 57. (6 years)
that is the quibble I have with these sensationalist articles.
what EXACTLY is "living paycheck to paycheck"?
are they stating that 35% of the working public have ZERO SAVINGS?
or are they saying that 35% of the working public has ZERO CASH?
I have always had a cash buffer of about 6 months over the last 25 years of working as an attorney- until the last 4 months when I bought a house (downpayment and closing costs) in Sept 2020 and then spent the rest of my cash pumping into my Fidelity Brokerage and coinbase accounts.
so I have $700K in savings/401K/personal brokerage/crypto (not including half million dollar house) but only a few hundred dollars in cash
At least you have a plan. 95% of the people on here do not. Best of luck and I hope those investments hit big.
Rich people buy assets; poor people buy liabilities. Do this for 10-20 years and the difference in net worth can be staggering.
1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
Do you live in MD or is that an investment property? I discourage people from including primary home equity in their net worth calc because you have to live somewhere.LMCane said:au contraire mein AggieYouBet said:I hate to tell you this but you aren't retiring in 6 years if you only have $700K right now and expect to live to the normal statistical age or beyond it.LMCane said:GE said:LMCane said:
but at the same time I am on pace to retire a millionaire by age 57. (6 years)
so I have $700K in savings/401K/personal brokerage/crypto (not including half million dollar house) but only a few hundred dollars in cash
Only way you pull that off is if you are single and you plan on living in a box eating ramen every meal, or crypto skyrockets to lotto levels.
I am single, with an additional $105,000 in equity already in my house in Maryland that I am not counting on.
I just put $40,000 into the stock market at years long lows
you don't think a single person with no kids can retire on a million dollars in savings, $3445 a month in social security, and a house nearly paid off?!?!
It's going to be tight. I don't think we are at the bottom with respect to the stock market. If you spend conservatively, you might look at substitute teaching, working at a hardware store, etc. a few days a week to make another $1k/month so you can avoid dipping into investments for as long as possible.
I'm late 40's, have a company pension coming, and am about where you are. If it wasn't for the pension I'd be concerned.
Staying healthy, avoiding medical costs, and avoiding major home repairs will also be really important.
It is, but it's not. Everybody either drives an enormous loaded pickup, Audi, Mercedes or Lexus. A $75,000 auto loan is going to run $1,400/month.jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
or it's two cars
South Platte said:It is, but it's not. Everybody either drives an enormous loaded pickup, Audi, Mercedes or Lexus. A $75,000 auto loan is going to run $1,400/month.jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
I understand why, but I think buying expensive cars like that, unless you just have a large amount of disposable income is just asinine. I haven't paid over 15k for a car in almost 20 years. Current car is a 2016 Mazda 6 that works great for me. I just have no reason to want anything more. But I do realize that many think very differently.
Most people are still trying to live like it's the 1950's. House, multiple kids, two cars, vacations. That's the bill of goods every one was sold. Unless you make a small fortune you are going to have a difficult time living that lifestyle in 2022.
Think you'd be surprised at the number of people in their 30s that can easily afford a $1MM house, particularly with interest rates where they were the past few years.South Platte said:
I feel like I'm the only one of my friends/acquaintances that isn't living in a $500,000+ house. I can't believe the number of people in their 30's living in homes pushing toward $1m. Maybe family money?
South Platte said:
I feel like I'm the only one of my friends/acquaintances that isn't living in a $500,000+ house. I can't believe the number of people in their 30's living in homes pushing toward $1m. Maybe family money?
You and me both. I'm in my late 30s and only have a $500k house because I bought one for around $200k about 10 years ago. However, I am living below my means, and I think most people my age aren't doing that.
DeSantis 2024
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
A million dollar home is going to cost you over $5,000 a month at 3%. That's with no money down. 20% down and you are still looking at over $4,000 a month. I guess there are people in their 30's that can afford that but I'd bet many are house poor. A mortgage that high would scare the hell out of me. You are one lost job from having to sell in a hurry. $4,000 a month doesn't seem like something the parents can loan you until you get back on your feet.
Jet Black said:
Most people are still trying to live like it's the 1950's. House, multiple kids, two cars, vacations. That's the bill of goods every one was sold. Unless you make a small fortune you are going to have a difficult time living that lifestyle in 2022.
I'm just trying to figure out what the hell this means….
jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
2x $650 car payments isn't insane. That's a $40k car note over 6 years at 2% (ask me how I know
)Want to go in a nice vacation or 2 a year? I just looked at flights to cancun in November from DFW… $750 a piece!!!
2 nice vacations a year for a family of 4 is easily over $10k… so there's another 1k in monthly savings…
Stuff ain't cheap.
Like JetBlack said… it's the American Dream but a $12 whataburger combo and $4.50 gas is killing that dream
This thread is depressing
My first house, in 1997, was $97,000. In 2022, that's a truck.
ChoppinDs40 said:jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
2x $650 car payments isn't insane. That's a $40k car note over 6 years at 2% (ask me how I know
Want to go in a nice vacation or 2 a year? I just looked at flights to cancun in November from DFW… $750 a piece!!!
2 nice vacations a year for a family of 4 is easily over $10k… so there's another 1k in monthly savings…
Stuff ain't cheap.
Like JetBlack said… it's the American Dream but a $12 whataburger combo and $4.50 gas is killing that dream
I guess that was my point above. The American dream ain't cheap.
Not anymore.
My whole point in commenting on this thread is that this idea that getting by on a 250k income is not easy to do AND save money (i.e. not living paycheck to paycheck) is just silly. I mean sure, you can justify it in all sorts of manners. But the truth is there are plenty of ways to get by cheaper, spend less, and save more. You don't have to have 2 - $650 car payments at the same time. That's a choice. You don't have to take 2 nice 5k vacations a year. That's a choice. I suppose, if that's not really living to some, then so be it, but that's their choice. Too many people in this country think they are too good for that (settling for less) and think they "deserve" more. The American Dream is whatever you what it to be....people can choose to stop spending money on so much crap that doesn't really bring them happiness anyway...ChoppinDs40 said:jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
2x $650 car payments isn't insane. That's a $40k car note over 6 years at 2% (ask me how I know
Want to go in a nice vacation or 2 a year? I just looked at flights to cancun in November from DFW… $750 a piece!!!
2 nice vacations a year for a family of 4 is easily over $10k… so there's another 1k in monthly savings…
Stuff ain't cheap.
Like JetBlack said… it's the American Dream but a $12 whataburger combo and $4.50 gas is killing that dream
jtraggie99 said:My whole point in commenting on this thread is that this idea that getting by on a 250k income is not easy to do AND save money (i.e. not living paycheck to paycheck) is just silly. I mean sure, you can justify it in all sorts of manners. But the truth is there are plenty of ways to get by cheaper, spend less, and save more. You don't have to have 2 - $650 car payments at the same time. That's a choice. You don't have to take 2 nice 5k vacations a year. That's a choice. I suppose, if that's not really living to some, then so be it, but that's their choice. Too many people in this country think they are too good for that (settling for less) and think they "deserve" more. The American Dream is whatever you what it to be....people can choose to stop spending money on so much crap that doesn't really bring them happiness anyway...ChoppinDs40 said:jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
2x $650 car payments isn't insane. That's a $40k car note over 6 years at 2% (ask me how I know
Want to go in a nice vacation or 2 a year? I just looked at flights to cancun in November from DFW… $750 a piece!!!
2 nice vacations a year for a family of 4 is easily over $10k… so there's another 1k in monthly savings…
Stuff ain't cheap.
Like JetBlack said… it's the American Dream but a $12 whataburger combo and $4.50 gas is killing that dream
AMEN
Not saying that the American dream is as achievable as it used to be, but I'm also not sure it's fair to compare 1950's lifestyle to today's lifestyle.Jet Black said:
Most people are still trying to live like it's the 1950's. House, multiple kids, two cars, vacations. That's the bill of goods every one was sold. Unless you make a small fortune you are going to have a difficult time living that lifestyle in 2022.
Average homes size in 1950 was just under a 1,000 sqft, today is over 2,000 sqft.
Typical cars didn't have nearly the amenities or accessories that cars today do.
On average, people eat out at a much higher rate than they did.
Consumer electronic prices have gone down significantly, but people used to have only one television, whereas
today they have multiple TVs, a new phone for multiple family members, ipads, game consoles, etc.
Vacations have gotten more lavish/experience based, and air travel for personal use is significantly different.
Although I do think this conversation is more about lifestyle than affordability, my 2 cents, the 80's/90's were a better comparison for a cost effective American dream. And we thank you for that, Mr. Reagan.
agree 100%... and these are the people that are living paycheck to paycheckjtraggie99 said:My whole point in commenting on this thread is that this idea that getting by on a 250k income is not easy to do AND save money (i.e. not living paycheck to paycheck) is just silly. I mean sure, you can justify it in all sorts of manners. But the truth is there are plenty of ways to get by cheaper, spend less, and save more. You don't have to have 2 - $650 car payments at the same time. That's a choice. You don't have to take 2 nice 5k vacations a year. That's a choice. I suppose, if that's not really living to some, then so be it, but that's their choice. Too many people in this country think they are too good for that (settling for less) and think they "deserve" more. The American Dream is whatever you what it to be....people can choose to stop spending money on so much crap that doesn't really bring them happiness anyway...ChoppinDs40 said:jtraggie99 said:1300 in car payments a month? That's insane man.ChoppinDs40 said:ding ding ding... call $250k = $16k month after health insurance and taxesbmks270 said:
In a high cost of living area it's very easy to blow 250k on rent, luxury cars, and eating out, especially with kids.
"Pay check to pay check" isn't well defined. I bet most of these people have decent savings and can afford unexpected expenses pretty easily.
$750k house... call it $4k mortgage.. $400 utilities, $1,300 in car payments, $300 car insurance, $400 gas (now)...
2 kids in day care is at least $2,000, $1,500 in food. That's $10k right there for living/commuting...
TV? entertainment? vacation? 401k savings? HSA savings? wife getting her nails done and hoohah waxed? it goes quick.
2x $650 car payments isn't insane. That's a $40k car note over 6 years at 2% (ask me how I know
Want to go in a nice vacation or 2 a year? I just looked at flights to cancun in November from DFW… $750 a piece!!!
2 nice vacations a year for a family of 4 is easily over $10k… so there's another 1k in monthly savings…
Stuff ain't cheap.
Like JetBlack said… it's the American Dream but a $12 whataburger combo and $4.50 gas is killing that dream
but yeah... it's the consumerism that's ingrained into us by social media, television, etc. Our entire economy is based on consumerism. We drive 2 nice cars... do we need them? NEED? nah, but it's nice to have. Could I be driving a busted ass Toyota Corolla? sure, but who wants to do that?
I've definitely succumbed to some of these desires and inflation is a real thing but it can become a slippery slope and we, as a household, are definitely adjusting due to what's going on. Not taking that extra 4 day weekend trip for my birthday, not putting in a pool, not going out to eat as much. The budget has to be adjusted somewhere, and reducing our saving for retirement/investing isn't the first honeyhole we're going to.
Is that the guy who kept offering Ben Wyatt the accounting job on Parks and Rec?RockOn said:
Now add in the following:Jet Black said:
A million dollar home is going to cost you over $5,000 a month at 3%. That's with no money down. 20% down and you are still looking at over $4,000 a month. I guess there are people in their 30's that can afford that but I'd bet many are house poor. A mortgage that high would scare the hell out of me. You are one lost job from having to sell in a hurry. $4,000 a month doesn't seem like something the parents can loan you until you get back on your feet.
- Property taxes
- Home insurance
- Furnishing what is likely a 4,000 sq ft home at a minimum depending on where you are
- Gas, electric, water
- Home repairs which are highly variable throughout the year
- Home security
- Home supplies
- Landscape/lawncare
- Any other subscription based stuff that is home related
Your TCO for that house will be $6-8K per month.
When my wife and I met 7 years ago, we made about $9000 a month total. We had about $80000 in debt for grad schools and CC. That's all paid off minus enough of her loans that Biden might be dumb enough to pay for it.
Fast forward to today. I'm 40 and wife 36. Wife and I bring home $14000 per month, with 2 times a year being $21000 for three paychecks a month.
$182000 total.
$4000 in 401k and IRA
$2200 mortgage/taxes (pay extra $250 a month)
$1600 daycare
$1000 cars (both will be paid off in a few months)
$1250 bills (phone/utilities/car insurance/HOA)
$500 gas and tolls
$1000 groceries
$1000 miscellaneous home/car repairs/random bills
$500 medical
That's $13.000 right there. Leaves $1000 left for entertainment which is plenty. We can take $1000 off for the cars shortly.
$14000 extra with third paychecks goes into savings/maxing out IRA. All in all we can save about $62000 a year minimum between 401k/IRA/savings, and I know we can trim down. This is our first real year doing this plan. Last years have been debt, save for emergency, save for house, save for wedding, and save for child costs.
If my wife and I can't retire in 20 years, something went wrong.
Fast forward to today. I'm 40 and wife 36. Wife and I bring home $14000 per month, with 2 times a year being $21000 for three paychecks a month.
$182000 total.
$4000 in 401k and IRA
$2200 mortgage/taxes (pay extra $250 a month)
$1600 daycare
$1000 cars (both will be paid off in a few months)
$1250 bills (phone/utilities/car insurance/HOA)
$500 gas and tolls
$1000 groceries
$1000 miscellaneous home/car repairs/random bills
$500 medical
That's $13.000 right there. Leaves $1000 left for entertainment which is plenty. We can take $1000 off for the cars shortly.
$14000 extra with third paychecks goes into savings/maxing out IRA. All in all we can save about $62000 a year minimum between 401k/IRA/savings, and I know we can trim down. This is our first real year doing this plan. Last years have been debt, save for emergency, save for house, save for wedding, and save for child costs.
If my wife and I can't retire in 20 years, something went wrong.
I love the third paycheck bonus month. This month is one for us. But if you're living paycheck to paycheck that mindset isn't even apparent.
It doesnt matter how much you make, it matters how much you spend. Still true today and for all time.
yep
"mo money, mo problems"
income goes up, peoples lifestyle goes up, with a majority of people trying to max out lifestyle
im a doc, still living in the house i was in in residency, my truck is paid off, wife just bought a corolla in cash,
and i wonder all the time how all these people are affording 80+k trucks and 750+k houses on non-doc salaries
"mo money, mo problems"
income goes up, peoples lifestyle goes up, with a majority of people trying to max out lifestyle
im a doc, still living in the house i was in in residency, my truck is paid off, wife just bought a corolla in cash,
and i wonder all the time how all these people are affording 80+k trucks and 750+k houses on non-doc salaries
I agree with you that it's enough if you are single. Love my family, but I have to admit they drive the lifestyle creep more than me. If life wasn't a compromise and I got to call the shots we would live in a smaller house, drive older cars, dine out less and stay at cheaper hotels when we travel. If it was just me I could cut my expenses dramatically and be perfectly happy.
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