Crypto-trading thread

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BusterAg
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11:27p, 3/9/21
AG
Here is my fear:

The U.S. Government comes out with a crypto currency, and treats it as currency. It classifies all other crypto as digital assets.

That means that USCrypto appreciates tax free, and Bitcoin is subject to capital gains tax. USCrypto gets to hang out in IRA's, 401k's, pension plans, etc., and other digital assets do not.

Next, you make all the wallet companies disclose the owners. If you hold any BTC through an intermediary, now the government knows how much you own. You sell it, and, boom, tax event.

You add to that some amount of giving Wall Street banks a favorable initial allocation of USCrypto, and the fix is in. The flight from other crypto would be monumental.

I have serious regret for missing out on this stuff. I have been following blockchain since Bitcoin was $87.

But the political risk has always been too much for me. These things have zero intrinsic value. The only value is in the faith of the coin.

BTC could go to $1Million as an inflation hedge. It could go to zero pretty quick if the government wants it to.
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AgPrognosticator
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In reply to BusterAg • 7:32a, 3/10/21
AG
BusterAg said:
Here is my fear:

The U.S. Government comes out with a crypto currency, and treats it as currency. It classifies all other crypto as digital assets.

That means that USCrypto appreciates tax free, and Bitcoin is subject to capital gains tax. USCrypto gets to hang out in IRA's, 401k's, pension plans, etc., and other digital assets do not.

Next, you make all the wallet companies disclose the owners. If you hold any BTC through an intermediary, now the government knows how much you own. You sell it, and, boom, tax event.

You add to that some amount of giving Wall Street banks a favorable initial allocation of USCrypto, and the fix is in. The flight from other crypto would be monumental.

I have serious regret for missing out on this stuff. I have been following blockchain since Bitcoin was $87.

But the political risk has always been too much for me. These things have zero intrinsic value. The only value is in the faith of the coin.

BTC could go to $1Million as an inflation hedge. It could go to zero pretty quick if the government wants it to.


Well said and great post.
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TxAG#2011
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7:39a, 3/10/21
Why would a US gov crypto coin deviate from the value of the dollar at all?
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Kampfers
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7:45a, 3/10/21
AG
As a counterpoint, is there any reason why crypto should not be subject to the capital gains tax?

I'm certainly fearful of the govt shutting down crypto, but that would hardly be the case in said scenario. That would simply be treating crypto like the stock market (which is exactly how everyone in this thread essentially views it).

No one here is purchasing crypto so that they can go out and use it at the vendor down the street in exchange for goods and services. They're purchasing it because they believe the value will appreciate.

In terms of implications on the value of crypto, it would vary by coin. Bitcoin would probably go up based on those news, because now the cloud of uncertainty just got removed and it can operate without fear in the US. Bitcoin has already pivoted from being a "digital currency" to a "store of value" anyways.

Something like Nano, which is more specifically designed as a digital currency/transfer of value, would probably bottom out (which would suck for me). Making transactions taxable destroys the use case it was built around. Furthermore, there would be no need for it in many eyes if there was a US backed crypto.

I would certainly be interested in what the language of the new laws were, because it would affect alts differently. Would something like VET fall under the capital gains tax? That might effectively kill its use case. And yet given that it has a specific use case that is unrelated to the speculative nature of crypto, might it be classified differently or fall under an exception?

As I've said before, don't put money in crypto you can't afford to lose. In the meantime, have fun. Whatever the US government does or doesn't do is a problem for another day.
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Deluxe
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8:26a, 3/10/21
AG
I don't quite follow the argument that Bitcoin could go to zero. A sweeping set of regulatory actions by the US (and perhaps other western) govts would be very detrimental to the price in the short/medium term, no doubt. But crypto is integrating itself more and more into less developed economies. Defi is happening globally whether our govt and establishment banking system likes it or not. It would be fun to watch Hoskinson sit in front of a govt panel and explain all the good that ETH/ADA, etc will bring to the underdeveloped world... empowering people (who are ACTUALLY oppressed, not just fake oppressed like SJWs in America) to create market systems of buying/selling goods without authoritarian tycoons standing in the middle. The decline in third world poverty, premature death, etc will be staggering.

That process will take a few more years, but it won't be long after that it will become the model for a world transaction system. Then the west will have to decide to get on board or get left in the dust. To me, that's when the American monetary system sort of reaches its tipping point. Plenty of short sighted academic/central banker types will attempt to enforce the fiat system because they've built their entire life work around it. To the extent we remain free to choose which system we want, crypto will win and it will be an easy win. But some totalitarian tendencies in America right now make me skeptical of that freedom when the time comes.
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Polska
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10:38a, 3/10/21
AG
It's becoming too ingrained in big companies and institutional investors to go the opposite direction at this point in my opinion. If Amazon and Apple would jump on board it would be game over. Regardless, this isn't focal to the US; crypto is worldwide so who's to stop you from going to a different crypto friendly country to cash out or hold it there?
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CinchAG97
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In reply to BusterAg • 11:08a, 3/10/21
A greenback dollar has no intrinsic value either and is based on faith in the USGovt which is running the printing presses nonstop for years to the tune of trillions of dollars. The only reason that little green piece of paper holds value is because someone else wants it.
Crypto holds value because someone else wants it.

Too simplistic, I'm sure.
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Loaded
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In reply to Polska • 11:33a, 3/10/21
AG
Rush Limbaugh said:
It's becoming too ingrained in big companies and institutional investors to go the opposite direction at this point in my opinion. If Amazon and Apple would jump on board it would be game over. Regardless, this isn't focal to the US; crypto is worldwide so who's to stop you from going to a different crypto friendly country to cash out or hold it there?
This is my thought too. Wall Street, hedge funds, big banks, payment processors, investment managers, endowments, publicly traded companies, etc have all moved into cryptos. They wield enough lobbying power to block the US government from shutting down the crypto space. If the government was going to put an end to it, the window closed 2 or 3 years ago when cryptos were still mostly a retail trader & enthusiast driven market.
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HarryJ33tamu
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12:51p, 3/10/21
Anyone know where I can buy some?
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Loaded
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In reply to HarryJ33tamu • 12:59p, 3/10/21
AG
HarryJ33tamu said:
Anyone know where I can buy some?
Assuming you're asking about DGB, take your pick...

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/digibyte/markets/
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HtownAg92
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In reply to Decay • 1:03p, 3/10/21
AG
Decay said:
Transfer times are approx 15 min for BTC to settle but should show up fairly quickly. You can for sure try to time dips. I do it from my btc or altcoins to CELO or a stable coin, or just try to find inverse moves.
My CELO parking spot went up 13%+ today. Thanks again for the reco.

Of course, I may never get back into BTC again. Holding off that dip strong.
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HarryJ33tamu
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In reply to Loaded • 1:22p, 3/10/21
Thanks!
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Decay
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In reply to HtownAg92 • 1:53p, 3/10/21
AG
HtownAg92 said:
Decay said:
Transfer times are approx 15 min for BTC to settle but should show up fairly quickly. You can for sure try to time dips. I do it from my btc or altcoins to CELO or a stable coin, or just try to find inverse moves.
My CELO parking spot went up 13%+ today. Thanks again for the reco.

Of course, I may never get back into BTC again. Holding off that dip strong.
Very cool. Yeah BTC is hard, but there will be dips. Just keep your eyes open because CELO loves to dive fast. I stress out a lot bouncing because fees eat into your profits but it's the price you pay for success right?
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MRB10
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5:39p, 3/10/21
AG
You *******s have badgered me into buying DGB, ADA, and VET today.

I took a position in ONE and added to LUNA, LINK, DOT, and MATIC as well.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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Decay
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7:52p, 3/10/21
AG
You won't regret it. Unless you do, I guess.
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wareagle044
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In reply to MRB10 • 8:43p, 3/10/21
NTXAg10 said:
You *******s have badgered me into buying DGB, ADA, and VET today.

I took a position in ONE and added to LUNA, LINK, DOT, and MATIC as well.


Good day to buy most of those. I've been on ONE since .029 and VET since .039 - very happy with whoever on here talked me into looking at those

Same with DGB, I wish I had more in that one than I do but I have more elsewhere that I'd like to keep.

Have fun. See you on Mars or Saturn or wherever people say we are going
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hutch012
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In reply to wareagle044 • 9:36p, 3/10/21
AG
what exchange are y'all buying DGB, ADA, and VET? Kucoin? I only have a coinbase account currently and i'm sick of sitting on the sidelines watching these other coins take off. Any suggestions?
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HalifaxAg
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In reply to hutch012 • 9:45p, 3/10/21
AG
hutch012 said:
what exchange are y'all buying DGB, ADA, and VET? Kucoin? I only have a coinbase account currently and i'm sick of sitting on the sidelines watching these other coins take off. Any suggestions?
Voyager
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MRB10
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9:58p, 3/10/21
AG
Binance
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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MRB10
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In reply to wareagle044 • 9:59p, 3/10/21
AG
I should clarify I have limit orders on LUNA($10) and DOT($36). Patterns suggest we should see a dip in the next few days.

I'm going to experiment staking ada and Luna as well. Wish me luck.
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Comeby!
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In reply to HalifaxAg • 10:04p, 3/10/21
AG
ADA on Kraken
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Comeby!
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In reply to Deluxe • 10:10p, 3/10/21
AG
Disclaimer: I own BTC but have some underlying questions.

So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train? Where's the economic incentive to mine/process the transactions when there are no bitcoins to be mined? What happens when the ESG folks figure out proof of work type coins use an enormous amount of energy?
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Ragoo
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In reply to Comeby! • 10:50p, 3/10/21
AG
Comeby! said:
Disclaimer: I own BTC but have some underlying questions.

So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train? Where's the economic incentive to mine/process the transactions when there are no bitcoins to be mined? What happens when the ESG folks figure out proof of work type coins use an enormous amount of energy?
mining as I understand is really contract verification. Owning the computing power to verify transactions comes with a small commission paid in Bitcoin.
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jeremy
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7:25a, 3/11/21
AG
The 3 hour, 2 hour and 1 hour look good for bitcoin and eth. Should go for a pretty nice ride after yesterday/last night's dip (which I had to ride out because I'm stupid).

56,800 is roughly the current price. Should ride high for at least a few hours (incurring dips to buy in on the way).

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Malachi Constant
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8:05a, 3/11/21
AG
8:05AM and it just broke $57k
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Deluxe
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In reply to Comeby! • 8:09a, 3/11/21
AG
Comeby! said:
So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train?
There's alot of different reasons folks invest in BTC. Some are big banks/companies/governments stocking up reserves for a potentially crypto future. Some are individual investors/hedge funds allocating a small percentage of their portfolios to crypto for diversification. Some believe the long term inflation hedge story. Some are long term HODLers who believe one day owning a BTC will be more appealing than owning a dollar. Some are day traders looking to make a quick buck. Some are just looking for some short/medium term value appreciation and will eventually exchange back into fiat (which I guess is your niche). There's plenty of other reasons too.

Of course there will be profit-takers getting off the train as the value appreciates. I'm not sure I'm following your point on what happens then. Supply temporarily exceeds demand and the price goes down a little?
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Decay
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In reply to Deluxe • 8:45a, 3/11/21
AG
Deluxe said:
Comeby! said:
So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train?
There's alot of different reasons folks invest in BTC. Some are big banks/companies/governments stocking up reserves for a potentially crypto future. Some are individual investors/hedge funds allocating a small percentage of their portfolios to crypto for diversification. Some believe the long term inflation hedge story. Some are long term HODLers who believe one day owning a BTC will be more appealing than owning a dollar. Some are day traders looking to make a quick buck. Some are just looking for some short/medium term value appreciation and will eventually exchange back into fiat (which I guess is your niche). There's plenty of other reasons too.

Of course there will be profit-takers getting off the train as the value appreciates. I'm not sure I'm following your point on what happens then. Supply temporarily exceeds demand and the price goes down a little?
Yeah I think this is a question for 5-years-ago BTC. Nowadays it's pretty much shown that it can ebb and flow with demand, for sure... but it also has proven it stands up to the test of time.
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administrative errors
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In reply to Deluxe • 8:54a, 3/11/21
Deluxe said:
Comeby! said:
So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train?
There's alot of different reasons folks invest in BTC. Some are big banks/companies/governments stocking up reserves for a potentially crypto future. Some are individual investors/hedge funds allocating a small percentage of their portfolios to crypto for diversification. Some believe the long term inflation hedge story. Some are long term HODLers who believe one day owning a BTC Satoshi will be more appealing than owning ahundreds of dollars. Some are day traders looking to make a quick buck. Some are just looking for some short/medium term value appreciation and will eventually exchange back into fiat (which I guess is your niche). There's plenty of other reasons too.

Of course there will be profit-takers getting off the train as the value appreciates. I'm not sure I'm following your point on what happens then. Supply temporarily exceeds demand and the price goes down a little?
fify
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8:57a, 3/11/21


Sharing here too because too many folks trying to "time" trades for miniature gains/losses without delving into the nitty gritty.
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Decay
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In reply to administrative errors • 9:00a, 3/11/21
AG
I did enjoy the video but to be fair... this is the trading thread!
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Comeby!
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:20a, 3/11/21
AG
Deluxe said:
Comeby! said:
So what happens to BTC when all the folks buying for value appreciation get off the train?
There's alot of different reasons folks invest in BTC. Some are big banks/companies/governments stocking up reserves for a potentially crypto future. Some are individual investors/hedge funds allocating a small percentage of their portfolios to crypto for diversification. Some believe the long term inflation hedge story. Some are long term HODLers who believe one day owning a BTC will be more appealing than owning a dollar. Some are day traders looking to make a quick buck. Some are just looking for some short/medium term value appreciation and will eventually exchange back into fiat (which I guess is your niche). There's plenty of other reasons too.

Of course there will be profit-takers getting off the train as the value appreciates. I'm not sure I'm following your point on what happens then. Supply temporarily exceeds demand and the price goes down a little?


These are all very valid and possible reasons folks own bitcoin. The reason answer lies in the distribution of percentages of each, which is anyone's guess. My original assumption is that more than 50% of holders are primarily 'appreciation'/'day trader' types (think GameStop) and the exit for those folks would disrupt the supply/demand balance. Currently I think that distribution is shifting over to government/bank/etc which could stabilize the value over time. Of course inflation will juice the valuation even further.

As far as transaction fees, there's not enough in it for miners to stick it out past that. Miners have (and will) jump over to alt coins that are earlier stage, although not as likely to survive.
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Deluxe
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In reply to Comeby! • 9:26a, 3/11/21
AG
Agreed. I think the number of investors who are just in it to get in/get out with profit is declining over time as a percentage of all investors.
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MRB10
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12:45p, 3/11/21
AG
Kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on THETA yesterday
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wareagle044
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In reply to MRB10 • 4:09p, 3/11/21
NTXAg10 said:
Kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on THETA yesterday


But you got DGB and VET
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MRB10
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In reply to wareagle044 • 4:21p, 3/11/21
AG
I also have a few thousand MATIC. Easily my winner for today.
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