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Buying physical gold/silver

919,377 Views | 4537 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by AgPrognosticator
Heineken-Ashi
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lobopride said:

This is why I invest in gold and silver.



Yes that's been running around x for a week or so. Yet another person who has never studied history who thinks you can extrapolate a trend forever.

The debt won't get anywhere close to that as the government would default well before then. With the debt at $39T we already have historic unaffordability for the majority of the country rivaling the late 1920's.

To add that much debt, there has to be a willing buyer of the debt. And for there to be a willing buyer of that debt, interest rates would be continually rising and likely making the 70's look like child's play. We already can't service our DEFICIT, which means we're YEARS away from servicing our debt, and have to issue continually increasing levels of new treasuries AS WELL AS refinance existing treasuries just to fund the ability to pay the interest on the existing debt (as well as all the other spending).

We're already in the death spiral where new debt leads to higher rates which leads to higher interest payments which leads to issuing more new debt.

Long story short, even before we got halfway there we would default. And you can't compare us to developing nations with currencies nobody cares about. At the end of the day, they transact in dollars which we gladly supply them so they can continue to hyperinflate. And even some of them have defaulted over the years.

That scenario even starting to play out would end in a world changing currency crisis and likely world war.

But I don't disagree that they will try. Their only options are forced austerity (which they have proven they aren't interested in outside of moving lips while doing the opposite with their actions), or the above scenario. But the above scenario won't work for reasons mentioned above. Not to mention that any new official QE (buying of assets by the FED), works through the system by the FED crediting banks reserve accounts with this new money and taking the assets onto their balance sheet. For the money to enter the system, the banks have to have demand for loans from the public. Such demand barely exists now and won't exist at all with higher rates. So those assets would sit on the FED balance sheet while no new money actually circulates through the system. The end result would be high yield deflation.
lobopride
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Nobody knows how long they can keep the charade going, but if history is our guide then it will be longer than we can imagine.
Heineken-Ashi
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lobopride said:

Nobody knows how long they can keep the charade going, but if history is our guide then it will be longer than we can imagine.

Maybe so. But there's no reversing this doom loop. All new debt will be serviced with newer debt. And as we saw in the 50's - 70's, a time when debt was between 500B and 1T and debt/GDP was actually strongly falling (in other words, a much healthier time), there eventually comes a point where the FED can't respond by simply continuing to inflate, but must aggressively fight the looming hyperinflation monster.

maddiedou
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AG
What are you saying

Interest rates are going to 10

Just explain your educated guess in fifth grade language
maddiedou
Red Pear Realty
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In 5th grade language, "we are cooked, bro".
Sponsor Message: We Split Commissions. Full Service Agents in Austin, Bryan-College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio. Red Pear Realty
Red Pear Realty
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AG
I've got an incoming 5th grader. This is the exact translation.
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maddiedou
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maddiedou
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AG
Does cooked mean

interest rates or going up

The market is doomed and I cant lose any money there because I made some stupid mistakes and i am not in the market

Groceries going up

Or everybody is going to vote communism
maddiedou
Heineken-Ashi
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maddiedou said:

Does cooked mean

interest rates or going up

The market is doomed and I cant lose any money there because I made some stupid mistakes and i am not in the market

Groceries going up

Or everybody is going to vote communism

jagvocate
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AG
Cooked means We The People can't collectively afford another round of late 70s / early 80s inflation and corresponding interest rate hikes to kill it ... so the Fed will have good intentions and bad results -- financial repression aka direct or indirect caps on interest rates, keeping them below the "real rate" of money.

Precious metals advance during periods of financial repression, but society loses much more than goldbugs gain.

maddiedou
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AG
I think I got it

If anybody ever wants to know how to do sheetrock
Plumbing
Electrical
Some ac
Roofing
Painting
Carpentry
Tile

Just ask me. Ha.
maddiedou
aggiedata
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AG
Gardening
maddiedou
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AG
Forgot that one
maddiedou
TTUArmy
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As I've heard, Tether is going to be a primary buyer of treasuries. For every note they hold, they will have an equal amount of physical gold. This seems like a stop gap. Without the political will to put a lid on spending, Tether will have to hold an insane amount of gold to match their treasury holdings. At some point, I'd think they would have to contend with a scarcity problem...unless...someone decides to revalue gold. Maybe that's why they're accumulating so much gold? I have no idea...

Quick search..
Quote:

Tether has a total direct and indirect exposure to U.S. Treasuries amounting to about $141 billion as of early 2026. This makes Tether one of the largest holders of U.S. government debt globally.

Quote:

Tether owns approximately 148 tonnes of physical gold, valued at around $23 billion as of late January 2026.

Buck Turgidson
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Gold is annoying lately - low enough that my previous gains (on paper) have eroded but not low enough to be a great bargain. Gold needs to drop to $3,500 for a couple days the shoot back up to a new high!
TTUArmy
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Buck Turgidson said:

Gold is annoying lately - low enough that my previous gains (on paper) have eroded but not low enough to be a great bargain. Gold needs to drop to $3,500 for a couple days the shoot back up to a new high!

At least you have some. That's a positive.

I picked up a nice 1899 $10 gold piece this week.
Always feels good to hold real money.
TTUArmy
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Probabilities of Fed rate change
Ease - 0.0 %
No Change - 66.3 %
Hike - 33.7 %

I'm in the "No Change" category. That "ease" percentage is probably going way up around mid-terms. Anyone that understands the mechanics of the Fed and the underlying fundamentals of the economy knows the "hike" position is absolute BS...ain't going to happen. Bring on the QE printing, another credit cycle, and higher prices for precious metals.
Outdoorag011
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We thinking metals drop this week as they did in June after they held rates? I'll probably snag some gold if we get in the 3's
Heineken-Ashi
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TTUArmy said:

Probabilities of Fed rate change
Ease - 0.0 %
No Change - 66.3 %
Hike - 33.7 %

I'm in the "No Change" category. That "ease" percentage is probably going way up around mid-terms. Anyone that understands the mechanics of the Fed and the underlying fundamentals of the economy knows the "hike" position is absolute BS...ain't going to happen. Bring on the QE printing, another credit cycle, and higher prices for precious metals.

That's simply not true. Since 2008 when we shifted from a more traditional economy to a financially engineered one (the first big print), FED decisions have never gone against the bond market and market treasury yields. The last attempt to ignore the bond market was in late 2021 / early 2022 when the FED called inflation transitory and was immediately forced by the bond market to start aggressively hiking. The bond market had already been pricing that in for months. Once it became too much to ignore, the FED did as they always do and followed.

The difference now is that interest on the debt is already at crushing levels. I've explained this before. We're in the doom phase where any new debt will lead to higher interest payments which lead to more new debt. Conversely, any attempt to ease rates against the bond market's signals will be met with the bond market revolting and sending rates even higher to price in future inflation.

Now, the FED knows it can't raise rates without crushing the market and economy. We literally can't afford it. But at the same time, they know they can't lower without sending us more directly into 70's and 80's style hyperinflation that will require even more drastic future action. The assumption by almost everyone is that the FED won't purposely break things. That seems like a safe assumption until you realize that the FED never has, nor currently does have any control.

Everything that's happening is the eventual byproduct of devaluing the currency and exploding the debt. If you've studied history of economies and civilizations prior to 2008, you know how this ends. You just keep buying your head and hoping we can continue to financially engineer a long-term can kick and make future generations pay for it.

The FED can postpone decisions to a point. They've certainly done that since the bond market laughed at them lowering last year. But they can only do it for so long. At the end of the day, someone has to be willing to pay all new debt that we have no choice but to issue. That amount will continue to grow no matter what we do. At the same time, the secondary market has to also exist to allow us to refinance existing debt that we can't afford, and will never again be able to afford, to pay back. Neither of those markets want our debt right now without taking on a significant risk premium that will continue to rise.

Long story short, as always, follow the bond market and you will know what the FED will do.
TTUArmy
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Heineken-Ashi said:

TTUArmy said:

Probabilities of Fed rate change
Ease - 0.0 %
No Change - 66.3 %
Hike - 33.7 %

I'm in the "No Change" category. That "ease" percentage is probably going way up around mid-terms. Anyone that understands the mechanics of the Fed and the underlying fundamentals of the economy knows the "hike" position is absolute BS...ain't going to happen. Bring on the QE printing, another credit cycle, and higher prices for precious metals.

That's simply not true. Since 2008 when we shifted from a more traditional economy to a financially engineered one (the first big print), FED decisions have never gone against the bond market and market treasury yields. The last attempt to ignore the bond market was in late 2021 / early 2022 when the FED called inflation transitory and was immediately forced by the bond market to start aggressively hiking. The bond market had already been pricing that in for months. Once it became too much to ignore, the FED did as they always do and followed.

The difference now is that interest on the debt is already at crushing levels. I've explained this before. We're in the doom phase where any new debt will lead to higher interest payments which lead to more new debt. Conversely, any attempt to ease rates against the bond market's signals will be met with the bond market revolting and sending rates even higher to price in future inflation.

Now, the FED knows it can't raise rates without crushing the market and economy. We literally can't afford it. But at the same time, they know they can't lower without sending us more directly into 70's and 80's style hyperinflation that will require even more drastic future action. The assumption by almost everyone is that the FED won't purposely break things. That seems like a safe assumption until you realize that the FED never has, nor currently does have any control.

Everything that's happening is the eventual byproduct of devaluing the currency and exploding the debt. If you've studied history of economies and civilizations prior to 2008, you know how this ends. You just keep buying your head and hoping we can continue to financially engineer a long-term can kick and make future generations pay for it.

The FED can postpone decisions to a point. They've certainly done that since the bond market laughed at them lowering last year. But they can only do it for so long. At the end of the day, someone has to be willing to pay all new debt that we have no choice but to issue. That amount will continue to grow no matter what we do. At the same time, the secondary market has to also exist to allow us to refinance existing debt that we can't afford, and will never again be able to afford, to pay back. Neither of those markets want our debt right now without taking on a significant risk premium that will continue to rise.

Long story short, as always, follow the bond market and you will know what the FED will do.

All hail the bond vigilantes! Thanks for your input H-A. Always valuable, man.
I bleed maroon
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AG
Heineken-Ashi said:

TTUArmy said:

Probabilities of Fed rate change
Ease - 0.0 %
No Change - 66.3 %
Hike - 33.7 %

I'm in the "No Change" category. That "ease" percentage is probably going way up around mid-terms. Anyone that understands the mechanics of the Fed and the underlying fundamentals of the economy knows the "hike" position is absolute BS...ain't going to happen. Bring on the QE printing, another credit cycle, and higher prices for precious metals.

That's simply not true. Since 2008 when we shifted from a more traditional economy to a financially engineered one (the first big print), FED decisions have never gone against the bond market and market treasury yields. The last attempt to ignore the bond market was in late 2021 / early 2022 when the FED called inflation transitory and was immediately forced by the bond market to start aggressively hiking. The bond market had already been pricing that in for months. Once it became too much to ignore, the FED did as they always do and followed.

The difference now is that interest on the debt is already at crushing levels. I've explained this before. We're in the doom phase where any new debt will lead to higher interest payments which lead to more new debt. Conversely, any attempt to ease rates against the bond market's signals will be met with the bond market revolting and sending rates even higher to price in future inflation.

Now, the FED knows it can't raise rates without crushing the market and economy. We literally can't afford it. But at the same time, they know they can't lower without sending us more directly into 70's and 80's style hyperinflation that will require even more drastic future action. The assumption by almost everyone is that the FED won't purposely break things. That seems like a safe assumption until you realize that the FED never has, nor currently does have any control.

Everything that's happening is the eventual byproduct of devaluing the currency and exploding the debt. If you've studied history of economies and civilizations prior to 2008, you know how this ends. You just keep buying your head and hoping we can continue to financially engineer a long-term can kick and make future generations pay for it.

The FED can postpone decisions to a point. They've certainly done that since the bond market laughed at them lowering last year. But they can only do it for so long. At the end of the day, someone has to be willing to pay all new debt that we have no choice but to issue. That amount will continue to grow no matter what we do. At the same time, the secondary market has to also exist to allow us to refinance existing debt that we can't afford, and will never again be able to afford, to pay back. Neither of those markets want our debt right now without taking on a significant risk premium that will continue to rise.

Long story short, as always, follow the bond market and you will know what the FED will do.

Hey H-A - - since you posted this on the silver & gold thread, are you saying that buying physical silver and gold is the solution to this problem on the horizon? Just wanting to make sure what solves the "doom loop" in your mind.

Granted, I don't think there's a predictable doom loop at all, and despite agreeing with some of your points (principally, our politicians unwillingness to decelerate spending), I think there are alternate ways to back up your beliefs with better financial investment alternatives (betting on higher interest rates or increased default risk, for example).

Let us know your thoughts.
Heineken-Ashi
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I'm bullish metals. Just waiting on proof of a bottom. Even a lower high in the near to mid-term future is a long way up.
TXAggie4Christ
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AG
Wisdom request: do any of you silver stackers purchase the larger sized 100oz silver bars too?

Or if wanting to potentially sell/trade some items down the road, is it best to stick with the lower weights/smaller sizes: 1oz, 5oz, 10oz?

Appreciate the inputs here. You all have helped me start diversifying a bit since 2023
Red Pear Realty
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I bought a couple of 100oz bars before I sold my silver. If or when I jump back into silver, I will focus on 1oz ASE's or CSM's. 100oz are a tough sell.
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I bleed maroon
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AG
Yeah - what Red Pear said.

My experience is that large bars are a decent bit cheaper per ounce upon purchase (and sale), but while ASEs and other coins cost more per ounce, they're much more marketable and easily sold, and keep at least most of that price premium when sold. My perception is you pick up some numismatics and have an authenticity trust factor from many many more potential buyers, while bars are usually only sought out by other hard-core "stackers".
Mas89
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AG
I agree that one ounce silver eagles will always be easier to sell/ trade. But today I see a 12 percent premium over spot price on sd bullion while they have 100 ounce bars at spot price.
They also have 90 percent junk half dollars at 1.50 Under spot, which would be my pick if buying today.
Large bars maybe if someone was planning on a long term hold. All major coin/ bullion buyers like US coin and jewelry in Houston will tell you on a phone call what their current purchase price is today for eagles/ bars/ 90 percent. Call them to find out, but they buy them all every day- with different prices per ounce for each.
lobopride
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Mas89 said:

I agree that one ounce silver eagles will always be easier to sell/ trade. But today I see a 12 percent premium over spot price on sd bullion while they have 100 ounce bars at spot price.
They also have 90 percent junk half dollars at 1.50 Under spot, which would be my pick if buying today.
Large bars maybe if someone was planning on a long term hold. All major coin/ bullion buyers like US coin and jewelry in Houston will tell you on a phone call what their current purchase price is today for eagles/ bars/ 90 percent. Call them to find out, but they buy them all every day- with different prices per ounce for each.



Junk silver will be selling well over spot price in five years.
AggieT
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AG
Why?
I bleed maroon
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AG
AggieT said:

Why?

Yeah.



I think the hierarchy is likely always going to be something like junk at the bottom, bars in the middle, and ASEs (or similar) at the top of the valuation scale, with spot lining up somewhere inside or outside those values.

For quite a while, junk was below spot, bars were right around spot, and coins were above spot, but presently, they're all below spot (if you're selling), due to a glut of supply (which doesn't bode well for local appreciation).

In the future, if supply evaporates, I suppose they could all be above spot, but junk will still likely be at the bottom of the food chain, for various reasons.
maddiedou
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AG
I believe his point if they keep smelting junk silver eventually the junk supply evaporates

I could be wrong but Elon space x use alot of silver
maddiedou
lobopride
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For a while junk silver had a much higher premium than most other types of silver. Much of the junk silver available got melted down for 1000oz bars in the past two price surges. Simple supply and demand shows that supply is only going down. Premium will definitely go up.
I bleed maroon
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AG
lobopride said:

For a while junk silver had a much higher premium than most other types of silver. Much of the junk silver available got melted down for 1000oz bars in the past two price surges. Simple supply and demand shows that supply is only going down. Premium will definitely go up.

Still not getting your argument? Explain these to me, then:

- Higher cost to melt/refine than ANY other type of silver
- Heavier cost to transport (given the added weight of the non-silver portion)
- Necessity to sort between varying %s of silver content coins by sellers and dealers to determine relative value (and possibly by melters, unless the smelting process effectively separates it in bulk)
- Normal wear and tear on coins diminishing usable metal in each denomination (unless weighing in bulk between like silver content coins, which of course have to be sorted, at extra cost)

I have not seen junk trade at a premium TO OTHER TYPES OF SILVER, in my experience (outside of numismatic value).

Premium may indeed increase beyond the spot price again, if supply becomes short overall (which is by no means definite, as you say, due to mining activity among other things), but please tell me why it won't be at the bottom of the food chain relative to other silver types?
I bleed maroon
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AG
maddiedou said:

Quote:

I believe his point if they keep smelting junk silver eventually the junk supply evaporates



Yes, but by definition, junk silver to be melted down is specifically sold for the silver content, and there are plenty of other alternative silver types that can fulfill this "supply need".

Quote:

Quote:

I could be wrong but Elon space x use alot of silver



Sure, but they don't care where it come from. In fact, junk silver would likely be the last place they would go for supply.


I'm not really trying to be argumentative or difficult here, but when I see potential disinformation presented as factual, other posters deserve a counterpoint to consider, or for the poster to rebut (which I'm very open to - I'm not that smart - I just have internal alarm bells go off when the words "definitely", "always", or "for sure" get thrown around loosely). Just looking out for the casual reader...
I bleed maroon
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AG
One more thought. It is quite possible that supply of junk silver indeed goes away (in many years), and all that will be left is collectable coins for numismatic purposes. That is a good thing, overall, and doesn't have a lot of downside for anyone.
aggiedata
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AG
Melting down US silver coins is illegal, correct?
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