HeightsAg said:

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Depending on who you are talking to. Maybe the average Joe will be impressed but any company that regularly hires top MBAs know that these certification programs are BS. And that goes for non daytime/full time programs as well.

That doesn't mean there's no value in them especially if you are able to augment your skillset, but they likely won't appreciably increase your ability to switch careers or command a huge jump in salary so be intentional about why you are getting one.

Just my opinion as someone who attended a top MBA and now works in Strategy Consulting (think McKinsey) and is the campus lead for my business school.

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Im not sure which post of mine you are quoting, but I basically said if programs are handing out MBAs like candy they aren't really worth anything. And I never said to change careers. I was talking about having to change companies to get the max salary increase. Does anybody refute this?

Replying to your post saying that the Harvard name alone should be an attention grabber thus insinuating that its leadership program may be a good investment. And my view is that is probably not going yield much in terms of ROI.

HeightsAg said:

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Replying to your post saying that the Harvard name alone should be an attention grabber thus insinuating that its leadership program may be a good investment. And my view is that is probably not going yield much in terms of ROI.

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I see how that can be misconstrued. All I said was that the name will get attention. I said nothing about a return. I was only speaking to the Harvard name.

The value of an MBA totally depends on what you want to get out of it. You should think about your career goals and work backwards from there.

The only reason to consider an online program (no matter how highly rated) or some directional school is if you just need to check the box as having an MBA to move up the ladder in your current career track and you're already exceedingly well qualified (or well connected) in every other way.

As for part time vs. full time, it's much easier to get into a top program if you do part time and you don't have to sacrifice your income for two years, but you're sacrificing all of your free time and you won't have anywhere near the same networking or career advancement resoursces as you would at a full time program. Again, if you're looking to advance within the same company or change jobs along your current career path then you probably won't miss those full time resources.

If you're trying to break into a really competitive field like consulting or investment banking or a management track program at a Fortune 500 company then you need to go full time at the best program you can get into. Generally, if you can get into a top 15ish full time program you should go. The resources and networks are unparalleled and the ultimate benefits blow away the costs.

As for that Harvard leadership program, it sounds like an abbreviated executive MBA. It may be worthwhile if you're already an executive or entrepreneur, but I don't think it would be very beneficial in advancing your career. The whole HBS alum status sounds like a crock of **** to justify the high price tag. You may have access to an alumni database and other resources but no HBS grad is going to look at someone who did a 6 month independent study course as one of their own, and prospective employers probably wouldn't value it too highly either. You'd probably be better off doing a top 25 part time or exec MBA program.

I asked because my wife is in that program now. Paid for by her company up front with no cost to us.

She's already in executive management and this is the path that was suggested to her by several of the officers.

I had not heard of it and was curious about the reputation. We just dropped her off at the airport for her first couple of weeks on campus.

If the company is paying for it then that sounds like an awesome gig.

So how common is it for people at top full-time schools to have spouses and kids? Seems almost impossible especially with a spouse that stays home with the kids. I get the whole opportunity cost concept of attending a top full-time schools but it doesn't seem realistic.

foleyt said:

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So how common is it for people at top full-time schools to have spouses and kids? Seems almost impossible especially with a spouse that stays home with the kids. I get the whole opportunity cost concept of attending a top full-time schools but it doesn't seem realistic.

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Exactly the situation we found ourselves in. Four kids, I stay at home and work part time.

foleyt said:

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So how common is it for people at top full-time schools to have spouses and kids? Seems almost impossible especially with a spouse that stays home with the kids. I get the whole opportunity cost concept of attending a top full-time schools but it doesn't seem realistic.

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Actually very common. I'm in my first year at a top 15 program right now and a ton of my classmates have kids and probably half of the class is married. My wife is pregnant and due in August so we'll be in the same boat next year. Top programs have great resources for students with families and provide grants for child care.

My experience was different. My guess is probably a quarter of the class was married but very few had kids. The average age at matriculation at top programs average between 27 to 28 so that doesn't allow too much time after college to date, marry and have kids. Of course, if you have a stay at home spouse and kids and your company isn't sponsoring a full time program, then it'd be super difficult to swing it.

Im thinking of going MBA full time in the next few years with a family myself.
What are you averaging for hours studying/projects/seminars/etc outside the normal 8 - 5 classtime time frame?
What about insurance? Do schools offer any decent plans or are you saving before you leave work to specifially pay for an ACA plan?
My wife plans on working, but both kids will be elementary age by then. What sort of issues should i be thinking about besides the normal strain on family time (even a job does that)?

Ag2012 said:

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foleyt said:

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So how common is it for people at top full-time schools to have spouses and kids? Seems almost impossible especially with a spouse that stays home with the kids. I get the whole opportunity cost concept of attending a top full-time schools but it doesn't seem realistic.

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Actually very common. I'm in my first year at a top 15 program right now and a ton of my classmates have kids and probably half of the class is married. My wife is pregnant and due in August so we'll be in the same boat next year. Top programs have great resources for students with families and provide grants for child care.

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2012: which program are you in?

Madaman said:

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Im thinking of going MBA full time in the next few years with a family myself.
What are you averaging for hours studying/projects/seminars/etc outside the normal 8 - 5 classtime time frame?
What about insurance? Do schools offer any decent plans or are you saving before you leave work to specifially pay for an ACA plan?
My wife plans on working, but both kids will be elementary age by then. What sort of issues should i be thinking about besides the normal strain on family time (even a job does that)?

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I don't study as much as I did for undergrad engineering, but in a typical week I'll have 2 group projects that I spend 10ish hours working on alone and another 10ish hours meeting with my group. A lot of programs have no classes on Friday so that you can schedule interviews. It's really not that bad. My wife and I are excited about the timing of our baby because I'll be around so much more during the school year than when I go back to work.

We've got pretty good insurance through the school. Have to pay for it but it's a good rate. The school actually makes you prove you have better insurance than their plan if you want to opt out of it.

My wife works at the university (a lot of spouses do) and the biggest challenge is the commitments I have after typical work hours. During the job recruiting cycle I had corporate briefings and networking events on campus and then companies flying you to the office for a couple days to interview. Group projects usually involve meetings on nights and weekends and some seminars and one-off professional development courses run into nights and weekends also. Once you lock up a job your schedule gets a lot easier though and I have plenty of free time during the day between classes. The parents in my program who I've talked with have really enjoyed their MBA experience so far.

Cornell Johnson

Thanks 2012

So....I myself am a 25 year old in Finance for an O&G company in Houston. My company offers to pay the full cost if I choose to get an MBA. It is definitely my top goal to receive one at this point in life and I'm trying to see what would best suit me when it comes to part-time vs. full-time.

Right now, I'm going on 3 years of full-time work experience with great reviews from all my superiors. However, I'm now thinking of doing consulting in the near future. My roommate is a consultant for Navigant in Houston and from what he tells me it seems like a kush job. He just finished the GMAT and is pursuing a full-time MBA sometime soon.

For me, I think a part-time MBA would work great in that McCombs offers it here as well as Rice and a few others. I recognize the opportunity cost of networking from a full-time degree, but the fact that my company will pay 100% of it and I can keep earning salary is hard to beat in my opinion.

My concern is I've heard from others that are doing their MBA's through my company that you would have to stay another 3 years afterwards.

Have any of y'all come across this before?

I would think if I received an offer from another company, that I could use whatever penalty I could incur from leaving before 3 years as leverage and have the new company take most of the burden of that.

Allen Gamble said:

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So....I myself am a 25 year old in Finance for an O&G company in Houston. My company offers to pay the full cost if I choose to get an MBA. It is definitely my top goal to receive one at this point in life and I'm trying to see what would best suit me when it comes to part-time vs. full-time.

Right now, I'm going on 3 years of full-time work experience with great reviews from all my superiors. However, I'm now thinking of doing consulting in the near future. My roommate is a consultant for Navigant in Houston and from what he tells me it seems like a kush job. He just finished the GMAT and is pursuing a full-time MBA sometime soon.

For me, I think a part-time MBA would work great in that McCombs offers it here as well as Rice and a few others. I recognize the opportunity cost of networking from a full-time degree, but the fact that my company will pay 100% of it and I can keep earning salary is hard to beat in my opinion.

My concern is I've heard from others that are doing their MBA's through my company that you would have to stay another 3 years afterwards.

Have any of y'all come across this before?

I would think if I received an offer from another company, that I could use whatever penalty I could incur from leaving before 3 years as leverage and have the new company take most of the burden of that.

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I don't think any company can force you to stay. The new company would likely have to pick up the cost.

It's probably negotiable...

The vast majority of companies that regularly conducts on campus recruiting will extend the same offer and compensation package to everyone regardless of their circumstance. For example, it doesn't matter if you have 3 years of experience in a non related field or 10 years of experience in a related field, you are more than likely going to get paid the same during your first year as long as its the same comapny and geographic region. Of course, if you go off campus to do your search, then anything is possible.

I'll throw in my 0.02 coming from someone who finished a professional program in '14.

Yes, I expect most companies will require you to sign some form of repayment agreement but not all do. I have people in my class that definitely didn't.

Going into the program, I didn't have intentions to switch industries or even companies. That said my thought was if someone wanted me after i completed I would negotiate the education payback as a sign on bonus with the new gig OR the new gig would be a substantial enough increase in pay/responsibility that the cost of the education had a rate of return acceptable.

Back to the point an above poster said, if you are searching for a new job/career, what sets you apart from a full-time MBA candidate that doesn't come with an additional $80k price tag. If I'm hiring and have the choice between the two and all else equal, or even close to equal, I know which way I'd be leaning.

Allen Gamble said:

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So....I myself am a 25 year old in Finance for an O&G company in Houston. My company offers to pay the full cost if I choose to get an MBA. It is definitely my top goal to receive one at this point in life and I'm trying to see what would best suit me when it comes to part-time vs. full-time.

Right now, I'm going on 3 years of full-time work experience with great reviews from all my superiors. However, I'm now thinking of doing consulting in the near future. My roommate is a consultant for Navigant in Houston and from what he tells me it seems like a kush job. He just finished the GMAT and is pursuing a full-time MBA sometime soon.

For me, I think a part-time MBA would work great in that McCombs offers it here as well as Rice and a few others. I recognize the opportunity cost of networking from a full-time degree, but the fact that my company will pay 100% of it and I can keep earning salary is hard to beat in my opinion.

My concern is I've heard from others that are doing their MBA's through my company that you would have to stay another 3 years afterwards.

Have any of y'all come across this before?

I would think if I received an offer from another company, that I could use whatever penalty I could incur from leaving before 3 years as leverage and have the new company take most of the burden of that.

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No company can force you to stay. There would be a financial penalty that a new company could pick up. Most won't without a similar time commitment because it is likely 6 figures.

Part-Time isn't getting you in the door at any top-level consulting firms. Also, any prestigious consulting gig is not a "kush job". It's second only to I-Banks/PE for average hours out of B-School.

I fully understand that an MBA is starting to be seen as a "have to have" for some people, but you really have to look into what added value you are getting from the program. You're not going to learn anything that isn't available online for free. I generally steer people away from part-time programs unless the company picks up the tab 100% and they are convinced they want to stay at the company long-term and this is a stepping stone.

An MBA is not just a financial decision and you only get one shot.

I'm 25 and am considering going back to get my MBA full time. My undergrad is in engineering but I have barely done any technical engineering while at work. I have 4 years experience working for an Engineering and Construction company with 3 of those years being in the field. My long term goal is to own my own business and I want to switch into consulting between now and my owning a business, so I feel a MBA would be very beneficial for me.

I've already gotten my letters of recommendation and my GMAT score is in the high 600s, but there are a couple of things I feel will be troublesome for me. My undergrad GPA is bad, and I don't have any experience managing people at work. I've managed budgets and forecasts, but I'm not sure if that counts. I don't plan on going to Harvard or anything, but do I have a chance at a top 25 program?

Also, is it worth applying at the last rounds if all I have left is the essays, or am I better off waiting until the fall to apply and start in 2018?

I probably had a worse GPA than you and I got in with substantial scholarship $$, so it can be done. If you're an engineer with mostly field experience then you should have strong project management experience and I would craft your story that way. The big thing in overcoming a low GPA is making up for it with a GMAT that beats the target school mean and a well polished resume/story.

If I were you, I'd hold off until next fall to apply, because your odds are much better in the first round than the last and you could improve your chances of admission by visiting schools and polishing your application. Some schools do early admissions, where you agree to drop all other applications if you're accepted. Those applicants have higher odds of admission, so find a school that you would be willing to make that commitment and apply early.

Some good discussion here.

Does anyone know someone who actually regrets getting an MBA? It seems like most recommend full time programs for valid reasons but I've heard of few people that were disappointed with a professional or part time program. I suppose it may be a confirmation bias issue.

Buck Compton said:

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Allen Gamble said:

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So....I myself am a 25 year old in Finance for an O&G company in Houston. My company offers to pay the full cost if I choose to get an MBA. It is definitely my top goal to receive one at this point in life and I'm trying to see what would best suit me when it comes to part-time vs. full-time.

Right now, I'm going on 3 years of full-time work experience with great reviews from all my superiors. However, I'm now thinking of doing consulting in the near future. My roommate is a consultant for Navigant in Houston and from what he tells me it seems like a kush job. He just finished the GMAT and is pursuing a full-time MBA sometime soon.

For me, I think a part-time MBA would work great in that McCombs offers it here as well as Rice and a few others. I recognize the opportunity cost of networking from a full-time degree, but the fact that my company will pay 100% of it and I can keep earning salary is hard to beat in my opinion.

My concern is I've heard from others that are doing their MBA's through my company that you would have to stay another 3 years afterwards.

Have any of y'all come across this before?

I would think if I received an offer from another company, that I could use whatever penalty I could incur from leaving before 3 years as leverage and have the new company take most of the burden of that.

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No company can force you to stay. There would be a financial penalty that a new company could pick up. Most won't without a similar time commitment because it is likely 6 figures.

Part-Time isn't getting you in the door at any top-level consulting firms. Also, any prestigious consulting gig is not a "kush job". It's second only to I-Banks/PE for average hours out of B-School.

I fully understand that an MBA is starting to be seen as a "have to have" for some people, but you really have to look into what added value you are getting from the program. You're not going to learn anything that isn't available online for free. I generally steer people away from part-time programs unless the company picks up the tab 100% and they are convinced they want to stay at the company long-term and this is a stepping stone.

An MBA is not just a financial decision and you only get one shot.

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I see what you're saying. For my roommate, he makes probably close to $70K after a year from graduation and sometimes his company will assign him to projects overseas.....right now he's assigned to work in Sao Paulo for possibly up to 3 years. I guess for me that's what makes it "kush" because of all the world traveling he can do. If I decide to leave the industry, then this is likely the path I could take.

I digress.

Back to your point....I lucked out with my company in that the pay and bennies are great with only a few cons. Right now I'm in financial accounting but since I graduated with a corporate finance degree, I'd like to get back into actual finance. So I guess the issue right now for me is, if I do decide to stay at my company, do I take a job as a financial analyst then go after an MBA? Or earn my MBA then take a new position in finance at my job with a substantial pay raise? I guess I wouldn't get that raise in the first scenario?

What was your gpa vs GMAT scores?
I had <2.5 in engineering and only 640 gmat first go round. I am studying like mad to raise score.
What/who did you guys use to improve your scores?

If you plan to stay at your current company I would not expect any immediate bump in pay regardless. It's more of a long term investment at that point. At least that's what I've seen.

Haha ok you've got me beat for low GPA. I was ~2.8 with a GMAT well over 700. I used the Economist GMAT tutor and studied my ass off. It's several hundred dollars, but there is a guarantee that you raise your score 70+ points or you get your money back. Also, if you go through a site like Beat the GMAT you can get a substantial discount as well as a crapload of other GMAT and application related resources. GMAT club tracks admissions statistics so you can get a good idea of the profile of students who get into different schools. I have also heard that Harvard's HBX CORe program is looked at highly as a way to offset poor undergrad GPA in your application. Also fairly expensive, but if you take it for credit and can test out of the equivalent MBA courses you can either save on tuition for those hours or replace them with more intensive classes that you would benefit more from.

Not taking HBX CORe, but am gonna take a HBX course on finance for fun. Thanks for the link!

foleyt said:

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Some good discussion here.

Does anyone know someone who actually regrets getting an MBA? It seems like most recommend full time programs for valid reasons but I've heard of few people that were disappointed with a professional or part time program. I suppose it may be a confirmation bias issue.

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I was happy with the network and education that came out of my McCombs dfw MBA. But the recruiting options were not as strong as the full time. We only had one guy get a McKinsey interview and two (same guy and another) get Bain.

That isn't to say that the recruiting options weren't strong. I got a lot of interviews with some great companies that I was shocked to recieve.

At what point does going back for an MBA not make financial sense? For example, a person making 100k would for go 100k in salary (two years) incur tuition (200k) and pay living expenses of 50k per year.

Does a 500k investment make sense at that point?

The 50k a year in living expenses shouldn't come into play since those aren't incremental costs (assuming living expenses are similar before and during MBA). So really a 400k cost. So depending on the rate of return you'd need, you'd have to back into the increased salary you'd need to receive to get that rate of return. Then you'd have to decide if that number was realistic or not.

Of course there are likely non monetary benefits as well that would need to be taken into account.

I'll be in that situation (hopefully) next year. I hate my well paying job, partially because i work rotating shift, but mostly the BS in my industry. Totally ok with taking a paycut to have more happiness and family normalcy (time).

Right, but it seems like putting yourself under the gun of a 400k investment isn't the best option. Especially when you figure the PV of that decision discounting those future increases in salary.

There are non-monetary benefits, but I don't think the increase in quality of life comes with a high paying job to make financial sense.

This isn't an attack, just something I've struggled with when considering this route.