What time of year are you going?

If it is the hot months then don't cut out Glacier and Banff, cut out Black Canyon, Canyon Lands and the spike. You do not want to sit in a car 7 hours a day on 100 degree days. Stay in the mountains if it is hot.

I am also assuming the stuff in ST Louis, KC, etc is because of family as there is really no other reason to miss extra days in the mountains for days there.

Dr.Rumack said:

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You forgot Carlsbad Caverns…

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It's worth seeing but too far south from his route from Geaux Tigers to Colorado to include on this trip.

Day 8, 9 on your itinerary are going to be time sensitive. I was up there last summer and Going to the Sun Road didn't open until mid July.

Also found out that the trick to getting in the park early is to purchase a ticket for the lake cruise.

You'll want to get into the park as early as possible and take their shuttle to the top. Otherwise you'll be in line for hours.

Instead of doing two days at Glacier NP, I recommend going to Whitefish Mountain the second day. Chair lift to the top and hike down is a great time and pretty cheap.

If you can hit that area on a Thursday night in the summer, I highly recommend the Blue Moon Cafe in Columbia Falls for dinner, the Thursday night rodeo followed by dancing and Karaoke. That joint tuns into a 1980s quality meat market after the rodeo finishes. It's glorious to see young and old Americans having a great time.

Day 14 is going to be a full day trying to make Devil's Tower and Mount Rushmore fit in to one day.

I've been up there twice and both of my daughters who were in their early 20s when we went, really enjoyed the Crazy Horse Memorial.

Also, both of them enjoyed hiking around Devil's Tower and watching the Prairie Dogs at Prairie Dog town.

In Wyoming, on I-80, west of Devil's Tower, there is a massive coal strip mining operation you can see from the highway. That is something you'll want the kids to see if you want them to understand where electricity comes from.

And of course in South Dakota, stops at Wall Drug are mandatory.

Day 16, I'm a big fan of KC for food. Not just a burnt ends platter but there's a lot of good food to be found there.

If you don't have a meal on the plaza, you're missing out.

If it's summer and the Royals are in town, you can probably get some good seats for cheap.

CDub06 said:

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What an adventure.

During covid, I worked on a project for fun trying to create a road trip that hit all of the states in the least driving time, hit all of the lower 48 capitols in the least driving time, and one that hit all of the NPs in the least driving time. I did one visiting the 70 largest cities in the continental US as well.

Then I mixed some of those together for an epic theoretical trip.

Id love to do something like that. I wasted my youth.

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I've been to all 50 States so I don't need that road trip advice but, if you put together a plan for all of the MLB stadiums, I'd like to take a look at that.

Wall drug?? Just say no to that crap

I'd skip the Golden Spike. Not sure what they even have there. The spike is at Stanford and the rails were pulled up in the 40's.

mpl35 said:

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Wall drug?? Just say no to that crap

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After seeing signs for hundreds of miles, you feel compelled to stop.

What kind of vehicle will this trip be taken in?

Marauder Blue 6 said:

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What kind of vehicle will this trip be taken in?

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I'm hoping rv… expecting Toyota Camry with how he enjoys cramming things together

Ha! As stated earlier, it will be in a minivan. Toyota Sienna is you need specifics!

If they were to take away Banff and Glacier what do you people suggest for spending those five to six extra days either in addition to or more time at those previous locations ??

Dang sorry it was a downer for you. I was there on a 55 degree evening walking around learning about it. Had several Bud Lights as the sun was setting. I thought it was great.

Wicked Good Ag said:

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If they were to take away Banff and Glacier what do you people suggest for spending those five to six extra days either in addition to or more time at those previous locations ??

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After talking to wife, we are cutting out Glacier and Banff. I am bummed because I really want to go to those two. However, we decided to go to the NW states PLUS Banff in 2024 so all good.

We are going to add a stop in Denver for a Rockies game. This is another list in our family. My eldest son is collecting baseballs for all parks. Rockies would be new. We will make Arches and Canyonlands a day each. Teton will get a full day and Yellowstone will get two full days. Still have two more days to sprinkle in there.

HollywoodBQ said:

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CDub06 said:

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What an adventure.

During covid, I worked on a project for fun trying to create a road trip that hit all of the states in the least driving time, hit all of the lower 48 capitols in the least driving time, and one that hit all of the NPs in the least driving time. I did one visiting the 70 largest cities in the continental US as well.

Then I mixed some of those together for an epic theoretical trip.

Id love to do something like that. I wasted my youth.

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I've been to all 50 States so I don't need that road trip advice but, if you put together a plan for all of the MLB stadiums, I'd like to take a look at that.

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I actually only lack Michigan and Alaska. This was more of just a puzzle to solve while I had time to kill at home. Not an actual trip I'd take.

You see the fastest 48 by car? Seems miserable but fun

caleblyn said:

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Wicked Good Ag said:

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If they were to take away Banff and Glacier what do you people suggest for spending those five to six extra days either in addition to or more time at those previous locations ??

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After talking to wife, we are cutting out Glacier and Banff. I am bummed because I really want to go to those two. However, we decided to go to the NW states PLUS Banff in 2024 so all good.

We are going to add a stop in Denver for a Rockies game. This is another list in our family. My eldest son is collecting baseballs for all parks. Rockies would be new. We will make Arches and Canyonlands a day each. Teton will get a full day and Yellowstone will get two full days. Still have two more days to sprinkle in there.

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Good plan. Glacier is amazing. I mean awe inspiring. But so is Yellowstone and this will be so much more rewarding. Cardinals game on your radar? This fall we flew out there and did the arch and a game. It's a good park. Good crowd. Nice area near the ballpark.

knoxtom said:

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caleblyn said:

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Before you start reading...I realize it will be fast-paced. I realize that some of the spots require longer duration. This is a trip to check a bunch of boxes with my kids before they get too old. It will be a haul, but I am looking froward to it.

Day 1
Leave Baton Rouge at 1:00 and drive

Day 2
Great Sand Dunes NP
Stay with some friends

Day 3
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP

Day 4
Canyonlands NP
Arches NP

Day 5
Golden Spike (Transcontinental Railroad Meeting Point)

Day 6
Grand Tetons NP
South Yellowstone

Day 7
North Yellowstone

Day 8
Glacier NP

Day 9
Glacier NP

Day 10
Banff

Day 11
Banff

Day 12
Drive

Day 13
Little Bighorn National Monument
Theodore Roosevelt NP

Day 14
Devils Tower NM
Wind Cave NP
Mount Rushmore

Day 15
Badlands NP

Day 16
Kansas City
National WWI Museum

Day 17
St. Louis
Gateway Arch
I leave the family via airplane to go home for work. Family resumes.

Day 18
Kentucky
Ark Encounter

Day 19
Creation Museum

Day 20
Travel Home


7,908 miles

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I don't understand a trip like this. What exactly are you expecting to see at Black Canyon (to pick one of your stops at random) in the 45 minutes or so you have? The north side is the better side and it is a beast to get to. You should also think about your time of year. Sand Dunes, Black Canyon, Arches... people die in those places in the summer because it is a hundred and fifty degrees in those places in the summer. I live a couple hours from GSDNP and you visit that in May.

And I just have to ask... why would anyone go to see a spike in the ground in the worst part of Utah? That is almost as boring as 4 corners..

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Do you have your geography mixed up?
No one's dying in the Colorado mountains in the summer. GSDNP and BCGNP are like 85 degrees in July.

Arches, yes. Colorado, no.

caleblyn said:

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Wicked Good Ag said:

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If they were to take away Banff and Glacier what do you people suggest for spending those five to six extra days either in addition to or more time at those previous locations ??

---

After talking to wife, we are cutting out Glacier and Banff. I am bummed because I really want to go to those two. However, we decided to go to the NW states PLUS Banff in 2024 so all good.

We are going to add a stop in Denver for a Rockies game. This is another list in our family. My eldest son is collecting baseballs for all parks. Rockies would be new. We will make Arches and Canyonlands a day each. Teton will get a full day and Yellowstone will get two full days. Still have two more days to sprinkle in there.

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What is your start date?

While in Arches and Canyonlands I would hit up Dead Horse Point State Park in between the two

Same while in South Dakota his up Custer State Park

both of those are top 25 state parks in America according to many

I would add a Royals and or Cardibals game if into baseball along with Negro League museum in KC while there

62strat said:

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knoxtom said:

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caleblyn said:

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Before you start reading...I realize it will be fast-paced. I realize that some of the spots require longer duration. This is a trip to check a bunch of boxes with my kids before they get too old. It will be a haul, but I am looking froward to it.

Day 1
Leave Baton Rouge at 1:00 and drive

Day 2
Great Sand Dunes NP
Stay with some friends

Day 3
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP

Day 4
Canyonlands NP
Arches NP

Day 5
Golden Spike (Transcontinental Railroad Meeting Point)

Day 6
Grand Tetons NP
South Yellowstone

Day 7
North Yellowstone

Day 8
Glacier NP

Day 9
Glacier NP

Day 10
Banff

Day 11
Banff

Day 12
Drive

Day 13
Little Bighorn National Monument
Theodore Roosevelt NP

Day 14
Devils Tower NM
Wind Cave NP
Mount Rushmore

Day 15
Badlands NP

Day 16
Kansas City
National WWI Museum

Day 17
St. Louis
Gateway Arch
I leave the family via airplane to go home for work. Family resumes.

Day 18
Kentucky
Ark Encounter

Day 19
Creation Museum

Day 20
Travel Home


7,908 miles

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I don't understand a trip like this. What exactly are you expecting to see at Black Canyon (to pick one of your stops at random) in the 45 minutes or so you have? The north side is the better side and it is a beast to get to. You should also think about your time of year. Sand Dunes, Black Canyon, Arches... people die in those places in the summer because it is a hundred and fifty degrees in those places in the summer. I live a couple hours from GSDNP and you visit that in May.

And I just have to ask... why would anyone go to see a spike in the ground in the worst part of Utah? That is almost as boring as 4 corners..

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Do you have your geography mixed up?
No one's dying in the Colorado mountains in the summer. GSDNP and BCGNP are like 85 degrees in July.

Arches, yes. Colorado, no.

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Great sand dunes is about 2 hours from my house. It is VERY hot in July and Medano creek will have quit surging/flowing. It is not in the mountains it is in the San Luis Valley. It will be very hot in the day in July and cold at night. Plus there is zero shade and zero humidity to stop solar radiation.

I am pretty sure he is not going in the Black Canyon given he only has a couple hours. That means he will be at the rim, which is also really hot in July. No shade, no humidity.

Both of these places are high desert, they will hit around 90 -100 every day in July and Colorado 90+ with no shade is not a joke.

As for no one dying in the mountains in July, that is crazy. I give away about a half dozen water bottles a summer to overweight Texans hiking in the mountains. With the increased sun exposure here an 85 degree day in the sun in Colorado melts Texans.

You give away water? I'll take some! GSDNP is blistering hot in the summer as soon as the sun is up.

Also lots of people die in the summer in Colorado.

As a person who loves all of these places, I'm a hard pass on this trip. I would be so disappointed if I did this. It's so much work and the payoff seems minimal for what these places offer.

mpl35 said:

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You give away water? I'll take some! GSDNP is blistering hot in the summer as soon as the sun is up.

Also lots of people die in the summer in Colorado.

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where are you guys getting your data from?

Average high of 80 in great sand dunes in July. Doesn't matter if you live two hours away, I think you are overly exaggerating this.

Yes, sand is hot, but 80 is not killing anyone with half a brain, and is nothing like arches, which can easily be 25-30 degrees hotter.



Sorry to derail.

Have you hiked Great sand dunes?

62strat said:

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mpl35 said:

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You give away water? I'll take some! GSDNP is blistering hot in the summer as soon as the sun is up.

Also lots of people die in the summer in Colorado.

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where are you guys getting your data from?

Average high of 80 in great sand dunes in July. Doesn't matter if you live two hours away, I think you are overly exaggerating this.

Yes, sand is hot, but 80 is not killing anyone with half a brain, and is nothing like arches, which can easily be 25-30 degrees hotter.



Sorry to derail.

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And this is a perfect example of why internet stats are stupid. It is probably based on the last 100 years and I am telling you it is way hotter now.

The sun at 7000 feet is way more extreme. There is literally zero shade. The sand is white and reflects it all on you, and last it will be 95+ degrees there in July.

Do whatever you want. But I am telling you, the sand dunes and rim around black canyon suck in July.

And if you do go into the real black canyon here is some advice from someone who has actually been at river level. The poison ivy at riverside is the worst in the world. The stalks were as big around as my arm and lasted a mile. Even at water side at the bottom of the canyon it was scalding hot, you were going through a p I jungle, and it sucked. The bottom of that gorge is scary a f. Class 5 rapids with class 5 consequences and it gets dark in there at 3:30 pm. Rocks like houses.

But tell me more about how pleasant it is.

HollywoodBQ said:

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mpl35 said:

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Wall drug?? Just say no to that crap

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After seeing signs for hundreds of miles, you feel compelled to stop.

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My family insisted on spending like 2 hours in it and I missed the missile silo tour down the road because of this literal tourist trap. It felt like a cheaper version of Bucees, yet with the old timey fire hazard feeling of an old building.

Sorry wrong thread

mpl35 said:

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Have you hiked Great sand dunes?

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yes I've been. Why would I be in this conversation if I hadn't?
Twice; in July 2017 with a 2.5 Year old on my shoulders most of the way, and wife with 1.5 year old on hers, and again in June 2018, that time we got smarter and had the backpack carrier things.

Mid hike break, 11am on 7/29. Look at all those people about to die out there. And how white that sand is. Puts white sands in NM to shame! We must be terrible parents, putting our kids in danger like this.



End of June, hiking up a few hundred yards and sliding, rolling down




Must have had a few consecutive anomaly years that weren't so hot, because that July day I remember being a reprieve from the 90s in Denver. Maybe call it low-mid 80s.
I guess knoxtom is a climate change type because it's apparently 'way hotter now'. You know, just in the last 5 years.

We have done black canyon as well, albeit in October. But it's 8000 feet. Average July high doesn't even reach 90. Yes a CO sun is hot, I've been here 10 years. But again, I'm comparing to arches as that was the original comparison that I'm disputing. In my opinion it's not even close. Mid day in July in arches is an actual hazard.

Man… not easy linking Dropbox pics from mobile!

We did the same thing in June several years ago. Not hot at all. Cool actually.

Did have to stop and help one poor fool who tried to pull a pop up camper with an older minivan up that long rough road.

My wife and I went to Black Canyon, Arches, and Canyonlands in 2021 in mid-June. It was hot (105+ in Arches) and we had a great time. We hiked on the rim of the canyon, took plenty of water, went hiking in the morning at Arches and in Cayonlands in the later afternoon/evening and it was fine. With just a little bit of planning to pick cooler times for your longer hikes and taking plenty of water to stay hydrated, it is completely manageable and no reason to skip those parks.

I believe the cliffs and walls and the tightness of the canyon at BCOTG are more spectacular and easily viewable than the Grand Canyon. Sure, the GC is bigger, but I thought BCOTG was more impressive geologically (I am a geologist so maybe I am biased). I can't imagine driving past those parks and not stopping.

Seeing Canyonlands in late afternoon sun with the sun setting and throwing shadows was more visually beautiful than midday and going into Arches after dinner to watch the sun set, stargaze, and look at arches lit by moonlight was a whole different way to appreciate the beauty of that park.

I fully expect this trip to be hot! I did south Utah two years ago and am familiar. Too bad everywhere can't be like Bryce where it is unusually cool! I was wearing a jacket in June.

The kids will hate the Sand Dunes, but it is a NP so here we go! White Sands was rated last on our last trip.

KC Royals are out of town.
COL Rockies in town.
STL Cardinals in town.

We will hit COL and STL for sure!

Ok, here is the update.

Day 1
Leave Baton Rouge at 1:00 and drive

Day 2
Great Sand Dunes NP
Stay with some friends

Day 3
Denver
Colorado Rockies Game
Stay the night in Denver

Day 4
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP
Travel to Moab

Day 5
Canyonlands NP

Day 6
Arches NP

Day 7
Golden Spike (Transcontinental Railroad Meeting Point)

Day 8
Grand Tetons NP

Day 9
South Yellowstone

Day 10
North Yellowstone

Day 11
Little Bighorn National Monument

Day 12
Theodore Roosevelt NP
Devils Tower NM

Day 13
Wind Cave NP
Mount Rushmore

Day 14
Badlands NP
Drive towards KC

Day 15
Kansas City
National WWI Museum

Day 16
St. Louis
Cardinals Game
Gateway Arch

Day 17
I leave the family via airplane to go home for work. Family resumes.

Day 18
Kentucky
Ark Encounter

Day 19
Creation Museum

Day 20
Travel Home


6,441 miles

While i still think this is too much it is much more doable now

I would chart the amount of time each day you will need for driving each day and how much time you want to spend doing stuff associated to the day's activites

Start looking for interesting places to eat and side activites to maybe break up the day from being in the van

I would add Custer State Park in the listing and not just national parks unless it is more important to you to check off national parks vs actual scenery and activities

Do you have an America the Beautiful Pass and do you have any reservations yet in any national park ?

What is basic state date and end date in terms of possible side things ?

I just don't get this trip. At all. Where's the fun in going to these places if you can't experience them?