How do you expect to win a baseball game when your starting right fielder is batting .183?

He needs to be gone, quickly. It's ridiculous how many chances we've given this guy. yet he'll continue to be in the lineup...

edit:
let's update this as of tonight 5-23 half way through the game... he's 0-2, down to .178.

POINT ONE SEVEN EIGHT. read that aloud.



[This message has been edited by stew0720 (edited 5/23/2007 10:26p).]

To be fair, they should have given him a hit on the fielders choice play that Lee was thrown out on.

I honestly think the Astros are in trouble for the foreseeable future when it comes to offense. You've got liabilities with Ausmus, Everett, Lane, AND a pitcher's spot, and it's not like Biggio is that spectacular of a difference-maker any more. Then you've got the continuing troubles at third base. That's two-thirds of your batting order. Berkman, Pence, and Lee are a nice offensive core, but when they're you're only reliable offense, that's a big, big problem.

One of those spots can't be corrected (the pitcher's), but I don't see how you can plug five other holes with any sort of short-term plan. Do the Astros have any other legitimate offensive prospects in the upper levels of the minors? Uncle Drayton is going to have to go crazy on the free agent market this winter (not likely), the club is going to have to draft a bunch of MLB-ready bats in June (not possible), or you've got the potential of this team being bad on offense for the remainder of the prime of Berkman and Lee's careers. If you want to continue to contend, you had better hope the NL Central stays weak and you can resurrect the rotation of 2005.

Omar would have gunned him at first.

WestTx

The Astros are pretty much strapped at the upper levels when it comes to hitters. What the Astros desperately need to have happen is Luke Scott to prove himself as an everyday player. If he can put up a .265-.280 average, I have no doubt that he will drive in runs. Having him in the 6-hole is not that bad. Once Biggio is gone, hopefully next year, Burke will have a chance to finally play where he needs to be. While he won't be what Biggio was in his prime, Burke will be a vital cog in the offense.

Now is where things get sketchy. Essentially you have the 2-6 spots covered in the lineup. Burke, Berkman, Lee, Pence and Scott. The Astros should try and package Lidge with Morgan or Lane in an effort to fill another hole. The leadoff spot is a glaring hole that would have to be filled by a 3B or SS since the other spots are full. That is going to be quite a challenge since those two positions are so hard to come by. As for Ausmus, one would have to think he is at the end of the road also. Hopefully Uncle Drayton will sign a free agent to fill that spot.

When it comes to the rotation, the Astros must have Jennings back and healthy and once that happens they MUST resign him. The young pitching on the horizon is looking promising. Woody was a bad investment, but like I said several times this year and before it, the Astros are in a transition year, whether they want to admit it or not. With the old guards, Biggio and Ausmus at the end of the road and Williams most likely only a one year guy there will be plenty of chances for the younger guys to make a name for themselves.

With that being said, the Astros must shake up things in the trade market. They must sell some part and hope for whatever prospects they get in return to pan out. By trading away so many young guys over the last few years and having pretty much nothing to show from the Billy Wagner trade they have depleted their system of guys who can help now. I don't know if they can pull it off in one offseason, but I do think in the next 2-3 years, you could see a pretty damn good team in Houston.

2009 Lineup

Rotation

Roy
Jennings
Backe
Patton
FA/Wandy/Albers/Sampson/other prospect

1B Berkman
2B Burke
SS ?/Everett
3B ?
LF Lee
CF Pence
RF Anderson/Scott/Rodriguez/Parraz
C FA

Pen

Wheeler
Qualls
Paulino
Rodriguez
Albers
Nieve

I know I bounced around in this post, but there is alot to cover with the Astros.

Most of the guys at Round Rock are solid players but older. Guys that won't make an impact on the major league squad. Jesse Garcia is hitting .324 at SS and has some major league experience, but he is 34 years old. Mark Saccomanno is having a nice year at 3B hitting .316, 7 HR, 24 RBI. He's a guy out of Baylor, but once again, he's already 27 years old. Danny Klassen is actually having a nice year too, but he's 32. The youngest guy they have at RR and is probably the top prospect is Josh Anderson. He's almost 25. If he could play RF, he could be the leadoff guy the Astros need. He's hitting .273, already swiped 14 bases. He doesn't take enough walks though and maybe strikes out a little too much for a leadoff guy.

By the way, Munson is having a pretty decent year at .282, 6 HR and 21 RBI. I don't think he's in the Astros plans at all though. They seem set on Gimenez getting healthy.

K's too often and doesn't take enough walks. How is that any different that having Biggio hit at the top of the lineup for the last several years. I think this is a make or break year for Anderson. They really need him to make some strides and show that he could be more than just a prosect.

The problem with Munson is that he is a catcher who doesn't catch the ball very well.

Sucks that the one shortstop that was worth a damn we traded away to get huff last year...

Has Zorbist (sp?) really done anything with the Devil Rays?

No, Zobrist hit .159 in 19 games and is back in AAA.

Burke is not in the Astros future. He continues to work his way out of the organization with his performance. He got send down to the minors because he wasn't getting it done after being given the starting CF job. Now, he is hitting .160 at AAA Round Rock.

Burke will be in the opening day lineup next year at second base. You can mark it down.

our batting averages are .000 sooooooo credit to them for making the show and living their dreams, but anything less than a .200 is grounds for their dreams to come to an end because we are sadly not too many hits and ABs from catching up to them should the astros decide to do something crazy and sign one of us.

Let's get this straight, so there's no confusion------Lane should get 0 more starts this year, he's had plenty of chances, it's time to cut the cord
Scott hasn't been great this year but does everyone realize he's hitting .321 with runners on, .310 wint RISP, and .333 with RISP and 2 outs--he should permanently be placed in RF and the 5 spot in the lineup. No more splitting time, no more movement around the lineup. When he gets a day off Berkman should be moved to the OF and Lamb should get the start at 1B, under no circumstances should Lane start any longer.
The thing is this is so simple. We have 2 players who would excel at the top of the lineup, Loretta and Pence. Bat Pence in the #2 slot and Loretta leadoff, the both are fully capable. That moves Biggio back to the 6 slot. Loretta can split time at SS and 3B. That puts Ensberg/Everett in the 8 hole and Ausmus hitting 7th. Suddenly, that lineup doesn't look terrible. It's pretty simple, even a caveman could do it, unfortunately a moron can't, so we're stuck with Lane, Everett, and Ensberg all playing on the same day. And once Biggio gets his 3000 hit Loretta can start more there and we can work Lamb into the starting lineup at 3rd and he can take Biggio's spot in the lineup at 6th.

1-Loretta-SS/3B
2-Pence-CF
3-Berkman-1B
4-Lee-LF
5-Scott-RF
6-Biggio-2B
7-Ausmus-C
8-Everett-SS/Ensberg-3B
9-SP

Lamb should be a spot starter at the most. When he gets regular starts, he makes Ensberg look like an all-star. Burke is not the future at 2nd base unless he gets his hitting together. If he can't get a steady average above .240, he should be shipped out. Lee, Pence, and Scott should be the starters in the OF. Ensberg/Loretta, Everett/Loretta, Biggio, and Berkman around the horn and Ausmus at catcher.

Everyone of you have clammered on about the hitting lineup. You got it this past sunday at the Rangers and they could get crap done besides Pence. There is no excuse for not putting runs on the board against one of the worst pitching staffs in the majors.

The problem is, there is no leadership. Lance isnt the step up and take a stand kind of guy. And once Bagwell left, Biggio never took over. This team doesnt feel like a team.

I agree, get rid of Lane.

Here is my realistic every-day batting order..

Ensberg
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Scott
Biggio
Everett
Ausmus
Pitcher

Here is my lineup with Loretta in it..

Ensberg
Loretta
Berkman
Lee
Scott
Pence
Biggio
Ausmus
Pitcher

That is such Phil Garner logic

"I tried it once, see it didn't work so shut up"

OK so maybe we didn't score runs in that blowout, Maybe if you gave them a chance at constant AB's by consistently starting them you'd see something, or maybe they'd be terrible, the point is we know at this point what Everett, Ensberg, and Lane have done with consistent AB's and a starting spot, and that's not much, it's time to try something new. Besides, there's also been plenty of times thus far when Loretta especially has gotten a spot start and the offense has played well.

Actually they have gotten themselves to second in the division behind the best Brewers team in history..

so saying Everett, and Ensberg havent done anything is wrong. Lane, you might be right.

mazag- Please quit posting on this thread. You are dumbing it up. Saying that Morgan should hit leadoff or that Everett has something in his bat is Astro tinted glasses buddy. Realize what is going on please.

The "best Brewers team in history"? Wow. I like this Brewers team, but let's see if they make it past the All-Star break before crowning them better than that 1982 World Champion.

WestTx

Mazag wasn't alive in '82 so I am sure it didn't happen.

let's update this as of tonight half way through the game... he's 0-2, down to .178.

POINT ONE SEVEN EIGHT. read that aloud.

Ah the old age jokes.. they never get old.

only a moron would think that Morgan is our future leadoff hitter. But nor now, he is a good move, and leaps and bounds better than Mr. selfish. He strikes out alot, but he also walks alot. If you put someone decent behind him like Pence, then you have a very high chance of success. But dont worry, you just keep up with your elitist attitude. It might get you somewhere one day.

mazag08,

A simple "whoops, my bad, I didn't realize that the Brewers used to be great in the late '70s and early '80s" would've done. You're only making it worse by trying to attack back.

sorry

[This message has been edited by mazag08 (edited 5/23/2007 10:40p).]

0-3 awesome job Lane, good decision going with him Phil and way to slide him into the 6 spot .176 on the season. You know what Garner, if you're going to do this, at least commit. Start him every game, bat him cleanup and let's see if he can dip below the .150 mark. At least that would be entertaining. As it is now this strategy is just a big middle finger to the Astros fans.

6 hitters hitting .237 or below (which is 13 points below what Brian Moehler is hitting) in our starting lineup tonight, just awesome awesome game strategy.

What else do you suggest Poppa? No other lineup that anyone has given here has done anything better.
I agree with you that Lane shouldn't be playing but maybe once a month. Ensberg is a good choice against lefties since he is hitting .300+ against them. Biggio is in a slump, but he usually comes out of those. I don't know why Humberto is getting this many starts. Everett had to play since Loretta was playing first giving Berkman a day off.

How about not giving Aumus the day off today, he's at least a bit better than Humberto, Scott instead of Lane. How about Lamb who's hitting .320+ starting at 1st and giving Biggio or Everett the day off and starting Loretta there, thus offsetting some of the offense we lose by sitting Berkman. Garner said "Screw it, we got Albers going against their ace, I'll start the worst hitting lineup I can think of." Seriously, unless we do something ludicrous like starting Palmeiro and Lane at the same time while keeping the rest of the lineup like this, this is the worst possible hitting lineup Garner could have put together. Seriously, try to put together a worse plausible hitting lineup. Garner was content to give away this game, unfortunate since this is probably Albers last start in the bigs for awhile and he pitched relatively well.

Lamb doesnt produce when he starts.

I agree with Scott even though he is no better than Lane against leftys.

Humberto has been catching the 5th starter all year I think.

I see what Garner is doing, he is trying to find a winning combination. Thing is, there are way too many holes right now and nodoy is playing with any heart except Pence.

Berkmann is not a very good hitter from the right side. He is also swinging at way to many balls, which I don't ever remeber him doing. It seems like everytime I watch an Astros game Berkmann is from the right side. It seems like clubs have figured out that all they have to do is throw a lefty to turn Berkmann around and get Lane into the lineup, = win for them.

Here's my suggestion:

SS Loretta
3B Lamb
1B Berkman
LF Lee
2B Biggio
CF Pence
RF Scott
C Ausmus
Pitcher

And let them stay out there for several games. Bottom line is, we are struggling mightily to put up runs and we need ALL of our best hitters playing everyday--that means Everett, Ensberg, and most importantly, Lane, should be riding the pine until we come out of this slump.

Biggio behind Lee?

Your order was looking good until that popped up. Switch him and Scott and youve got yourself a decent lineup!

I'd bat Pence behind Lee. Otherwise, Lee will never see a pitch to hit.

Everett went 0-3 and is hitting .188

[This message has been edited by Ags #1 (edited 5/24/2007 11:03p).]