This guy is the most electric player in baseball.....the best defensive player in baseball, on pace for 40/40... .leading his team into the post season. Cubs would have completely drowned in injuries without him this year!

Biggest thing he did was to learn the strike zone better. Only walked 29 times last year and is already at 70 this year. Baseball is way easier when you don't get yourself out by chasing pitches way outside the zone.

Farmer1906 said:

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The offense is similar. What's more valuable? One of the greatest defensive seasons ever in CF or Cy Young level pitching for 14 games.

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150+ games of elite defense is way more valuable than 85 innings of great pitching.....especially since the Cubs are on their 7th, 8th, 9th starters in the rotation

But the offense favors PCA

I think this board just really doesn't like Shohei, which I totally understand, but I think that plus the MVP fatigue is factoring into this way more than people want to admit... I may be in the minority, but I don't know how this is even much of a debate.

I love PCA and think he's an absolute stud. He's awesome to watch, he's obviously one of the best defensive players in baseball, steals bases, does everything, etc. I'm not trying to take anything away from him at all.
But their offensive numbers are basically the same. The OPS+ in the graphic above is literally identical.

So then what are we arguing?

• PCA gives you elite defense in CF and base running.
  
• Shohei gave you 85+ innings of Cy Young level pitching.
  
  

I feel like people are just completely throwing that out because he hasn't pitched in a few weeks, which is insane to me. Those innings still happened. He was one of the best hitters in baseball AND one of the best pitchers in baseball at the same time.

And I think everyone has gotten so used to Shohei being Shohei that people don't even really process how ridiculous that is anymore.

My biggest thing though, is as great as PCA is - we've seen amazing 5 tool players before. We've seen great hitters who play elite defense and steal bases. Obviously PCA is having a fantastic season, but versions of that type of player have existed throughout baseball history. We've seen it plenty of times.

But what Shohei does... should not exist in modern baseball.

You should not be able to hit at an MVP level and also take the ball every 5 days and pitch at a Cy Young level. Most Major League players spend their entire lives trying to be just above average at ONE of those things.... he's elite at both. It's insane.

So if the offense is essentially a wash, I just don't understand how elite CF defense outweighs also being one of the best starting pitchers in baseball for half the season.


To me the MVP should just be the best baseball player (which I realize is heavily argued) and if two guys are basically equal offensively, I'm taking the guy who was also pitching like a Cy Young candidate and doing something that a few years ago no one thought was possible.

It sounds like Shohei is returning to the mound this weekend. If he pitches anything like he was earlier in the year for another month, then I really don't know how you vote against him. At that point you're talking about basically the same offensive season as PCA, except one guy also gave you 100+ innings of elite starting pitching.

I just think Shohei has broken everyone's brain to the point where what he's doing somehow feels normal now, and it absolutely isn't.

And I think, kind of like Jordan in the 90's, a lot of people are just tired of him winning. Add in the gambling stuff and the fact that he plays for the ****ing Dodgers and I get why people want someone else to win it.

But none of that changes what he actually did on a baseball field this year.