iBrad said:

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At what point do teams start factoring in a pitcher missing 12-18 months when negotiating contracts?

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Yep. What worries me is we have a few young arms that haven't had it yet. Hoping it stays away after Luis, LMJ, and Javier had to get it

tjack16 said:

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iBrad said:

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At what point do teams start factoring in a pitcher missing 12-18 months when negotiating contracts?

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Yep. What worries me is we have a few young arms that haven't had it yet. Hoping it stays away after Luis, LMJ, and Javier had to get it

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Add JV and Urquidy to that list. We have had 5.

pic.twitter.com/lyOTNG63bX

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) March 11, 2025

Mr Gigem said:

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I'm being told if at least 500 tickets are sold, then there will be an Aggie Astros jersey

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how does this work with season tickets?

why do 500 tickets need to be sold?

I don't know, you'll need to ask the Astros rep that is coordinating the event. If you click on the link, you'll see their direct contact info.

If it's anything like the Rangers, then full and half season ticket holders would have the ability to purchase a voucher for the community night item, rather than a whole separate ticket. But I don't know how the Astros do it. That rep will know. Maybe I'll tell him to create a TA account

I'm sure the 500 ticket threshold is to justify the added cost of a jersey

Walk-off home run today.

Quo Vadis? said:

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All I do is Nguyen said:

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Can the MLB or the owners do something in the next CBA about all these damn TJ surgeries? The amount of torque and spin these guys put on the ball is only going to get crazier

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Only thing I could think of is raise the active roster limit to 30 or so to allow MLB teams to carry an additional 4 pitchers, and change the rules where an SP gets credit for 4 IP instead of 5.

But that would zap a lot of offense from the game and they don't want to do that so instead they'll have these dudes snap their arms in half every few years

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That's what I was thinking as well. They need to expand the rosters IMO. I also saw a post from John rocker (Yeah THAT Rocker), saying that kids are playing too much baseball in their youth with all the year round travel teams. He said he would play baseball during the season but go play other sports which gave his arm a break. Just some food for thought

AustinCountyAg said:

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100% that's a large part of the problem. Mommies and daddies and making little Joey play "travel ball" year around starting at age 7. Absolutely stupid. Even more so when they are getting kids to start pitching at the age and teaching them to throw curve balls all so they can win a World Series ring from a tournament taking place in Franklin, Tx.

Obviously I'm not a huge fan of select ball, especially at the younger ages but yes it's a contributing factor to pitcher injuries these days when they get older.

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The problem with this is that the rec ball is terrible, and there is little to no sandlot playing with kids down the street anymore. Any kids who want to play and care about playing are select.

There are some major issues with how select ball is being handled. Too many innings, not proper arm care, dangerous mechanics, and pushing to win meaningless events.

But there is another major issue. We found ways to push past physical limits with velocity and spin. Pitchers can make the ball do things that make it damn near impossible to hit. Everyone is chasing that because that is what gets you opportunities and a lot of times success.

MaxPower said:

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Yeah there was a study showing the ligaments don't fully develop until early 20's. I theorize this is why Framber has been so healthy.

This isn't a problem unique to America though as a lot of Latin players have TJ as well. They sign to pro ball at 16 and are training long before that.

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And Japan too. Their youth training is absolutely insane.

I agree. Teams are popping up everywhere. Every dad wants to build one for his baby to star on.

Triple for me today. I always forget to play until I see y'all posting random walk-offs haha.

Framber Valdez (and Kyle Tucker) are featured in part 2 of @TimBritton's extension week package - https://t.co/YhtaQOwLhJ

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) March 11, 2025

Here are some Astros' Grapefruit League numbers:

Smith 9-for-17, 2 homers, 5 walks
Peña, 8-for-16, 2 homers
Dezenzo, 7-for-24
Meyers, 6-for-20
Rodgers, 4-for-16
Alvarez, 3-for-17
Diaz, 3-for-25
Singleton, 3-for-24
McCormick, 2-for-13, 6 walks
Altuve, 2-for-15
Dubón, 1-for-19

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) March 11, 2025

Just my opinion but the damage is done well before there's an issue with MLB rosters. The amount of pitching and throwing kids do now is nuts.

Mr Gigem said:

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I don't know, you'll need to ask the Astros rep that is coordinating the event. If you click on the link, you'll see their direct contact info.

If it's anything like the Rangers, then full and half season ticket holders would have the ability to purchase a voucher for the community night item, rather than a whole separate ticket. But I don't know how the Astros do it. That rep will know. Maybe I'll tell him to create a TA account

I'm sure the 500 ticket threshold is to justify the added cost of a jersey

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astros do add on packages also ex: https://www.mlb.com/astros/fans/orbit/birthday

i'd buy a ticket/jersey if i knew it was definitely going to happen, not going to buy a ticket and hope for one though

Yeah I did think that was strange. We pre-purchase 4,000 jerseys for ours

I would assume Houston being the major hub for Ags that it is, there would lots of sales

EastCoastAgNc said:

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Framber Valdez (and Kyle Tucker) are featured in part 2 of @TimBritton's extension week package - https://t.co/YhtaQOwLhJ

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) March 11, 2025

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He recommends 5/134 for a Framber extension. That's a lot of money.

txags92 said:

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I think the pitch clock is just going to make it worse. Guys used to be able to step off and play with the rosin bag for a bit to let their arm recover a bit or step off and go through the signs again. Now it doesn't matter if your elbow is twinging a bit, you have to throw a pitch.

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There's a whole lot that goes into it but I don't think the pitch clock has anything to do with it. If a pitcher feels something in his arm throwing a pitch in 20 seconds or 2 minutes won't make a difference. By the time they feel it, it's too late.

Having a son who is a HS freshman now and a pitcher with plus velo for his age I've gone deep down the rabbit hole on this stuff and we focus religiously on arm care for him.

There's a multitude of reasons going into all this:
- analytics taking over the game and placing a super-high premium on velocity & spin so pitchers are emptying the tank on every pitch. Look at a guy like Verlander who was remarkably healthy for 15+ seasons and even though he could dig down for extra to throw 98+, even late in games, he generally sat around 94-95.
-
- as analytics at the upper levels pushed velo and spin it started to trickled down over the last 10-15 years or so as kids chase more and more velo and spin when their bodies weren't built for it. So kids, parents, and coaches (primarily in select) learn more and more about the biomechanics of creating velocity so these kids who aren't physically developed put more and more torque on their arms to generate velocity. Again, using Verlander as an example - he topped out at about 85-86 as a HS senior and was around 87-90 as a freshman in college. He was 6'5" 195-200 then and by the time he was drafted by the Tigers he had added 35-40 pounds of muscle and was throwing 98-100 as he matured. My son's freshman class at a 6A HS in the Houston area has 5 freshmen who throw in the 80's and I expect 4 of those 5 to throw 90+ in the next couple years.

- I don't know if it's playing select year-round specifically so much as it is pitching year round and the pressure on kids to throw harder and more spinny stuff at younger and younger ages. I do know that there's been research showing that teaching kids to throw the traditional 12-6 curveball puts less stress on the arm than a fastball. It has to do with effort and torque. I've talked about how I follow the Tom House maxim about how kids "pitch too much but don't throw enough." And how House talks about just throwing anything, not necessarily a baseball. Go play football and throw the football. Go play basketball and throw overhand/full-court passes. Hell, just go throw rocks. Basically, he says kids today don't do enough to develop and strengthen all the various muscles which support the elbow and shoulder, so the ones specific to baseball get overworked.

- as part of kids chasing velo early I've learned that up to a certain age the tendons & ligaments are actually stronger than the bones but at a later age that flips so my son has seen a couple teammates from select and now HS ball who have had avulsion fractures in their throwing elbow which is basically severe Little League elbow where the tendon pulls the little point of bone where it connects away from the growth plate. A couple have needed surgery to basically staple the bone back to the growth plate and others have had it heal naturally. And any MLB player under about 35 these days grew up playing in that select baseball world so they've had a lot of years and probably a lot of arm stress so these TJ surgeries are the cumulative effect of that.

- as to the rec vs. select, that's a whole other discussion and really a giant one but suffice to say around this part of Houston rec ball is absolutely terrible by 9U. Lots of select is still basically rec ball with nicer uniforms though. The key is to find a team/org/coach committed to development and parents who understand that. It's not chasing rings it's fundamentals and baseball IQ to make the HS roster and if you have the love and talent to play on the showcase circuit to get a shot to play past HS. These days, HS baseball won't earn you a scholarship but it can stop you from earning one because I can promise you that the scouts will talk to your HS coaches and if they say the kid is a turd then it will hurt them.

Hornbeck said:

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Walk-off home run today.

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Same

Here’s bad video of a long Jose Altuve throw. pic.twitter.com/3KhbZwEKof

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) March 11, 2025

TODAY'S ROSTER MOVES:

The Astros optioned LHP Colton Gordon and OF Kenedy Corona to minor league camp. Houston also reassigned RHP Misael Tamarez to minor league camp.

— Houston Astros (@astros) March 11, 2025

htxag09 said:

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I'll just say rec ball is terrible by design now. Select teams used to be selective. Now you just have to have the money and they'll throw you on 10U team 5 or green or whatever. They've made a self fulfilling system at this point.

I say this as someone who has a close family member that runs a select organization (quit his hs head coaching job to do it full time a few years ago).

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This right here. Add to that the increase in games played that didn't happen in the past. Rec teams play about 15-18 a travel team will play between 30-50 per season.
My own sons unfortunately in this mix now because there just isn't rec at 11 in the area. We joined a more entry level team this year just to get him some experience in tournaments and his team has 5 kids who have any business playing at the tournament level. 3-4 would play sparingly on a rec team hitting last and maybe every other inning in RF

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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htxag09 said:

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I'll just say rec ball is terrible by design now. Select teams used to be selective. Now you just have to have the money and they'll throw you on 10U team 5 or green or whatever. They've made a self fulfilling system at this point.

I say this as someone who has a close family member that runs a select organization (quit his hs head coaching job to do it full time a few years ago).

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This right here. Add to that the increase in games played that didn't happen in the past. Rec teams play about 15-18 a travel team will play between 30-50 per season.
My own sons unfortunately in this mix now because there just isn't rec at 11 in the area. We joined a more entry level team this year just to get him some experience in tournaments and his team has 5 kids who have any business playing at the tournament level. 3-4 would play sparingly on a rec team hitting last and maybe every other inning in RF

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I will say that just because a kid on a select team isn't any good to begin with doesn't mean they shouldn't play select. They should just play on a AA level team and work to get better.

There's a lot that goes into it but a lot of select at the younger ages and AA/entry-level teams is just about getting more quality instruction and reps. But the kid has to want to be out there, it can't really be parent-driven. It's extremely difficult to get quality instruction and reps in league ball but, ideally, that's what you're looking for in select. The problem arises when Glory-days Dad puts little Timmy into select (or starts his own team) because Glory-days Dad was a failed LL player thanks to coaching politics and Timmy has zero interest in playing baseball.

Ideally, kids could play rec league and get great instruction where they learn the fundamentals and learn to play the game then move to select as they mature. But that's not the way it is anymore and that toothpaste ain't going back into the tube.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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Framber Valdez (and Kyle Tucker) are featured in part 2 of @TimBritton's extension week package - https://t.co/YhtaQOwLhJ

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) March 11, 2025

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He recommends 5/134 for a Framber extension. That's a lot of money.

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I'd be willing to pay more money if it was four years.

TarponChaser said:

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txags92 said:

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I think the pitch clock is just going to make it worse. Guys used to be able to step off and play with the rosin bag for a bit to let their arm recover a bit or step off and go through the signs again. Now it doesn't matter if your elbow is twinging a bit, you have to throw a pitch.

---

There's a whole lot that goes into it but I don't think the pitch clock has anything to do with it. If a pitcher feels something in his arm throwing a pitch in 20 seconds or 2 minutes won't make a difference. By the time they feel it, it's too late.

Having a son who is a HS freshman now and a pitcher with plus velo for his age I've gone deep down the rabbit hole on this stuff and we focus religiously on arm care for him.

There's a multitude of reasons going into all this:
- analytics taking over the game and placing a super-high premium on velocity & spin so pitchers are emptying the tank on every pitch. Look at a guy like Verlander who was remarkably healthy for 15+ seasons and even though he could dig down for extra to throw 98+, even late in games, he generally sat around 94-95.
-
- as analytics at the upper levels pushed velo and spin it started to trickled down over the last 10-15 years or so as kids chase more and more velo and spin when their bodies weren't built for it. So kids, parents, and coaches (primarily in select) learn more and more about the biomechanics of creating velocity so these kids who aren't physically developed put more and more torque on their arms to generate velocity. Again, using Verlander as an example - he topped out at about 85-86 as a HS senior and was around 87-90 as a freshman in college. He was 6'5" 195-200 then and by the time he was drafted by the Tigers he had added 35-40 pounds of muscle and was throwing 98-100 as he matured. My son's freshman class at a 6A HS in the Houston area has 5 freshmen who throw in the 80's and I expect 4 of those 5 to throw 90+ in the next couple years.

- I don't know if it's playing select year-round specifically so much as it is pitching year round and the pressure on kids to throw harder and more spinny stuff at younger and younger ages. I do know that there's been research showing that teaching kids to throw the traditional 12-6 curveball puts less stress on the arm than a fastball. It has to do with effort and torque. I've talked about how I follow the Tom House maxim about how kids "pitch too much but don't throw enough." And how House talks about just throwing anything, not necessarily a baseball. Go play football and throw the football. Go play basketball and throw overhand/full-court passes. Hell, just go throw rocks. Basically, he says kids today don't do enough to develop and strengthen all the various muscles which support the elbow and shoulder, so the ones specific to baseball get overworked.

- as part of kids chasing velo early I've learned that up to a certain age the tendons & ligaments are actually stronger than the bones but at a later age that flips so my son has seen a couple teammates from select and now HS ball who have had avulsion fractures in their throwing elbow which is basically severe Little League elbow where the tendon pulls the little point of bone where it connects away from the growth plate. A couple have needed surgery to basically staple the bone back to the growth plate and others have had it heal naturally. And any MLB player under about 35 these days grew up playing in that select baseball world so they've had a lot of years and probably a lot of arm stress so these TJ surgeries are the cumulative effect of that.

- as to the rec vs. select, that's a whole other discussion and really a giant one but suffice to say around this part of Houston rec ball is absolutely terrible by 9U. Lots of select is still basically rec ball with nicer uniforms though. The key is to find a team/org/coach committed to development and parents who understand that. It's not chasing rings it's fundamentals and baseball IQ to make the HS roster and if you have the love and talent to play on the showcase circuit to get a shot to play past HS. These days, HS baseball won't earn you a scholarship but it can stop you from earning one because I can promise you that the scouts will talk to your HS coaches and if they say the kid is a turd then it will hurt them.

---

I agree with you that all of that stuff is a big factor, but the combination of the pitch clock and the expectation that starters with go 5-7 innings instead of 9 means that are not trying to save their arm during the game. They are throwing every pitch as hard as they can with as much spin as possible and not getting much rest between pitches. It isn't any one thing; it is the combination of all of them putting more stress on arms and throwing more, harder, more taxing pitches in a shorter period of time than ever before. No idea how they fix it at the big league level, but I think max pitch counts per outing and per week at lower levels need to be a part of it.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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TODAY'S ROSTER MOVES:

The Astros optioned LHP Colton Gordon and OF Kenedy Corona to minor league camp. Houston also reassigned RHP Misael Tamarez to minor league camp.

— Houston Astros (@astros) March 11, 2025

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Pour one out for Kenny Corona.