Everyone should take notice. The Redsox way over paid for Bregs instead of a cheaper option with ArenadoEastCoastAgNc said:Nolan Arenado moves to the forefront in the third base market, now that Bregman is off the board. The Yankees have not been engaged in conversations with the Cardinals about him.
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) February 13, 2025
***** Official Houston Astros 2024-2025 Offseason Thread *****
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Last: 19 min ago by texasaggie2015
EastCoastAgNc said:The deferrals on the Alex Bregman deal are significant -- the present-day value of his contract is expected to be assessed in the range of $90 million for three years.
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) February 13, 2025
And the truth now comes out. This makes the situation fascinating, it tells me a few things.
Either:
1) Alex had very little intention of signing the longest deal for the most guaranteed money
2) Alex always wanted to play for Boston
3) Alex is delusional and thinks he will get a better deal next year
4) His ego wouldn't allow him to accept the best offer, which was the Astros all considered, because it didn't meet his $30M AAV target or was not significantly revised from the deal he rejected.
5) he doesn't understand the time value of money very well and is mesmerized by the headline of $40M/yr
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston, especially with the looming CBA in a few years
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
AggiEE said:EastCoastAgNc said:The deferrals on the Alex Bregman deal are significant -- the present-day value of his contract is expected to be assessed in the range of $90 million for three years.
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) February 13, 2025
And the truth now comes out. This makes the situation fascinating, it tells me a few things.
Either:
1) Alex had very little intention of signing the longest deal for the most guaranteed money
2) Alex always wanted to play for Boston
3) Alex is delusional and thinks he will get a better deal next year
4) His ego wouldn't allow him to accept the best offer, which was the Astros all considered, because it didn't meet his $30M AAV target or was not significantly revised from the deal he rejected.
5) he doesn't understand the time value of money very well and is mesmerized by the headline of $40M/yr
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
On paper, his best offer was 6/171 with an opt out after year 2 from the tigers
I know 2015 says there is nothing there but I don't and won't believe it. Too many signs pointed to something happening between him and the front office.
Everyone here knew when he put his condo for sale last year that he was gone. We will never know the truth but something happened.
Everyone here knew when he put his condo for sale last year that he was gone. We will never know the truth but something happened.
I'm not crying, you're crying. Build him a damn statueEastCoastAgNc said:My word, time really does move on at an unforgiving pace. And then there was one… pic.twitter.com/fhXx8DuFJB
— Astros Fans UK (@AstrosFansUK) February 13, 2025
Much worse offer? $40 million a year. He can play that three year deal out, and possibly sign another three year deal that would have earned him more than the Astros or Tigers offer over that same time span.AggiEE said:
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
Alex isn't worth close to 40 a year, so this is a win for him.
EastCoastAgNc said:AggiEE said:EastCoastAgNc said:The deferrals on the Alex Bregman deal are significant -- the present-day value of his contract is expected to be assessed in the range of $90 million for three years.
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) February 13, 2025
And the truth now comes out. This makes the situation fascinating, it tells me a few things.
Either:
1) Alex had very little intention of signing the longest deal for the most guaranteed money
2) Alex always wanted to play for Boston
3) Alex is delusional and thinks he will get a better deal next year
4) His ego wouldn't allow him to accept the best offer, which was the Astros all considered, because it didn't meet his $30M AAV target or was not significantly revised from the deal he rejected.
5) he doesn't understand the time value of money very well and is mesmerized by the headline of $40M/yr
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
On paper, his best offer was 6/171 with an opt out after year 2 from the tigers
"All considered" I said, I don't think he was ever going to sign with the tigers
Not necessarily. They're only committing $40M year by year. If he continues to decline he'll be back on the market after next year and really wishing he had that 6 or even 5 year deal he was offered. If he performs and it works for them, they keep it going.HarryRocket said:
The Red Sox just made an absolutely awful deal. Lol.
Good, we continue to move on.
Opt outs and some deferred money are the only way to justify big contracts like that.
I'm glad we didn't do it, but I don't hate it as a deal overall for them.
He wanted to play in Boston. He's really close to Cora.
He never ruled Houston out but at the end of the day Boston was where he decided to go.
Boston, Houston and Chicago were his three preferred destinations in that order from what I understand.
He never ruled Houston out but at the end of the day Boston was where he decided to go.
Boston, Houston and Chicago were his three preferred destinations in that order from what I understand.
Snake Jazz said:Much worse offer? $40 million a year. He can play that three year deal out, and possibly sign another three year deal that would have earned him more than the Astros or Tigers offer over that same time span.AggiEE said:
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
Alex isn't worth close to 40 a year, so this is a win for him.
The deal is deferred, it's the equivalent to $30M/yr
See time value of money point I raised
I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose Arenado over Bregman moving forward. I don't think it was an overpay. 3/90 of present-day money is pretty fair and reasonable. Bregman took less to be there. You got the deferral for the headlines and ego. I think it's safe to say no one will give him 3/66 after his 3 years in Boston are up. That amount is what he needs to break even with the Houston deal.
We'd only be doing this deal to 1. Save money in 2025 (Montero) 2. Shore up the INF defense. 3. Get value out of him due to the Crawford Boxes.
We'd only be doing this deal to 1. Save money in 2025 (Montero) 2. Shore up the INF defense. 3. Get value out of him due to the Crawford Boxes.
He was a shortstop at LSU. It's not unusual for good high school or college shortstop to transition to 2nd. They normally only transition to third if they have a rocket arm and pop in their bat. He probably won't have great range at this point, but as long as he can still turn a double play, he'll be just fine.astros4545 said:Farmer1906 said:The expectation is Alex Bregman will play second base for Boston, sources tell ESPN. Even though the Red Sox have top prospect Kristian Campbell coming, they saw Bregman having enough of an impact that they offered $40 million a year — with deferrals — to make the deal happen.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) February 13, 2025
Gold glove defender?
Here, come play a new position
n_touch said:
I know 2015 says there is nothing there but I don't and won't believe it. Too many signs pointed to something happening between him and the front office.
Everyone here knew when he put his condo for sale last year that he was gone. We will never know the truth but something happened.
He also tweeted "goodbye Houston" or something similar very soon after the season ended
I found that strange, as a free agent
Don't believe the Red Sox have an opt out. Only Bregman.
Hard to imagine a scenario where he performs so well that he wants to opt out of $40M to chase more $
Hard to imagine a scenario where he performs so well that he wants to opt out of $40M to chase more $
Even if deferred, he still gets the money, right? An extra ten million is worth it, even if it's essentially a pension.AggiEE said:Snake Jazz said:Much worse offer? $40 million a year. He can play that three year deal out, and possibly sign another three year deal that would have earned him more than the Astros or Tigers offer over that same time span.AggiEE said:
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
Alex isn't worth close to 40 a year, so this is a win for him.
The deal is deferred, it's the equivalent to $30M/yr
See time value of money point I raised
n_touch said:
I know 2015 says there is nothing there but I don't and won't believe it. Too many signs pointed to something happening between him and the front office.
Everyone here knew when he put his condo for sale last year that he was gone. We will never know the truth but something happened.
Nothing happened. He's really close to Cora and he wanted to go play for him.
There were some guys in the clubhouse who were frustrated with Espada early in the season last year. He was one of them. But it never got to a point where it was so bad that he decided he was leaving. Things got better over time- it's common with a rookie manager.
It really just came down to his relationship with Cora. Playing in Boston was appealing as well as he's always hit well there and the history of the organization.
Maybe I read it wrong or someone had it wrong, but I thought one of the posts said mutual opt outs.tylhair said:
Don't believe the Red Sox have an opt out. Only Bregman.
Hard to imagine a scenario where he performs so well that he wants to opt out of $40M to chase more $
If not, yah that's a horrible deal for Boston.
Digging deeper into this.Farmer1906 said:
I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose Arenado over Bregman moving forward. I don't think it was an overpay. 3/90 of present-day money is pretty fair and reasonable. Bregman took less to be there. You got the deferral for the headlines and ego. I think it's safe to say no one will give him 3/66 after his 3 gets in Boston are up. That amount is what he needs to break even with the Houston deal.
We'd only be doing this deal to 1. Save money in 2025 (Montero) 2. Shore up the INF defense. 3. Get value out of him due to the Crawford Boxes.
2024 Arenado: .719 OPS
+1 HR: .728
+2 HR: .736
+3 HR: .745
+4 HR: .753
IDK if Arenado can produce the same season in '25 as '24, but there is a path in Houston where he could sneak a few cheap HRs in and he goes from slightly above average to as good as Bregman was last year. His OBP was already higher. I still think we'd be better off going after someone more impactful or at least left handing in the INF.
Snake Jazz said:Even if deferred, he still gets the money, right? An extra ten million is worth it, even if it's essentially a pension.AggiEE said:Snake Jazz said:Much worse offer? $40 million a year. He can play that three year deal out, and possibly sign another three year deal that would have earned him more than the Astros or Tigers offer over that same time span.AggiEE said:
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
Alex isn't worth close to 40 a year, so this is a win for him.
The deal is deferred, it's the equivalent to $30M/yr
See time value of money point I raised
He gets it later, which is the issue, current interest rates are decently high. You have to evaluate them on a net present value basis, and it's around $30/yr.
The $40/yr is nothing more than headline capturing and ego stroking, but it's basically $30/yr
Bregman's Fenway spray chart makes even more sense for him as Arenado's does for the Ice Box.
Alex Bregman’s 2024 Spray Chart:
— Garrett Mashburn (@G_Mashburn) January 16, 2025
(Left) Fenway Park vs. (Right) Comerica Park
Your move, Breggy. pic.twitter.com/kqNSaEbF5m
Huh?
I don't think he took a lesser offer. And a discount?
They overpaid. If Dana would've given him that deal we'd all be pissed as all get out.
Y'all all thinking way too much into this. He wanted to be here or BOS and BOS blinked and he took the bag.
I don't think he took a lesser offer. And a discount?
They overpaid. If Dana would've given him that deal we'd all be pissed as all get out.
Y'all all thinking way too much into this. He wanted to be here or BOS and BOS blinked and he took the bag.
Farmer1906 said:Digging deeper into this.Farmer1906 said:
I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose Arenado over Bregman moving forward. I don't think it was an overpay. 3/90 of present-day money is pretty fair and reasonable. Bregman took less to be there. You got the deferral for the headlines and ego. I think it's safe to say no one will give him 3/66 after his 3 gets in Boston are up. That amount is what he needs to break even with the Houston deal.
We'd only be doing this deal to 1. Save money in 2025 (Montero) 2. Shore up the INF defense. 3. Get value out of him due to the Crawford Boxes.
2024 Arenado: .719 OPS
+1 HR: .728
+2 HR: .736
+3 HR: .745
+4 HR: .753
IDK if Arenado can produce the same season in '25 as '24, but there is a path in Houston where he could sneak a few cheap HRs in and he goes from slightly above average to as good as Bregman was last year. His OBP was already higher. I still think we'd be better off going after someone more impactful or at least left handing in the INF.
I'm for an Arenado trade at the right cost, I don't think his bat is too terrible, and his defense is highly valued for our pitching staff.
Normally yes. With the uncertainty of our economy the last couple of years that about the same as sticking $10M a year in CDs or Bonds for safe keeping. The Red Socks aren't going to default.AggiEE said:Snake Jazz said:Even if deferred, he still gets the money, right? An extra ten million is worth it, even if it's essentially a pension.AggiEE said:Snake Jazz said:Much worse offer? $40 million a year. He can play that three year deal out, and possibly sign another three year deal that would have earned him more than the Astros or Tigers offer over that same time span.AggiEE said:
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
Alex isn't worth close to 40 a year, so this is a win for him.
The deal is deferred, it's the equivalent to $30M/yr
See time value of money point I raised
He gets it later, which is the issue, current interest rates are decently high. You have to evaluate them on a net present value basis, and it's around $30/yr.
The $40/yr is nothing more than headline capturing and ego stroking, but it's basically $30/yr
It's a finance / investing thing. EE is right under normal conditions.Ag_07 said:
Huh?
I don't think he took a lesser offer. And a discount?
They overpaid. If Dana would've given him that deal we'd all be pissed as all get out.
Y'all all thinking way too much into this. He wanted to be here or BOS and BOS blinked and he took the bag.
Time Value of Money is like week one in an MBA.
texasaggie2015 said:n_touch said:
I know 2015 says there is nothing there but I don't and won't believe it. Too many signs pointed to something happening between him and the front office.
Everyone here knew when he put his condo for sale last year that he was gone. We will never know the truth but something happened.
Nothing happened. He's really close to Cora and he wanted to go play for him.
There were some guys in the clubhouse who were frustrated with Espada early in the season last year. He was one of them. But it never got to a point where it was so bad that he decided he was leaving. Things got better over time- it's common with a rookie manager.
It really just came down to his relationship with Cora. Playing in Boston was appealing as well as he's always hit well there and the history of the organization.
Also worth noting that Bregman was drafted by BOS out of high school and decided to pass and play at LSU.
Ag_07 said:
Huh?
I don't think he took a lesser offer. And a discount?
They overpaid. If Dana would've given him that deal we'd all be pissed as all get out.
Y'all all thinking way too much into this. He wanted to be here or BOS and BOS blinked and he took the bag.
He did take the lesser value. Would you rather have 3/90 or 6/170? 6/156?
If money is the only concern, the 6 year deals are FAR better given the risk of only 3 years guaranteed
Bregman checks the annuity box on lotto tickets
Cam Smith is a large individual pic.twitter.com/RS68CNXLPX
— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) February 13, 2025
So after 3 years in Boston, Breggy at 34 thinks he'll get a deal worth $66M or more?
Watch out, Jeremy.EastCoastAgNc said:Cam Smith is a large individual pic.twitter.com/RS68CNXLPX
— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) February 13, 2025
I think the play here is to ball out this year and opt out and hit the market next year.
I'm glad Crane doesn't accommodate these opt out deals.
I'm glad Crane doesn't accommodate these opt out deals.
Yes, it's a silly Facebook post, but I can't help but to share it.
Very much agree. And once again, I'm so glad Dana (and Crane) held firm and didn't give in to that insane money.Ag_07 said:
I think the play here is to ball out this year and opt out and hit the market next year.
I'm glad Crane doesn't accommodate these opt out deals.
agreed - except his home runs would die at Comerica Park.EastCoastAgNc said:AggiEE said:EastCoastAgNc said:The deferrals on the Alex Bregman deal are significant -- the present-day value of his contract is expected to be assessed in the range of $90 million for three years.
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) February 13, 2025
And the truth now comes out. This makes the situation fascinating, it tells me a few things.
Either:
1) Alex had very little intention of signing the longest deal for the most guaranteed money
2) Alex always wanted to play for Boston
3) Alex is delusional and thinks he will get a better deal next year
4) His ego wouldn't allow him to accept the best offer, which was the Astros all considered, because it didn't meet his $30M AAV target or was not significantly revised from the deal he rejected.
5) he doesn't understand the time value of money very well and is mesmerized by the headline of $40M/yr
Maybe a combination of the above. Either way, he clearly didn't want to sign with the Tigers, rejected a very generous offer from the Astros, and went with a much worse offer from Boston.
Who says players are all about the money? Doesn't look like it here, he gave the Red Sox a discount
On paper, his best offer was 6/171 with an opt out after year 2 from the tigers
Balling out and having a record year when pairing back up with Cora is gonna be suspectAg_07 said:
I think the play here is to ball out this year and opt out and hit the market next year.
I'm glad Crane doesn't accommodate these opt out deals.
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