I think there will be a big public movement for Pete, not so much for Shoeless Joe.

I agree with you, Mathguy, that he probably should not, but I think the Reds and Philly fans will make a big deal about it being a "lifetime" ban.

I agree that there will be a push but I think that as long as John Dowd is alive they won't try. Dowd hated Rose and what he did (and maybe as importantly how Rose treated Vincent) and if the Reds tried Dowd would release things he has held onto and burn Rose to the ground.

There was a trial balloon with Jackson and it failed. That group presented what evidence there was on both sides and everyone said "pass".

There seems to be evidence that Jackson took money to throw the series, despite how good or bad he was at it, or whether he just changed his mind.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Shoeless-Joe-Jackson

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Jackson, who was promised $20,000 for throwing the series (more than three times his $6,000 annual salary), in the end received only $5,000. The degree of his complicity in the scandal, however, has always been puzzling. Although he never returned the bribe, he went on to hit an outstanding .375 for the series while playing errorless ball in the field.

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Just seems like apples and oranges situation to me, so we can just agree to disagree, my Astros brotha.

I can certainly understand the opinion of those that think Rose should never get in. I'm just not in that camp.

Mathguy64 said:

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AggieJ2002 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Shoeless Joe died a long time ago and he's not in.

Dead or alive Pete won't be getting that honor.

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Major difference between those 2 and you know it.

Pete will be in at some point

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Yep. Big difference. One had hard evidence of betting on games while playing and one was anecdotal.

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One had evidence and agreed to the life time ban because of that evidence. The other probably took the money, likey one of the few of the Black Sox to actually get paid. Whether he actually helped to throw games is up to debate. I've read strong arguments that Jackson did and others that he did not.

The Jackson case is interesting.

The Grand Jury reportedly had him admitting he took the $5000 but there is no record of that in a transcript.

His teammates who did take money reportedly were angry that he refused and allegedly one threw $5000 at him in a hotel room.

Reportedly he tried to tell Comiskey of the fix but of course Comiskey wouldn't talk to him. Either he didn't want to know or he he knew and didn't want to discuss it.

The other players all stated later (much later) that Jackson took no part in the fix.

Giamatti had the chance to reopen it and take him off the banned list and refused.

I personally think he knew of the fix but didn't stop it and didn't take the money. But knowing it and not stopping it are only a cnut hair away from being a part of it.

I have no problem with him being out.

jkag89 said:

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AggieJ2002 said:

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Since the Yankees and the Mets are both in the playoffs, it raises an interesting question. If the Yankees are the Mets Daddy, does that make the Astros the Mets Grand-daddy?

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Not that I give the Amazins much chance to win the NL Pennant but it would be a lot of fun if the 'Stros could eliminate the Damn Yankees in the ALCS and then get revenge for '85 in the WS.

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Sincerely not being "that guy", but it was 86. Damn Jesse Orosco.

Pete will be in at some point but not before a handful of current sports journalists are no longer voting….

RIP Pete.

I don't think Pete is getting in at all, and I don't think he should. You cannot let betting of any sort put the outcome of your games in question, no matter how good you are or if you bet on your team.

The NFL and NBA may suck, but I absolutely agree with their no tolerance gambling policy.

The moment the integrity of the outcome is shattered, the moment you've lost your game and it will take a lot to gain it back.

love this so much

Rose can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

I'll never forget watching the 1980 NLCS and seeing Rose throw the ball down at the mound as hard as he could after every put out at 1B to end an inning. It was classic Rose and as an Astros fan it rubbed me and me everyone else at the time wrong. It's irrational but I don't care.

He's admitted to having bet on games. It took him 13 or so years after the initial ban to admit it. 13 years of lying his ass off saying he didn't and that Vincent was the one lying. I personally think he was betting on games he was playing in. Only Pete, his book and John Dowd know for sure.

He knew what he was doing and he knew the consequences.

We all watch sports for entertainment and the passion and fun of the game. If that game is fixed it ruins everything. Thats why the ban exists. It's automatic and irreversible.

Pete the man destroyed the legacy of Pete the player.

cone said:

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Beat40 said:

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I don't think Pete is getting in at all, and I don't think he should. You cannot let betting of any sort put the outcome of your games in question, no matter how good you are or if you bet on your team.

The NFL and NBA may suck, but I absolutely agree with their no tolerance gambling policy.

The moment the integrity of the outcome is shattered, the moment you've lost your game and it will take a lot to gain it back.

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let's go to the soon to be NL MVP for comment here

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Yes. My point stands for anyone in the game, even Ohtani.

They have to prove Ohtani was aware and participated though. Even if I think that amount of money couldn't have gone through without him knowing something, they do still have to prove it.

You're exactly right

Mathguy64 said:

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Rose can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

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Holy *****

Farmer1906 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Rose can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

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Holy *****

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If you were an Astros fan in 1980 you would know. Those 5 games were amazing. And devastating.

He was HATED. He was the villain.

Quote:

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Pete the man destroyed the legacy of Pete the player.

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Yep.

Texas A&M said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Rose can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

I'll never forget watching the 1980 NLCS and seeing Rose throw the ball down at the mound as hard as he could after every put out at 1B to end an inning. It was classic Rose and as an Astros fan it rubbed me and me everyone else at the time wrong. It's irrational but I don't care.

He's admitted to having bet on games. It took him 13 or so years after the initial ban to admit it. 13 years of lying his ass off saying he didn't and that Vincent was the one lying. I personally think he was betting on games he was playing in. Only Pete, his book and John Dowd know for sure.

He knew what he was doing and he knew the consequences.

We all watch sports for entertainment and the passion and fun of the game. If that game is fixed it ruins everything. Thats why the ban exists. It's automatic and irreversible.

Pete the man destroyed the legacy of Pete the player.

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Baseball is just a game. You may want to take a break for a while to regain some sense of priorities.

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For real. That level of hatred is reserved for tea-sips.

agproducer said:

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I'm drinking now, since I won't get to drink during the game tomorrow.

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This is where working from home is SOOOOOO nice.

My last meeting tomorrow is at 1pm with City of Fort Worth, who are totally cool to work with and not pretentious at all and should be done before first pitch. Let's go!!!!

Joe Kelly especially. That ****tard piece of **** can burn in hell…

Prosperdick said:

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agproducer said:

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I'm drinking now, since I won't get to drink during the game tomorrow.

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This is where working from home is SOOOOOO nice.

My last meeting tomorrow is at 1pm with City of Fort Worth, who are totally cool to work with and not pretentious at all and should be done before first pitch. Let's go!!!!

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That was not my experience selling to the Ft Worth city IT folks, YMMV.

Pete Rose was awesome. Ty Cobb. Hard nosed.

Hornbeck said:

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Prosperdick said:

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agproducer said:

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I'm drinking now, since I won't get to drink during the game tomorrow.

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This is where working from home is SOOOOOO nice.

My last meeting tomorrow is at 1pm with City of Fort Worth, who are totally cool to work with and not pretentious at all and should be done before first pitch. Let's go!!!!

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That was not my experience selling to the Ft Worth city IT folks, YMMV.

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They've been cool to me and hopefully it goes well tomorrow...I don't need any negative waves man.

AggiEE said:

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There should be zero reason to keep Yordan off the roster if there's any chance he may even play PINCH HIT for only Thursday's game, right?

Who realistically is going to have more of a potential impact?

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FIFY

ETA: so yes, I agree. No reason to leave him off at all if there is any chance he can play, even if only to PH.

BMX Bandit said:

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loperfido + a taste of mexico will be the springboard for the playoff run.

need to win at about 59% clip to hit 88 wins.

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Kikuchi - Loperfido + Mexico.