No, he doesn't.texasaggie2015 said:
Okay then. Maybe you know something I don't.
***** 2024 Houston Astros Season Thread ***** [Staff Warning]
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Last: 4 days ago by jkag89
Seems like Brown is very good at evaluating talent, particularly in terms of depth (Caratini, Tayler Scott). If he drafts as well as his background indicates, we should not collapse into a rebuild. The problem seems to be Crane making the expensive big-splash signings that hamstring the club.texasaggie2015 said:
Nothing gets done without Crane's approval. Brown had to convince him to sign off on the Caratini signing.
MaxPower said:No, he doesn't.texasaggie2015 said:
Okay then. Maybe you know something I don't.
That makes us even
Here's @keithlaw on what the Astros gave up for Yusei Kikuchi - https://t.co/hcMfw1lP0b
— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) July 30, 2024
You're right. I know nothing.
Except that it's not self preservation as he will be judged based upon these trades and if they go sideways, he'll be fired for them and won't be hired by another team for the same job.MaxPower said:Seems more like Crane says get us a SP or your ass is fired. At that point he did whatever he had to do for self preservation.AggiEE said:texasaggie2015 said:
How do you know that? Because that's literally the opposite of every other trade that's happened the last couple years.
You think Crane is the guy on the phones calling teams and discussing specific players?
I doubt it's just some coincidence that Click hasn't been able to get a GM job since being released after winning a WS. I'm not saying that there isn't a Crane component to the baffling moves...but I think the GMs are being victimized more than they should and share a lot of the blame.
Yes, drafting only helps so much if you are going to trade those guys for rentals. I don't know what will make Crane wake up. Maybe in a few years when one of the guys we traded the past few years is an All Star he will think, "sure would be nice to have that guy" but by that point we will likely be in the downward spiral.
Farmer1906 said:
Why do we need to replace Tucker next year? If/when we do have some options in Cabbage, Leon, Melton, Baez, Kole, Corona, & Barber. All ranked in our top 20.
And we have Tucker next year no matter what
Click is a prime example that you may not get another shot at GM. Anyone looking at Dana would likely know this wasn't his decision anyway so this trade likely has limited stink on his resume. He's worse off looking like someone an owner can't work with by telling owners to eff off when they tell him to make a deal.
MaxPower said:
Click is a prime example that you may not get another shot at GM. Anyone looking at Dana would likely know this wasn't his decision anyway so this trade likely has limited stink on his resume. He's worse off looking like someone an owner can't work with by telling owners to eff off when they tell him to make a deal.
How is it NOT his decision?
Why are we making **** up, he's the damn GM that negotiated the trade, of which there are plenty of other possible trades
This might actually be the biggest repercussion of Lunhow breaking Jim's trust.texasaggie2015 said:I know I'm beating a dead horse but you guys strongly overestimate how much free reign he has and underestimate just how much Jim Crane calls the shots behind the scenes.gigemJTH12 said:
the one trade doesnt end the dynasty.
but its just another piece of proof that Dana is not the guy.
If this dynasty was going to stay alive after this season we would need a wizard of a GM to pull it off.
pretty clear we dont
Lunhow did a lot of good for the organization, but man, he's left some bodies in the wake of his failure over the cheating stuff.
Dude I am not making things up just to make things up lmao
I've said the same thing for years on this thread
I've said the same thing for years on this thread
I think what this might prove is we need a head of baseball Ops/President etc. whatever you want to call it.
Someone who Crane trusts and believes and won't let him sell the farm. And then let Dana keep drafting and evaluating talent.
Someone who Crane trusts and believes and won't let him sell the farm. And then let Dana keep drafting and evaluating talent.
texasaggie2015 said:
Dude I am not making things up just to make things up lmao
I've said the same thing for years on this thread
Please ignore him and put on mute so you don't leave us all in this time of need.
Don't have stars unfortunately
This was strongly considered over the offseason actually. It sounded like it was going to happen but I'm not sure what changed.
Did you literally not read two years ago where Crane stepped in and stopped Click from trading Urquidy for Wilson Contreras?AggiEE said:MaxPower said:
Click is a prime example that you may not get another shot at GM. Anyone looking at Dana would likely know this wasn't his decision anyway so this trade likely has limited stink on his resume. He's worse off looking like someone an owner can't work with by telling owners to eff off when they tell him to make a deal.
How is it NOT his decision?
Why are we making **** up, he's the damn GM that negotiated the trade, of which there are plenty of other possible trades
Dana and Click do and did not have free reign.
You're also making **** up if you think Dana does have complete free reign.
Of course this is Dana, but make no mistake, Crane would have nixed the hell out of the trade if he didn't agree with it.
This is where the Astros deserve the most criticism. @astro_numbers hit the nail on the head. pic.twitter.com/MjeoYBhhwg
— The Crawfish Boxes (@CrawfishBoxes) July 30, 2024
texasaggie2015 said:
Dude I am not making things up just to make things up lmao
I've said the same thing for years on this thread
Getting morsels of Info is good, even if those providing it to you are not always right or fully in the know. No need to defend yourself, and definitely no need to get worked up by a couple of perpetually half-empty glasses.
In other words- sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it rains.
Beat40 said:Did you literally not read two years ago where Crane stepped in and stopped Click from trading Urquidy for Wilson Contreras?AggiEE said:MaxPower said:
Click is a prime example that you may not get another shot at GM. Anyone looking at Dana would likely know this wasn't his decision anyway so this trade likely has limited stink on his resume. He's worse off looking like someone an owner can't work with by telling owners to eff off when they tell him to make a deal.
How is it NOT his decision?
Why are we making **** up, he's the damn GM that negotiated the trade, of which there are plenty of other possible trades
Dana and Click do and did not have free reign.
You're also making **** up if you think Dana does have complete free reign.
Of course this is Dana, but make no mistake, Crane would have nixed the hell out of the trade if he didn't agree with it.
Crane may have final approval but there's no way he's calling other GMs and negotiating specifics until something is ready to veto or approve
Crane deserves some blame for approving this trade, but so does Brown for putting it all together and presenting it to Crane as an acceptable package
Here's a situation for you...
You don't think Click is on the other end telling the Jays GM 'Man Dana is not running that show. He's handcuffed by Jim. If Jim wants a starter he'll give you whatever you ask for. Tell him we need Bloss, Lop, and Wagner or this is dead.'
They used their leverage perfectly to take advantage of both our need and their inside knowledge of our front office dynamics with a meddling owner.
So yeah Dana did negotiate it but he had to do it without the leverage as a result of Crane.
You don't think Click is on the other end telling the Jays GM 'Man Dana is not running that show. He's handcuffed by Jim. If Jim wants a starter he'll give you whatever you ask for. Tell him we need Bloss, Lop, and Wagner or this is dead.'
They used their leverage perfectly to take advantage of both our need and their inside knowledge of our front office dynamics with a meddling owner.
So yeah Dana did negotiate it but he had to do it without the leverage as a result of Crane.
The only odd thing to me about this is that Kikuchi is not a "big" or "sexy" name.
If Crane were going to force a trade regardless of cost or wisdom, I would think he would have forced a bigger/worse trade for Snell or Crochet. There is no question that Crane likes the big names.
If Crane were going to force a trade regardless of cost or wisdom, I would think he would have forced a bigger/worse trade for Snell or Crochet. There is no question that Crane likes the big names.
No, this is bull**** retrospection.EastCoastAgNc said:This is where the Astros deserve the most criticism. @astro_numbers hit the nail on the head. pic.twitter.com/MjeoYBhhwg
— The Crawfish Boxes (@CrawfishBoxes) July 30, 2024
There is no contingency plan for losing 3 starters for the year, and 1 for a good portion of the year. None. You don't sign starters because you plan on losing 3 guys before the season starts.
The rotation and options for the rotation going into the year were:
Framber, JV, CJ, France, Urquidy, Blanco, Brown, and even Bielak. Spencer was tossed around as a competitor for a roster spot with the spring training he had.
You can ***** about the Astros not signing another start all you want, but it's bull**** to say the organization failed on "starter depth" when your team loses 4/5 of the starting rotation. There is no contingency plan for that.
The damn Dodgers are doing the same damn thing.
This right here! Click knows our farm and that's what bothers me. He knew exactly what he was doing.
EXACTLY who he was asking for and how to play the leverage. I'd bet he initially asked for even more with this level package being the intended target.
EXACTLY who he was asking for and how to play the leverage. I'd bet he initially asked for even more with this level package being the intended target.
Crane should have offered Stearns whatever he wanted for that role.
cj2512
To add to it: if you wanted to add a starter before the beginning of the year to try to make your rotation elite, fine. Ok. Would have put us in luxury tax hell, but I get that argument.Beat40 said:No, this is bull**** retrospection.EastCoastAgNc said:This is where the Astros deserve the most criticism. @astro_numbers hit the nail on the head. pic.twitter.com/MjeoYBhhwg
— The Crawfish Boxes (@CrawfishBoxes) July 30, 2024
There is no contingency plan for losing 3 starters for the year, and 1 for a good portion of the year. None. You don't sign starters because you plan on losing 3 guys before the season starts.
The rotation and options for the rotation going into the year were:
Framber, JV, CJ, France, Urquidy, Blanco, Brown, and even Bielak. Spencer was tossed around as a competitor for a roster spot with the spring training he had.
You can ***** about the Astros not signing another start all you want, but it's bull**** to say the organization failed on "starter depth" when your team loses 4/5 of the starting rotation. There is no contingency plan for that.
The damn Dodgers are doing the same damn thing.
But, what this guy fails to take into account is the pitching depth is actively being used to have your team be tied for 1st and playing over .500 while 4/5 of the rotation is gone. Most other teams aside from us and the Dodgers are battling for last place in the division if that happens to them. If that isn't pitching depth, what the hell is it?
Wasn't it reported he wasn't interested? Maybe he knew how Crane was as wellcj2512 said:
Crane should have offered Stearns whatever he wanted for that role.
cj2512 said:
Crane should have offered Stearns whatever he wanted for that role.
Don't think he wanted to comer here over the Mets & Crane wasn't willing to fork over control.
This trade was clearly meant to bring more Asians to Minute Maid.
Wait. I just remembered that Click ended up in that Toronto FO. That makes this fleecing make much more sense. And in many ways much worse.
Crane did this to himself.
Crane did this to himself.
I just looked up and confirmed that the sky isn't falling. Good trades and bad trades happen all the time. Time always tell how they play out. Get over it. Move on. Go Stros!
I've had a chance to sleep on it -- and I still think the trade is **** overall. BUT -- bottom line is this: We got an additional veteran pitcher to take some of the strain off our young arms.
Kikuchi will be a bridge to JV and LuAce coming back. They are behind schedule, but both throwing from the mound.
As for what we gave up:
Bloss -- he may or may not pan out. He was a high prospect IN OUR SYSTEM, and our system right now is low. He was a so-called star in our system because he was a high draft choice, but he may be middling in middle-of-the-road farm systems. He has upside and value, but let's not act like in the overall scheme of things in MLB that he was a major, major prospect.
Loperfido -- he had great stuff that he brought to the table, but we are loaded with OF prospects. We have a surplus. He's a great guy and great teammate, but he has holes in his game. As others have pointed out, we have Melton, Leon, Matthews and others in the minors. We don't have to really worry about OF because we have Meyers, Chas and Tucker for next year. It's not a "Wow" OF, but it will be a good bridge until one or some of the prospects are ready.
Wagner -- he was not going to be a starter in the bigs. He was organizational depth.
Remember, we have a ton coming off the books next year. We will also sign FAs in the offseason to help bridge.
Dana is a good talent evaluator. We've seen that. Remember when we traded Korey Lee? Some were upset we gave him up. He's hitting .216 for the White Sox this year with an OPS of .613. Moving him cleared room for Diaz.
This trade trimmed organizational fat with an overpay. Loperfido and Wagner were expendable because of Dezenzo, Melton and Matthews. Leon is getting a look to see if he will stick. If not -- he will be out too.
This is not an organizational-crushing or dynasty-ending trade. This was a move -- again an overpay -- to fill a need from areas of surplus.
Kikuchi will be a bridge to JV and LuAce coming back. They are behind schedule, but both throwing from the mound.
As for what we gave up:
Bloss -- he may or may not pan out. He was a high prospect IN OUR SYSTEM, and our system right now is low. He was a so-called star in our system because he was a high draft choice, but he may be middling in middle-of-the-road farm systems. He has upside and value, but let's not act like in the overall scheme of things in MLB that he was a major, major prospect.
Loperfido -- he had great stuff that he brought to the table, but we are loaded with OF prospects. We have a surplus. He's a great guy and great teammate, but he has holes in his game. As others have pointed out, we have Melton, Leon, Matthews and others in the minors. We don't have to really worry about OF because we have Meyers, Chas and Tucker for next year. It's not a "Wow" OF, but it will be a good bridge until one or some of the prospects are ready.
Wagner -- he was not going to be a starter in the bigs. He was organizational depth.
Remember, we have a ton coming off the books next year. We will also sign FAs in the offseason to help bridge.
Dana is a good talent evaluator. We've seen that. Remember when we traded Korey Lee? Some were upset we gave him up. He's hitting .216 for the White Sox this year with an OPS of .613. Moving him cleared room for Diaz.
This trade trimmed organizational fat with an overpay. Loperfido and Wagner were expendable because of Dezenzo, Melton and Matthews. Leon is getting a look to see if he will stick. If not -- he will be out too.
This is not an organizational-crushing or dynasty-ending trade. This was a move -- again an overpay -- to fill a need from areas of surplus.
And thinking about it more -- I'm more angry that Pressly gave up yet another run and Hader gave up a dinger to Michael A. Taylor that cost us the game last night.
cj2512 said:
Crane should have offered Stearns whatever he wanted for that role.
Stearns grew up a Met fan, Cohen wanted him and was going to pay him whatever he wanted.
Agree 100%. People seem to underestimate the volume of pitching injuries we've had.Beat40 said:No, this is bull**** retrospection.EastCoastAgNc said:This is where the Astros deserve the most criticism. @astro_numbers hit the nail on the head. pic.twitter.com/MjeoYBhhwg
— The Crawfish Boxes (@CrawfishBoxes) July 30, 2024
There is no contingency plan for losing 3 starters for the year, and 1 for a good portion of the year. None. You don't sign starters because you plan on losing 3 guys before the season starts.
The rotation and options for the rotation going into the year were:
Framber, JV, CJ, France, Urquidy, Blanco, Brown, and even Bielak. Spencer was tossed around as a competitor for a roster spot with the spring training he had.
You can ***** about the Astros not signing another start all you want, but it's bull**** to say the organization failed on "starter depth" when your team loses 4/5 of the starting rotation. There is no contingency plan for that.
The damn Dodgers are doing the same damn thing.
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